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Bull Trout?

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4.8K views 30 replies 18 participants last post by  mammoth69  
#1 ·
As mentioned in an earlier post I am re-reading A H Chaytors book, Letters To a Salmon Fishers Sons in which he makes many a mention of the Bull Trout. What the hell are these fish? I thought they must be big brownies but no, he mentions Brownies as another species. Describes the female fish as colouring up before spawning whilst the males take on the look of an enormous yellowy brown trout. When he finds the remains of an otter's meal he guesses it to be either a salmon or a large bull trout. He even includes them in his catch list, 3 salmon, 1 bull trout and 2 seatrout.
 
#2 ·
They are char. Related to the brook trout, arctic char, etc. They are VERY close in relation to the arctic char and the species only diverged in the last Ice Age.

They inhabit cold, clean streams and rivers of the northern Rocky Mountains, basically from Montana/Idaho north to the southwest corner of the Yukon and will sometimes migrate to the ocean in certain coastal rivers in Washington and British Columbia.

They are at the top end of the food chain in the mountain streams and river, eating primarily fish such as whitefish and trout. In coastal river they feed primarily upon salmon parr and smolt.

Here is a fair specimen I caught. This is the only one of mine Ice apparently put online. They get much bigger.

Image
 
#3 · (Edited)
Was he writing about a British or Irish water? If so, he was referring to the 'slob' trout. Some call it the bull trout. It's basically an estuarine brown trout. I don't think it develops chloride cells like seatrout, hence its inability to tolerate full sea water.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Chaytor was a Tyne fisher and the Tyne has long been known for it's estuarine trout called slob or bull trout. These fish drop into the estuary to feed and grow before running back upriver to spawn. They were distinct from the proper sea run fish. I have no idea if they are still encountered.

When Chatytor was writing all the many varieties of brown trout were treated as seperate species, a point of view which was gradually discredited by scientists who said they were all varieties of the same species. Funnily enough these days other scientists are coming round to the view that these scientists were wrong and the Victorians correct as genetic profiling is showing distinct differences. whether or not these differences are significant enough to warrant seperate species designation is still being debated. Isn't science wonderful!

SP8
 
#9 ·
Interesting stuff,I've seen these fish mentioned on the Coquet,the Aln and the Tyne of course and I'm thinking I've seen em mentioned on the Tweed too.
I always presumed they were sea trout but after seeing this post I'm inclined to go with slob trout,I've read stuff about em running late in October and there runs of large fish at this time.
I'm a little confused as I read an article in T&S about a race of large sea trout that run the Tweed and other nearby rivers,the author said how they not targeted as such and he believed these fish after tracking them still follow the great north river of wich the Tweed and Thames ect were tributarys,these fish have been found off Holland.

He believed these large fish to be Bull trout and said they had a legendary status not unlike steelhead for their fighting prowess.
 
#10 ·
There's no doubt the north-east rivers have a run of very large sea-trout. On the Tweed I doubt they are targetted and are probably caught as a salmon by-catch. Probably the same on the Tyne. The Coquet fish certainly are targetted (catching them is another matter as I know from personal experience years ago!) As far as I am aware these are sea-trout though and don't colour like Chaytors description of Bull trout. The Tyne for one gets a very late run of seatrout into November so obviously they don't get fished for.
I too read an interesting piece somewhere years ago about the races of seatrout around our coast and the differences between them. Wish I knew where because I'd like to read it again. We may well be observing evolution in progress although from our admittedly tiny human time frame. One of the things that can lead to speciation is geographical separation,i.e. the inabilty for different groups to breed due to a geographical barrier or choice of spawning area as is the case with the diffeent types of trout in Lough Melvin for one.
Of course there has been so much meddling by man with regard to stocking that we may have altered the whole process. who knows?

SP8
 
#12 ·
Your right regarding Tweed sea trout not being targeted. I have only heard of a few half hearted attempts by anglers to go after these specifically. Coquet and Aln fish are rightly enough fished for and have a very good average size. Double figure fish not being anything special.
There was a video posted on here recently made by the Tweed foundation explaining all about this sea trout sub species. Migration patern etc etc. Was quite an interesting watch. It's probably on the tweed commission website and ill have a look later for it.
 
#11 ·
That last paragraph above raises a good point. Prior to the national obsession with stocking there were so many varieties of our indigenous brown trout that have all but died out now. My own little river Bourne (tributary of the Test) carried a native brown that was almost silver in colour. A 2lb fish was the fish of a lifetime. In the 20's they began stocking with disasterous results.........all gone in a couple of years.

The Spey certainly carries salmon with varying characteristics. A Spey fish is heavy around the shoulders and deep. Those that leave the Spey to run the Avon are leaner and more evenly proportioned. Those that leave the Avon and run the Livet, a tumbling little stream are known locally as Livet Darts, sharper, leaner and more capable of wiggling up stream!
Fascinating stuff!
 
#19 ·
You said it,mega interesting!

Love that about the different Spey fish,I'll bet the Tay will have its own different race again,certainly I've heard it said that Tay springers are something,what about the Lochy there are large early fish and a later running fish that have a very high average size,30 lb fish are not uncommon on this river.
We can see the same thing with brown trout as well,loch Leven fish being a famous example as they were used to stock distant lands.

So it must go without saying that sea trout must differ too,there's been a fascinating survey on the rivers of north Wales and the Menai,clear different groups of fish with some staying within range of their respective rivers and yet there was another group that high tailed it off to Ireland for the richer feeding,these fish would come back much larger I'd of thought?
 
#13 ·
The following from The Fishermans Vade Mecum ,...... G.W Maunsell.

" The name Bull Trout is applied to different species in different localities by different people. For instance the slob or estuary trout which by reason of frequent spawning have become coarse, big and spotted, are in some places called bull trout. In some Scottish rivers salmon on a second or third spawning journey are called bull trout. In some localities these fish are incorrectly called Salmo Eriox.

The true bull trout ( or round tail) is just a type of sea trout . It is not a separate variety at all.

Tate Regan and Nall consider that there are two types of sea trout , viz:

1. The sea trout that goes far out to sea, to the good fishing grounds , where they feed largely and rapidly become sea trout of abnormal growth . These are the true bull trout which one meets in such rivers as Tweed, Coquet etc.

2. The other type is the sea trout of ordinary growth , whose range in the sea is limited.

In appearance a bull trout is a deep fish, looks short and stubby, is much spotted , the tail is almost square, and often convex. The flesh is a sort of faded pinkish yellow colour; it is dry, rather insipid with muddy taste.

A bull trout plays heavy , slow and deep, he seldom takes a fly or lure near the surface . You seldom see a small one, just as you seldom see a small Salmo Ferox."
 
#14 ·
Interesting post GM. So the term has been applied to completely different fish at various times and locations. Rather leaves the OP in the air as to what Chaytor was referring too. I shall have to re-visit my copy and see if it makes sense. From his description quoted above my money would still be on a slob trout and not a properly sea fed fish as described in one of the quotes above.
It just goes to show that language is only any good for communicating with if you know what the other person is talking about!

SP8
 
#15 ·
My grandfather always used to refer to Bull Trout as a massive brownie that has developed more then a passing taste for other trout and feasts on them like a pike. He always said they had massive heads which gave them the name Bull Trout and he claims to have caught a few in the Wansbeck from 5lb-7lb. None of this seems to be in line with how Chaytor portrayed them.
 
#16 ·
Indeed and it appears one mans Bull Trout could be another mans Ferox Trout.
 
#17 ·
My understanding of a bull trout is a large, late running sea-trout. They're supposed to be sandy colour, not to be avid takers and not to be great eating. I've caught a few over the years on the Tyne and Coquet that fit the description, although I can't vouch for their culinary value.

They had a reputation for eating juvenile salmon, as a result of which they were trapped and removed from the Coquet. Grimble talks about them at some length in "The Salmon and Sea Trout Rivers of England and Wales".
 
#18 ·
Ah now then this sounds like it to me,I've seen pics of these large sandy coloured looking sea trout from the Tweed caught by salmon anglers and the Tyne,the article I mentioned from a 1990s T&S said they were different from the large early running Till fish he also suggested there was an untapped potential in these fish.
 
#22 ·
I remember when i used to help look after the fishing on loch venachar (near callander), there was a few clubs from ayrshire who fished the loch in the spring. Some of those guys used to refer to "bull trout" with regards to some of their catch. I took it they meant brownies of a certain size? Maybe someone on the forum from that area who may have fished with the hyster club would know?
 
#23 ·
I'm a regular on the coquet and have also had some decent sea trout over the years, I and a few others on the river tend to call the large late run sea trout "bullies" or "bull trout". They are a sandy colour with black tails, and very hard to catch. Double figure fish are caught every year but are in decline. A bloke I know had one just over 20lb a couple of years back, there is a picture of it on northumbrian anglers federation website
 
#26 ·
I well remember looking over the footbridge that was at the top of the Fed water at Warkworth years ago and seeing about half a dozen of these monsters all in the upper teens of pounds. Unfortunately they didnt like anything I put in front of them. None of my friends would believe so when the 20 plus fish was in T&S you can imagine my pleasure in showing them. Sorry to hear they are in decline but that seems to be the case all round with that lovely little river.

SP8
 
#28 · (Edited)
P D Malloch in fact. Espespecially mentioned The Coquet as one of The rivers with these oversized seatrout. " they have all the same number of s:cales, fourteen from the adipose fin to the lateral line". And " ..., but are more plentiful in the Coquet and in the Tweed than in any other river I know of." both page 151 by the way.

He also mentions that The Coquet was more or less destroyed as a salmon river by a lot of weirs. But still held a lot of habitat for seatrout. ,
 
#29 ·
When I first fished the Coquet in the 1980's it was a good salmon river although there were problems with weirs at the top of the tide and Acklington in particular but it still had a very good spring run from Feb 1st (sadly virtually gone now by all accounts). I hope the giant seatrout are still there.

SP8
 
#31 ·
The Bull Trout



A bull trout, showing the pale sandy coloration and bold spotting that help camouflage the fish in the murky water of an estuary. The heavy build results from a diet of fish fry and crustaceans.
Specimen study/watercolour

A variety of brown trout that was almost wiped out by pollution, the bull or 'slob' trout was classified as Salmo eriox, a species in its own right, by the early 19th century taxonomist William Yarrell in A History of British Fish (1841). Yarrell identified it on the basis of quite small anatomical features in the gill cover and tail structure. When other naturalists obtained specimens, the arguments began. Some remarked that the bull trout they had examined were ordinary sea trout; others that they were river brown trout. In retrospect it seems that the published descriptions of the bull trout - though precise enough in terms of body structure - missed one vital point: the most distinctive feature of the fish- was its behaviour.

In the 19th and early 20th century, the bull trout was frequently seen in three rivers of northeast England and southeast Scotland: the Tweed, Tyne and Coquet. Writing in 1885, Scottish game angler Lord Home wrote: 'The bull trout has increased in numbers in the Tweed prodigiously within the last forty years, and to that increase I attribute the decrease of salmon trout.... The bull trout take the river at two seasons. The first shoal come up about the end of April and May. They are then small, weighing from two to four or five pounds. The second, and by far the most numerous shoal, come late in November. They then come up in thousands, and are not only in fine condition, but of much larger size, weighing from six to twenty pounds.'

Close observation finally revealed that the bull trout is a river brown trout that migrates downstream after spawning to live in the tidal estuary. Unlike sea trout, the bull trout does not go through a smolt stage, because it can cope with the brackish waters of the estuary without making the physiological adaptations needed for survival in sea water. Bull trout normally take on a sandy coloration which blends with the colour of the estuary water and substrate, just as river and lake brown trout become camouflaged to the waters that they inhabit.

Where the river is very clean from source to estuary, bull trout parrs will move down to the estuary to feed in the brackish water just as other brown trout move to the lower freshwater reaches. Clean river estuaries are often more productive than the higher freshwater reaches, with shoals of sea fish fry, shrimps, shore crabs, molluscs and marine worms. So trout that do move down to the estuary grow much larger and attain a more portly bull-like shape than those that remain in freshwater.

Where an estuary becomes polluted, no trout can stay there through the spring and summer months, even though sea-going trout might be able to run quickly to and from the open sea. So few rivers in Europe have estuarine bull trout today. Some, like the Tyne, lost virtually all their bull trout when the estuaries became polluted early in the 20th century. But where pollution has been cleaned away, bull trout are gradually returning to some estuaries. Today they are occasionally seen not only in the Tweed, Tyne and Coquet, but in the clean sandy rivers of north and west Scotland, Wales, northwest England, Ireland and Norway.






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