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Springer breed with springer. MMMMM ???

2K views 15 replies 8 participants last post by  nickolas 
#1 ·
This was one of the thoughts when C@R was first brought in to save the spring stock. No fished to be killed before 1st April.
The thinking on this was thoughts that springer spawned with springer.
Well from a grilse being caught and tagged on the Dee, in August, then the same fish caught as a fresh spring fish the next year in March, kinda blows that theory out the window.
I was given this info by a well respected Dee gillie.
I wonder if their will be any thoughts on changing the c@r dates ?
 
#2 ·
The thinking on this was thoughts that springer spawned with springer.

I wonder if their will be any thoughts on changing the c@r dates ?
Not many thinking people actually ever agreed (or believed in) with the springer spawning with springer to produce springer theory and;
No chance, more likely to be extended to 100% C & R than reduced or modified.
 
#4 · (Edited)
I believe traditional salmon game fishing, as practised in the past, even with the very high levels of voluntary c & r in its latter days, will soon become completely extinct with no way back when the process is complete. Salmon fishing will become another branch of pure sports fishing where the fish is only considered as a plaything.

In Scotland this process is already well advanced and is not only most likely irreversible regardless of future stock levels but will eventually reach an end point where it will be completely politically unacceptable to deliberately kill and eat some of your catch. It will become similar to coarse fishing where the venom on social media, directed at anyone who dares kills an odd pike or perch to eat, can border on hysteria. Even in sea angling I can see the buds of the same movement beginning to appear.

The angling media , government organisations , SCS., fishery owners / employees , celebrity anglers and possibly now the majority of salmon anglers, as older traditional game anglers depart the pastime for various reasons, are pushing hard for this end point imo.
 
#3 · (Edited)
There was a spring radio tagging scheme on the Ribble a few years ago. Done over three years every springer (whole run upto end of May) that went through the fish pass and trap at Waddow (100% of run goes through fish pass, inpassable else) and it proved springers breed with later running fish, if fact I don't recall hearing of any two springers breeding together.
 
#5 ·
Im kind of on the thinking this C@R restriction has come from USA. Weve accepted it with open arms, and put silly storys about springer , springer thoughts out their, and more.
I fish in BC, and now to even lift the fish head out the water is near war. Like the other post mentioned, we got be very careful we dont turn it solely into a play thing.
 
#6 ·
It's an amazingly widely adhered to dogma, despite there being not an ounce of reasonable evidence to support it. I was once a "release springers to breed more springers" zealot. I've now actually stopped to look at the evidence and believe that a, springers don't breed springers: salmon just breed salmon, and b, CR cannot make the tiniest difference from a stock enhancement point of view. The compulsory return of early running fish is doubly fruitless. Sadly common sense or evidence or any other inconvenient facts will be ignored or shouted down.
 
#10 ·
Beginning to doubt C&R



I quite agree, the more I see and hear about C&R the less I am convinced it helps with propping up the runs.
However, as to springers, I believe they are bound for the top of the river system, these often large fish enter the river early in the year, eg the Tay where these large fresh fish are often caught in the west end of the loch in the opening few days. I do not believe springers necessarily breed with springers, nature takes control here.

M
 
G
#12 ·
Is it possible that fish which spawn in the headwaters were born in those same headwaters, and that the females simply return to the main river at different times than the males? Of course, there will be straying within river systems as well as between river systems. So maybe there is no pattern of springer mating with springer because that is not what we would expect if males and females born in the same burn return to the main river at different times?

I think someone else posted that spring fish are predominantly female while autumn fish are male. I might have it completely wrong though, apologies if I have.
Could it be that fewer females (spring fish) return because they have different drivers for survival and passing on genes? A female might stay at sea for much longer because laying many more eggs is definitely beneficial in terms of passing on genes, even if there is a higher mortality rate from that extra year or two at sea, which may not have always been the case, while a male fish may stay at sea for a much shorter period because, well, once you have enough jizz then get your ass up river and get the job done is the best way of passing on genes.

I expect exceptions of course, as there always is in nature so I'm talking in general terms.
 
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