River Wye 2023

Who was it who said madness was doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results?!!!

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peterchilton said:

looks a bit murky steve. Maybe you should report it to NRW/EA/WUF and they will send someone for a sample and report back next year.

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steved said:

Can’t be arsed

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Richardgw said:

For those who like a bit of light (heavy) reading the report which suggests the possibility of banning salmon angling in Wales is attached. But where do they says this? Well try the following section, their words in itallics:

Page 46 – 2nd bullet point
However, there are few examples in Wales of permanently lost salmon and sea-trout populations, and several formerly depleted stocks have recovered from very low levels. Salmon populations may recover from complete extirpation if limiting factors and environmental constraints (including fishing) are removed, and if neighbouring populations remain healthy, due to metapopulation dynamics and natural recolonizsation.

But looking at this report in detail they (NRW) clearly say in black and white they haven’t got a clue as to the actual size of the populations. Here is a few more extracts, their words again in italics.

Page 29 – last but one paragraph – half way down
Apart from various limitations and assumptions made by different estimation methods, one reason for this uncertainty is that it is notoriously difficult to get an accurate census of the number of salmon or trout in a stream. Salmonid census size has been approximated variously from catch data (corrected for exploitation and reporting rates, and survival), from counts at fish traps or counters, or from juvenile densities extrapolated from comparatively few sampling sites. None of these methods are particularly reliable for large streams, or take into account the contribution of mature male parr, and with the possible exception of a few reference streams with good monitoring data (e.g. Girnock Burn in Scotland, River Dee in Wales), they rarely provide accurate estimates of census size necessary to properly calibrate Ne/Nc.

Page 33 – last paragraph
One problem with the use of CL (Conservation Limits) is that, as with most reference points, it is based on models, rather than on empirical data

Page 42 – last paragraph
Rod catches alone may not adequately reflect the size of salmon populations particularly when they are small. Also - The relationship between rod catch and abundance is typically unknown

Page 43 – 2nd paragraph
Although rod catch data provides essential information on the trends of salmon and trout fisheries and have the added merit of being available for most rivers over relatively long periods, such data can have important shortcomings as indicators of stock abundance and need to be interpreted with caution, particularly if no information is available on fishing effort. Rod catches alone may not adequately reflect the size of salmon populations, particularly if these are small, because rod catches depend on fishing effort and vulnerability to capture, both influenced by environment, especially river flow and temperature

Page 47 – 2nd bullet point
Data from rod catches, and to some extent also from juvenile surveys, are inherently noisy, particularly for small populations, and simulations indicate that many years may be required to detect declines of salmon and trout.

All in all a money spinner for the legal profession, assuming the fishery owners will, if the NRW try to introduce a ban, challenge them in court, especially when it come to the English section of the river.

A further look at what the NRW and their predecessors have done over the 20+ years past. There is angling restrictions, then er oh, angling restrictions, then shortening the fishing season; oh, they have also done a bit of river gardening and of course lots of monitoring.

Who was it who said madness was doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results?!!!

So what should they be doing? Well quite simply follow the model of the River Skjern in Denmark, which now must be the premier European salmon river.

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OURTREV said:

In the light of our experience over recent years your response is quite understandable. At the same time regrettably perhaps that is exactly the response that the likes of the EA/NRW want and I don't mean any sort of criticism of you Steve. I'm as bad as I have seen it this morning. 😒

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steved said:

No criticism taken Trev , I sent the video to Simon Evans last night so WUF know about it
Upper Bigsweir has NRW down on it for next 3 days tagging shad so they will see it first hand.

Nathan is ring Glynn at Luggsmouth to see what it’s like above the Lugg if I had a fiver to gamble that would be my source

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peterchilton said:

Simon Evans - what bloom

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CovMark said:

Nathan reporting pretty grim algae bloom at upper bigsweir- still catching the odd one at Wyesham though

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golantman said:

The meetings are so full of self indulgence and self praise that they do not and unfortunately do not want to hear the voice of the everyday mortal angler

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steved said:

You will see for yourself tomorrow if you are still going it’s poor at best , in shallower water it doesn’t look that bad Wyesham have a lot of thinner water over stones so visibility is improved as there is no depth , go into deeper water and it’s like soup

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golantman said:

According to companies house WUF has twelve trustees,they include

Jonathan Fiennes Bengough,address west end farm,leominster

Charles Berseford parry de Winton,address Ty Mawr farm,also a director of Breconshire agricultural society

Fiona Margaret hollman,occupation farmer

Alan Phillip Johnson,occupation farmer

Richard Lawrence Norman,occupation farmer.
Mmmmmm?

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