[keirross]

Are you using salmon or timber as an eco example?

That is basically what they are calling for here in Northern Ireland.

They are calling for triple the amount of trees planted than what currently is being planted.

Of course the timber producers are suggesting that that's a great idea but slow growing trees are next to useless and we should be growing trees for the timber industry. They want the planting carried out on a 75% to 25% ratio of timber producing trees to slow growing varieties.

Of course they say all the correct buzz words of "Jobs", "the economy", "helping to keep the cost of timber down for local builders", etc.

The Joe Bloggs of this world simply dont know any better so would support this without batting an eyelid.

 

[Jockiescott]

What I mean is that the push for "more forests" could be hijacked by timber companies to make more problems for our rivers.

The general public are completely unaware just how dead and desolate that pine plantations are for example.

 

[fishfan]

The aerial scene of an upland area devoid of trees was startling. These areas are just deserts, how folk can think that is acceptable is beyond me. I think the reasons for having trees was explained clearly and they are without doubt required, not just for salmon but wildlife in general.
I am 100% behind the concept and have been for a very long time.

 

[keirross]

What I mean is that the push for "more forests" could be hijacked by timber companies to make more problems for our rivers.

The general public are completely unaware just how dead and desolate that pine plantations are for example.

Most folk dont realise because theve been conditioned to not even know. Even about a hyphen As about how todays' NHS Scotland 17% increase

 

[fishfan]

I think people can nit pick about the programme and pick out segments they dont like, but I believe the overall message is a good one. I would like to hear alternative sustainable solutions to help the environment from those who fundamentally disagree with the film.

 

[keirstream]

The general public are completely unaware just how dead and desolate that pine plantations are for example.

The first time I really became aware of the deadening of pinewood afforested ground was on the upper Reelin in the 70s.
This was the very 1st time I had fished the Finn, which itself was far too big to fish that day. So, my friend, an Irish priest, Collum Morris, who had invited me across for a few days, took me up the Reelin.
The environment in the forest floor was absolutely dead, desolate. It stunk of pine needles and spewed acid into the river via the myriad of drainage ditches. The water was sour, full of acid.
I have no issue with Lowland rivers planting low level bushes to shade nursery burns, Highland rivers are doing well enough with none.
However, blanket afforestation is nothing but a sham and trying to paint it as environmentally friendly is a disgraceful deception. People who blindly buy into it need to do a bit more research on the subject and not get sucked into blatant commercial propaganda narrated by some tinpot celebrety who is clearly only in it for the cash.

 

[Jockiescott]

The first time I really became aware of the deadening of pinewood afforested ground was on the upper Reelin in the 70s.
This was the very 1st time I had fished the Finn, which itself was far too big to fish that day. So, my friend, an Irish priest, Collum Morris, who had invited me across for a few days, took me up the Reelin.
The environment in the forest floor was absolutely dead, desolate. It stunk of pine needles and spewed acid into the river via the myriad of drainage ditches. The water was sour, full of acid.
I have no issue with Lowland rivers planting low level bushes to shade nursery burns, Highland rivers are doing well enough with none.
However, blanket afforestation is nothing but a sham and trying to paint it as environmentally friendly is a disgraceful deception. People who blindly buy into it need to do a bit more research on the subject and not get sucked into blatant commercial propaganda narrated by some tinpot celebrety who is clearly only in it for the cash.

100% correct.

I really wasn't aware how bad they were myself until I walked through a planted pine forest up the Glen from me. I had been up not long after the trees were planted but it wasn't for a long time after it that I was back there. It was shocking.

I had the dog with me and was walking down a break between the trees. When the dog went into the trees he just disappeared. It was so dark within the trees themselves. I put him on the lead again very quickly.

I then walked about 10 yards into the trees and just stood and listened. There wasn't a sound. Not a bird, not a breath of wind and so dark. It was such an eerie feeling.

The ground beneath the trees was like a desert. Nothing can grow with no light penetrating the trees and its just a mass of dead pine needles. Other than the drainage ditches running to the burn below, the ground is featureless.

I was glad to get out of the trees again. No matter what way you looked, everything just looked the same. It felt extremely claustrophobic.

If that is classed as "environmentally friendly", I really don't know. To me it was absolutely sickening.

 

[400]

The film is just another example of what is going on in Scotland in the name of conservation. People pushing an agenda to urban masses which is full of falsehoods and half truths. They rely on the "if we say it often enough it will be taken as truth" and the fact that most politicians (the key to the £££££££s) are thick as ......... . None of this will put one extra salmon in rivers.
River management scientists now talk about saving salmon from extinction as opposed to working towards putting a harvestable surplus in to rivers. But they keep their jobs and mix with loonies? Madness.
I count myself lucky living where I do. Plenty fish in rivers surrounded by treeless wastelands (hahaha, which clowns called the moors that...ah yes, anti field sport loonies).
Anyone getting taken in by this film needs to open their eyes. Riparian woodland....yes, this is a great idea. The rest of it is just irrelevant to salmon.

 

[Horsbrugh]

I think people can nit pick about the programme and pick out segments they dont like, but I believe the overall message is a good one. I would like to hear alternative sustainable solutions to help the environment from those who fundamentally disagree with the film.

I don't think anyone would argue against planting native trees in upland areas next to rivers to improve habitat and shading. It's the turning whole areas of Scotland into forests and filling them with beavers, lynx and then no doubt bears and wolves that is a bit fanciful, far fetched and completely unnecessary for the benefit of Atlantic salmon. The nonsense about salmon being essential for the forest and the forest being essential for the salmon, just demonstrates the motives behind this have nothing to do with fishing and salmon.
Also, it was quite sad that they implied that heather moorland was a virtually sterile environment, with no acknowledgement of the vast range of species that flourish there, and only there, especially on well managed moorland.

 

[keirross]

The first time I really became aware of the deadening of pinewood afforested ground was on the upper Reelin in the 70s.
This was the very 1st time I had fished the Finn, which itself was far too big to fish that day. So, my friend, an Irish priest, Collum Morris, who had invited me across for a few days, took me up the Reelin.
The environment in the forest floor was absolutely dead, desolate. It stunk of pine needles and spewed acid into the river via the myriad of drainage ditches. The water was sour, full of acid.
I have no issue with Lowland rivers planting low level bushes to shade nursery burns, Highland rivers are doing well enough with none.
However, blanket afforestation is nothing but a sham and trying to paint it as environmentally friendly is a disgraceful deception. People who blindly buy into it need to do a bit more research on the subject and not get sucked into blatant commercial propaganda narrated by some tinpot celebrety who is clearly only in it for the cash.

The first time I really became aware of the deadening of pinewood afforested ground was on the upper Reelin in the 70s.
This was the very 1st time I had fished the Finn, which itself was far too big to fish that day. So, my friend, an Irish priest, Collum Morris, who had invited me across for a few days, took me up the Reelin.
The environment in the forest floor was absolutely dead, desolate. It stunk of pine needles and spewed acid into the river via the myriad of drainage ditches. The water was sour, full of acid.
I have no issue with Lowland rivers planting low level bushes to shade nursery burns, Highland rivers are doing well enough with none.
However, blanket afforestation is nothing but a sham and trying to paint it as environmentally friendly is a disgraceful deception. People who blindly buy into it need to do a bit more research on the subject and not get sucked into blatant commercial propaganda narrated by some tinpot celebrety who is clearly only in it for the cash.

Surely, no capable individual can not see where this is not leaded towards. Politically driven determination. That's way above gov control, essence developed. Forces.

 

[keirross]

100% correct.

I really wasn't aware how bad they were myself until I walked through a planted pine forest up the Glen from me. I had been up not long after the trees were planted but it wasn't for a long time after it that I was back there. It was shocking.

I had the dog with me and was walking down a break between the trees. When the dog went into the trees he just disappeared. It was so dark within the trees themselves. I put him on the lead again very quickly.

I then walked about 10 yards into the trees and just stood and listened. There wasn't a sound. Not a bird, not a breath of wind and so dark. It was such an eerie feeling.

The ground beneath the trees was like a desert. Nothing can grow with no light penetrating the trees and its just a mass of dead pine needles. Other than the drainage ditches running to the burn below, the ground is featureless.

I was glad to get out of the trees again. No matter what way you looked, everything just looked the same. It felt extremely claustrophobic.

If that is classed as "environmentally friendly", I really don't know. To me it was absolutely sickening.

Not even - now - as mild - a bat. Sorry, but ABN easy scoffing Don and Dee stuff as Prof Racey (got a bat prob pc will do you in).

 

[duncan]

Having watched the Riverwoods film, I am afraid I can't share your enthusiasm. In my opinion, it is full of inaccuracies and appears driven, primarily, by a re wilding agenda.

It starts by showing a Scottish highland valley, a river and no trees, it then implies that the salmon numbers are in trouble because of the lack of trees. The narrator then explains that the salmon are essential for the survival of the forest and the two are intrinsically linked. Certainly true in Alaska with their Pacific salmon but not here with Atlantics. The film then switched to an Alaskan wilderness and a river, red with pacific salmon. It implies that that could be the same here. Again the narrator emphasises the link between the salmon and the trees. They state that the salmon carcasses supply the essential nutrients required for the trees survival. Certainly true in Alaska, where all the salmon die after spawning. They seemed to have totally missed the point, that Atlantic salmon head back to sea after spawning and any that do die, mostly do so, many miles downstream from their spawning grounds.

Not surprisingly, there was also a big push for reintroducing beavers and lynx. Also, the implication was that the landscape has been created for grouse shooting and salmon were suffering as a result.

To me, the way the whole presentation came across, was that the re wilders were just using the status of Atlantic salmon as a means to try and promote their agenda.

I am certainly not opposed to the right trees being planted in the right areas. That could certainly help improve habitat for young fish, while also help mitigate rising water temperatures. However, they also seem to have missed the fact that the high numbers of salmon recorded in the past, occurred when these same areas, were actually devoid of trees then too.

Certainly worth a watch, it's well made, but just remember to switch on the B… S…t filter. Sadly, the average urban dwelling viewer, will take it all as gospel and probably believe every word.

100% correct and no mention of the decline which started right after the first salmon farms opened.

 

[keirross]

Do not tell the government that we need to plant trees in the upper reaches as they will start planting thousands of conifers. Then we are back to acid rain again.

100% correct and no mention of the decline which started right after the first salmon farms opened.

There were well, kinda good as established early Orkney and ssw coast. Sell out, as might do toto Norway prospectors then increasingly via banks subsequent to the behind the scenes money men that just happen to shove the climate agenda acoss and within increasing climate monies. The dosh is imaginary currency loosely cabled around. They know that they cannot get off the future currency - that currency is you and I, my daughters and sons - so their already enabling to to attempt to further lock you down. It is desperate we need to rid of this now.

 

[goosander]

Watched the film last night. Enjoyed the photography but salmon was only used as a bait to catch the public to encourage there rewilding dreams. This is very obvious when they started to talk about the damage roe deer are doing and want the introduction of the lynx to control deer numbers. Same with their bit about beavers. Beavers blocking streams with their dams looked good but i have always understood that in order to leap over a waterfall [beavers dam] the fish needed a deep pool to build up speed. Cannot see how a nearly stagnant pool of water will help the salmon. Planting trees sounds good but how will the beavers know to leave them alone and only take the ones they are supposed to kill.
Bob.

 

[Wee Porters]

When they had the small clip showing Goosanders and talk of dealing with them the fella said, "we've interfered with
nature too much, let nature take it's course". Really? Yet the program is all about reintroducing beavers, Lynx etc, you
couldn't make that stuff up.

 

[Loxie]

When they had the small clip showing Goosanders and talk of dealing with them the fella said, "we've interfered with
nature too much, let nature take it's course". Really? Yet the program is all about reintroducing beavers, Lynx etc, you
couldn't make that stuff up.

Why cant they introduce something that only eats goosanders and cormorants?

 

[fishfan]

Why do people think we dont have beavers or lynx, plus many other species anymore, we used to. Is the UK environment a better place without them? Why do we need to re establish large areas of woodland? Guess who interfered to create the habitat and species loss.
I wonder if we had lynx still as a species that were in the wild and they were on the edge,would folk look at them differently? Look at wild cats, they are clinging on and are now in serious threat of becoming extinct due to habitat loss and hybridisation. If they became extinct centuries ago and attempts were made to reintroduce them would folk say 'thats a stupid idea to release them?'

 

[400]

Do you live in a rural area fishfan?
I doubt it.

 

[fishfan]

I do RF.
I saw a recent report that Scotland has enough habitat at present to support around 500 Lynx. That in the grand scheme of things is a very small number. Compare that to the number of foxes.

 

[Jockiescott]

I think the Loughs Agency here are doing all thst really needs to be done for salmon, tree wise.

This appeared on their Facebook page today. If you do a search for "Loughs Agency" on Facebook you can see a video of their planting scheme.

"As part of the CatchmentCARE project, instream and riparian habitat improvement works were completed on the Cummirk River, a tributary of the Finn, in 2020.

The installation included pinning woody material and matting made from natural fibres to help re-profile the eroding riverbank and reduce erosion, stiles and gates.

The 5m buffer was planted with approximately 2,450 trees using four species; Alder, Rowan, Silver Birch and Willow.

The instream works included pinning woody material and matting made from natural fibres to help re-profile the eroding riverbank and reduce erosion."