[SOS]

What has my country (Scotland) become?
MSPs have voted through the gender recognition bill,
this allows people to self identify which gender they want to be and will also allow perverts and sex offenders to access women's toilets and locker rooms.
So now Alexa Salmond could identify as a woman and enter womans toilets and anyone who complains could be prosecuted.
It is my opinion that you can change your clothes grow your hair long or cut your hair, but a male cannot grow ovaries and a female cannot grow balls, some people might have been born into the wrong body I get that but that would be a very tiny percentage.
So now Santa could turn up in a red dress rather than a red suit.
Just as it is now their right to choose what gender they want to identify as it is also my right to disagree with this bill.

 

[iainmortimer]

Its a contentious area for sure but I have to say that I side with your view. I struggle to believe that the argument about gender has been won on the basis that the very big minority shouted about being their rights and being discriminated against without any consideration of the rights of the majority. As a result, the majority of women have now lost their rights, are now discriminated against and even worse, are now put at risk! You only have to look at the relatively recent case of a woman (women?) being assaulted in a woman's prison by a man that self-identified as a woman. Karen White: how 'manipulative' transgender inmate attacked again | Transgender | The Guardian, and the rape in an Illinois prison with the same cause.

A man is born a man, a woman as woman. Any change to the facilities used should require a physical match as that is ultimately what separation by sex is about. However, even that is not wholly satisfactory given that due to genetic effects, female sexual organs can appear quite male in form and vice versa and in fully clothed areas, how do you check?

A ruling is needed but this Scottish law fails on many fronts and mostly on the fact I mentioned already, all it does is move the problem from the minority to the majority but with the added risk of sexual violence.

 

[salarchaser]

Im all for supporting minorities.
However, it does seem in the current climate the minorities have more rights than the majority.
I feel sorry for people who have these internal strifes (though I'm sure they'll tell me they dont want sympathy) but the world does seem to have gone mad.

 

[tealblue]

I'm just wondering if wee nippy and her gang are playing politics here.
I've just read that the UK government has raised concern's about this legislation and could seek to prevent it from becoming law by blocking Royal Assent.

So if this does happen then wee nippy will be out shouting for independence as it's more interference from Westminster.

In my opinion I don't give a hoot if someone want's to be known as he, she, women, man, or any other wokery name but this could turn into a perverts charter.

 

[Safranfoer]

I'm not convinced that the big thing holding perverts and sex offenders back from assaulting women is lack of access to women's toilets or changing rooms, or that giving them access will see a rise in predatory behaviour - but if it does, the issue then is, what do we do about a predatory minority?

Speaking as a woman, it's great to see men be so concerned about this issue and protecting women - and genuinely, I would urge you to go the extra mile and call out poor behaviour from your mates if you see it, and encourage your sons to do the same. Because women are on the receiving end of poor behaviour from men in every club and pub in the land on a Saturday night, yet we do not keep the men at home in order to protect them from predators and sex offenders, because they're in the minority. Yet 1 in 4 women have been raped or sexually assaulted as an adult, according to figures from Rape Crisis. Anyone who is concerned about the safety of the women in their lives, their wives and daughters, should make a habit of being vigilant for the kind of 'banter' and handsy behaviour that leaves women feeling vulnerable and unsafe, and creates a thriving culture of sexual objectification that leads to worse things happening.

Because if the moral panic has solid basis and we really do now live in a world where women aren't even safe to come out of a locked toilet cubicle and wash our hands at the sink next to a man - the problem really isn't self-identification, is it? The problem is men. But I don't believe that to be true. Let's not build a fearful society around a minority that behave appallingly. Let's stamp the bad behaviour out at root.

I find it depressing that the arguments against self-ID are all about giving women safe spaces, it's important to protect our safe spaces, women need to be kept away from the predatory gaze of men... Very little conversation on WHY this is so, and what is going to be done to change that. Because we really should be able to wash our hands safely next to a bloke in the loo without all of this fuss, you know. That's a verrrrrrry low threshold.

 

[Safranfoer]

A man is born a man, a woman as woman. Any change to the facilities used should require a physical match as that is ultimately what separation by sex is about. However, even that is not wholly satisfactory given that due to genetic effects, female sexual organs can appear quite male in form and vice versa and in fully clothed areas, how do you check?

If we are convinced that predatory men will pose as women to enter toilets, you can be sure that they'll also sign themselves up for the genital checking committee...

Personally, I love mixed toilets. The queues for ladies are always a mile long - I've been to a fair few theatres, galleries and cathedrals where there are just cubicles, rows and rows, for everyone. They're great, especially if you're a mum out with a son or dad with his daughter - being in the same place really helps! The loos where I work are all unisex. It's never occurred to me to feel unsafe in them.

 

[Occasional salmon fisher]

I'm not convinced that the big thing holding perverts and sex offenders back from assaulting women is lack of access to women's toilets or changing rooms, or that giving them access will see a rise in predatory behaviour - but if it does, the issue then is, what do we do about a predatory minority?

Speaking as a woman, it's great to see men be so concerned about this issue and protecting women - and genuinely, I would urge you to go the extra mile and call out poor behaviour from your mates if you see it, and encourage your sons to do the same. Because women are on the receiving end of poor behaviour from men in every club and pub in the land on a Saturday night, yet we do not keep the men at home in order to protect them from predators and sex offenders, because they're in the minority. Yet 1 in 4 women have been raped or sexually assaulted as an adult, according to figures from Rape Crisis. Anyone who is concerned about the safety of the women in their lives, their wives and daughters, should make a habit of being vigilant for the kind of 'banter' and handsy behaviour that leaves women feeling vulnerable and unsafe, and creates a thriving culture of sexual objectification that leads to worse things happening.

Because if the moral panic has solid basis and we really do now live in a world where women aren't even safe to come out of a locked toilet cubicle and wash our hands at the sink next to a man - the problem really isn't self-identification, is it? The problem is men. But I don't believe that to be true. Let's not build a fearful society around a minority that behave appallingly. Let's stamp the bad behaviour out at root.

I find it depressing that the arguments against self-ID are all about giving women safe spaces, it's important to protect our safe spaces, women need to be kept away from the predatory gaze of men... Very little conversation on WHY this is so, and what is going to be done to change that. Because we really should be able to wash our hands safely next to a bloke in the loo without all of this fuss, you know. That's a verrrrrrry low threshold.

Broadly agree but it is the type of blokes who might use "easy" legislation to wash hands next to you that is the issue .....

 

[tenet]

Alan Cochrane, editor of Scottish edition of the Daily Telegraph, claims that Sturgeon has used her untrammelled powers to reduce a once proud nation to a Banana Republic.

 

[Occasional salmon fisher]

As an aside, could a 65 year old man become a woman and start getting state pension a year early ?

(Not relevant to me, far too young ! ).

 

[tenet]

You wouldn't want a shared Loo at our golf club on seniors day Saffy.

 

[iainmortimer]

If we are convinced that predatory men will pose as women to enter toilets, you can be sure that they'll also sign themselves up for the genital checking committee...

Personally, I love mixed toilets. The queues for ladies are always a mile long - I've been to a fair few theatres, galleries and cathedrals where there are just cubicles, rows and rows, for everyone. They're great, especially if you're a mum out with a son or dad with his daughter - being in the same place really helps! The loos where I work are all unisex. It's never occurred to me to feel unsafe in them.

I don’t disgaree with your response or the previous post but sadly the reality we live in is one where men do behave poorly. For that reason there are a relatively large number of women that are fearful of being attacked or have been attacked. This new law gives zero protection for them and in fact only makes it worse. I am genuinely concerned about the impact given the stories I have heard from those who work with women and girls that have had to escape abuse with very little help from the government. This law and calls for similar law pays scant regard to them hence my comment that the law moves the problem to a greater number of people instead of solving it. Good intent, very bad implementation for no law should be passed that increases risk of harm.

As for throwing the book at predators. The law is an ass, doesn’t do nearly enough and there are to few police to enforce it any case as it is with pretty much all anti-social behaviour.

Your point is accurate though in that what needs to change is culture. What we don’t need is more law, just better enforcement at a societal rather than legal level.

 

[Safranfoer]

I don’t disgaree with your response or the previous post but sadly the reality we live in is one where men do behave poorly. For that reason there are a relatively large number of women that are fearful of being attacked or have been attacked. This new law gives zero protection for them and in fact only makes it worse. I am genuinely concerned about the impact given the stories I have heard from those who work with women and girls that have had to escape abuse with very little help from the government. This law and calls for similar law pays scant regard to them hence my comment that the law moves the problem to a greater number of people instead of solving it. Good intent, very bad implementation for no law should be passed that increases risk of harm.

As for throwing the book at predators. The law is an ass, doesn’t do nearly enough and there are to few police to enforce it any case as it is with pretty much all anti-social behaviour.

Your point is accurate though in that what needs to change is culture. What we don’t need is more law, just better enforcement at a societal rather than legal level.

I'm struggling to imagine predators going to the effort of getting a Gender Recognition Certificate when they can already just predate, I guess... I know that there are too many women that live in fear of men. I just can't see that the threat posed to them by trans women (a tiny minority), or predatory men dressed as women (can't see this really taking off, can you? They'd stick out - the opposite of what criminals want), is any greater than that by predatory men, full stop (hiding somewhere amongst half the population) - who we don't legislate against.

The culture change you advocate would solve all the problems.

 

[iainmortimer]

I'm struggling to imagine predators going to the effort of getting a Gender Recognition Certificate when they can already just predate, I guess... I know that there are too many women that live in fear of men. I just can't see that the threat posed to them by trans women (a tiny minority), or predatory men dressed as women (can't see this really taking off, can you? They'd stick out - the opposite of what criminals want), is any greater than that by predatory men, full stop (hiding somewhere amongst half the population) - who we don't legislate against.

The culture change you advocate would solve all the problems.

I agree except for the evidence I provided with the links that says the opposite. Hard to believe and yet a fact. That is my big issue with this law. Just one extra instance of abuse or rape thats enabled by an ill thought out law is one to many.

 

[Wee-Eck]

If thought I may be going to prison in the near future I could self declare myself to be female in order to be sent to a women's prison (much nicer than Barlinnie) then once there discover I was a lesbian therefore having the best of both worlds.

 

[salarchaser]

If thought I may be going to prison in the near future I could self declare myself to be female in order to be sent to a women's prison (much nicer than Barlinnie) then once there discover I was a lesbian therefore having the best of both worlds.

There are some devious minds on this board.

 

[happy days]

I think its a perverts charter to enter female changing rooms, showers toilets etc, as the father of five daughters it should be resisted at every stage IMO. Safety comes before the whims of a minority.

 

[heather point]

I'm not convinced that the big thing holding perverts and sex offenders back from assaulting women is lack of access to women's toilets or changing rooms, or that giving them access will see a rise in predatory behaviour - but if it does, the issue then is, what do we do about a predatory minority?

Speaking as a woman, it's great to see men be so concerned about this issue and protecting women - and genuinely, I would urge you to go the extra mile and call out poor behaviour from your mates if you see it, and encourage your sons to do the same. Because women are on the receiving end of poor behaviour from men in every club and pub in the land on a Saturday night, yet we do not keep the men at home in order to protect them from predators and sex offenders, because they're in the minority. Yet 1 in 4 women have been raped or sexually assaulted as an adult, according to figures from Rape Crisis. Anyone who is concerned about the safety of the women in their lives, their wives and daughters, should make a habit of being vigilant for the kind of 'banter' and handsy behaviour that leaves women feeling vulnerable and unsafe, and creates a thriving culture of sexual objectification that leads to worse things happening.

Because if the moral panic has solid basis and we really do now live in a world where women aren't even safe to come out of a locked toilet cubicle and wash our hands at the sink next to a man - the problem really isn't self-identification, is it? The problem is men. But I don't believe that to be true. Let's not build a fearful society around a minority that behave appallingly. Let's stamp the bad behaviour out at root.

I find it depressing that the arguments against self-ID are all about giving women safe spaces, it's important to protect our safe spaces, women need to be kept away from the predatory gaze of men... Very little conversation on WHY this is so, and what is going to be done to change that. Because we really should be able to wash our hands safely next to a bloke in the loo without all of this fuss, you know. That's a verrrrrrry low threshold.

I find that figure of 1 in 4 women having been raped or sexually assaulted as an adult very strange.
I know many women and I am pretty sure this has not happened to any of them.
Regarding the Gender Bill I would agree with what virtually everyone on here has already said. A total disgrace and yet another example of the vociferous minority out shouting the fairly silent majority.
This SNP bunch are out to ruin our beautiful country and the sooner we get rid if them the better.

 

[williegunn2]

What has my country (Scotland) become?
MSPs have voted through the gender recognition bill,

This ridiculous Bill was pushed through by the SNP, Greens, Liberals and surprisingly Labour.

Only 9 SNP MSPs voted against, the nine SNP rebels were: Stephanie Callaghan; Annabelle Ewing; Fergus Ewing; Jim Fairlie; Kenny Gibson; Ruth Maguire; John Mason; Ash Regan; and Michelle Thomson. Labour's Claire Baker and Carol Mochan also voted against the bill, in contrast the the rest of their group. The Conservatives' Jackson Carlaw, Jamie Greene and Sandesh Gulhane backed it, also in contrast to the rest of their group. I hope those in Scotland remember this at the next election when the time comes to vote.

 

[Safranfoer]

.

I find that figure of 1 in 4 women having been raped or sexually assaulted as an adult very strange.
I know many women and I am pretty sure this has not happened to any of them.
Regarding the Gender Bill I would agree with what virtually everyone on here has already said. A total disgrace and yet another example of the vociferous minority out shouting the fairly silent majority.
This SNP bunch are out to ruin our beautiful country and the sooner we get rid if them the better.

The lasting impact of violence against women and girls - Office for National Statistics

Violence against women and girls is prevalent across England and Wales and can lead to serious after affects

www.ons.gov.uk

Statistics about sexual violence and abuse

Want to know how many people are raped, sexually abused or sexually assaulted? We have key statistics from trusted sources showing the scale of the problem.

rapecrisis.org.uk

Have a read. Violence against women and girls - VAWG - is shocking. It dwarfs any concerns I have about gender recognition certificates - and it should most people, to be honest. I really do wish all the fear of, and hatred towards, trans women and what they might do was redirected towards the men that ARE doing it. Statistically, women have more to fear from their partner than a man dressed as a woman in the loo.

I can’t get angry about gender recognition until this has changed. It doesn’t make sense.

 

[heather point]

.

The lasting impact of violence against women and girls - Office for National Statistics

Violence against women and girls is prevalent across England and Wales and can lead to serious after affects

www.ons.gov.uk

Statistics about sexual violence and abuse

Want to know how many people are raped, sexually abused or sexually assaulted? We have key statistics from trusted sources showing the scale of the problem.

rapecrisis.org.uk

Have a read. Violence against women and girls - VAWG - is shocking. It dwarfs any concerns I have about gender recognition certificates - and it should most people, to be honest. I really do wish all the fear of, and hatred towards, trans women and what they might do was redirected towards the men that ARE doing it. Statistically, women have more to fear from their partner than a man dressed as a woman in the loo.

I can’t get angry about gender recognition until this has changed. It doesn’t make sense.

I never said the figure was wrong.
I said that I found it rather strange as I know a lot of women and was pretty sure that this has never happened to any of them.