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End of the Line

8041 Views 161 Replies 42 Participants Last post by  midgydug
Nope, not the Wilbury's, but Salmon. Interesting thoughts by Attenborough and some positive words from Fergal Sharkey, but 20 yrs?, they haven't got that long!. My own belief is we won't be fishing for migratory fish next year with rod and line. So low are returning numbers. Migratory fish are being netted to extinction on the high Sea's it's that simples. Yes there are other problems -water quality being a big one- but these are a part of a cumulative effect rather than a sole cause. I feel the line is being drawn in the sand as we speak. So get your rod hours in now because I believe we won't have the opportunity next year. The cessation of rod n line Salmon angling will lessen a lot of the problems that this and highly likely a new Government just dosen't want to face or heaven forbid indeed act on.
Thinking about it, the Salmons only real hope is that returning numbers get so low it's financially unsound to target them through netting, however that won't protect them from being harvested on a by catch basis.
Stop the high seas's netting, get those trawlers into dock right now and returning numbers will rise overnight, I guarantee it!. All the other issues pale a long way behind this one.
Ironic don't you all think, the Salmon farms will all be sat on a nice little earner on the back of this!.
Pedro.
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Perhaps not next year , but I think it’ll all be over for salmon angling UK wide within the next 4-5 years.
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Nope, not the Wilbury's, but Salmon. Interesting thoughts by Attenborough and some positive words from Fergal Sharkey, but 20 yrs?, they haven't got that long!. My own belief is we won't be fishing for migratory fish next year with rod and line. So low are returning numbers. Migratory fish are being netted to extinction on the high Sea's it's that simples. Yes there are other problems -water quality being a big one- but these are a part of a cumulative effect rather than a sole cause. I feel the line is being drawn in the sand as we speak. So get your rod hours in now because I believe we won't have the opportunity next year. The cessation of rod n line Salmon angling will lessen a lot of the problems that this and highly likely a new Government just dosen't want to face or heaven forbid indeed act on.
Thinking about it, the Salmons only real hope is that returning numbers get so low it's financially unsound to target them through netting, however that won't protect them from being harvested on a by catch basis.
Stop the high seas's netting, get those trawlers into dock right now and returning numbers will rise overnight, I guarantee it!. All the other issues pale a long way behind this one.
Ironic don't you all think, the Salmon farms will all be sat on a nice little earner on the back of this!.
Pedro.
Will give it a maximum of 10 years before it is finished. Need to get extinct so that the rewilding guys can add them to there list.
The goosanders and cormorants would be a start but the biggest threat that we could overcome is water purity. The loss of fly life for the parr is a big problem. Being a trout fisher as well you see the diffrence in the trout's condition in days gone past when the march browns and the large dark olives appeared.
Bob..
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Will give it a maximum of 10 years before it is finished. Need to get extinct so that the rewilding guys can add them to there list.
The goosanders and cormorants would be a start but the biggest threat that we could overcome is water purity. The loss of fly life for the parr is a big problem. Being a trout fisher as well you see the diffrence in the trout's condition in days gone past when the march browns and the large dark olives appeared.
Bob..
I remember a pool close to me and fishing it during the summer. The way the light of the evening sun came through the trees and hit the swarms of flies above the river, it was like looking through a fog.

The pool was a dead, flat calm pool but you would have thought it was boiling with the trout and part feeding on the surface.

You didn't even think anything about it back then.

Standing last season looking down the same pool with barely a fly to be seen and the pool was almost completely flat calm. It was a sad sight.
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Nope, not the Wilbury's, but Salmon. Interesting thoughts by Attenborough and some positive words from Fergal Sharkey, but 20 yrs?, they haven't got that long!. My own belief is we won't be fishing for migratory fish next year with rod and line. So low are returning numbers. Migratory fish are being netted to extinction on the high Sea's it's that simples. Yes there are other problems -water quality being a big one- but these are a part of a cumulative effect rather than a sole cause. I feel the line is being drawn in the sand as we speak. So get your rod hours in now because I believe we won't have the opportunity next year. The cessation of rod n line Salmon angling will lessen a lot of the problems that this and highly likely a new Government just dosen't want to face or heaven forbid indeed act on.
Thinking about it, the Salmons only real hope is that returning numbers get so low it's financially unsound to target them through netting, however that won't protect them from being harvested on a by catch basis.
Stop the high seas's netting, get those trawlers into dock right now and returning numbers will rise overnight, I guarantee it!. All the other issues pale a long way behind this one.
Ironic don't you all think, the Salmon farms will all be sat on a nice little earner on the back of this!.
Pedro.
If you are right it does rather beg the question what all these trawlers are doing with them as wild atlantic salmon is pretty much impossible to buy. Also how do they only target salmon from certain rivers whilst leaving others largely untouched? It also seems odd that there are virtually no net marked fish being caught.

I will have a bet with anyone who fancies it that salmon will not be extinct in Scotland in 20 years. £1 a fish anyone?
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I complained about this years ago, saying that the level of parr in our rivers had dropped drastically. I noted this on my local river when I was sea trout fishing at night. If you started at last light you couldn't drop your flies in the water without catching a parr on every one of them. Around 15 to 20 years ago, that phenomenon started to fall away and the parr were not as much of a pest when fishing with smaller flies, but the drop in their numbers was scary back then, never mind the levels we have dropped to now.
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If you are right it does rather beg the question what all these trawlers are doing with them as wild atlantic salmon is pretty much impossible to buy. Also how do they only target salmon from certain rivers whilst leaving others largely untouched? It also seems odd that there are virtually no net marked fish being caught.
By catch - & there’s ways to sell them, especially at the price they get.
What rivers are doing well with salmon?
In Scotland?
UK?
Europe?
Stuff that goes to Greenland and returns to Europe?
Russia’s go to the White & Barents Sea I think.
It seems pretty widespread for “our” fish.
Anecdotally in the last few seasons there’s been proportionately quite a lot of damaged fish caught by me and friends.
Agree - they’ll not go extinct - but “worth fishing for”???
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Unfortunately regardless what the problems are, be it netting at sea, predation, not enough trees or whatever - it is too late for our Salmon now. The game's a bogey..
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Agree, it’s all a total waste of time. If there is anyone who meeds to get rid of a rod on Hendersyde, the Lower Oykel, or Delphur please let me know, I’ll take it off your hands for £50. :ROFLMAO:


Joking aside, catches this season so far seem to have been truly dreadful in all the widely available fisheries.
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Nope, not the Wilbury's, but Salmon. Interesting thoughts by Attenborough and some positive words from Fergal Sharkey, but 20 yrs?, they haven't got that long!. My own belief is we won't be fishing for migratory fish next year with rod and line. So low are returning numbers. Migratory fish are being netted to extinction on the high Sea's it's that simples. Yes there are other problems -water quality being a big one- but these are a part of a cumulative effect rather than a sole cause. I feel the line is being drawn in the sand as we speak. So get your rod hours in now because I believe we won't have the opportunity next year. The cessation of rod n line Salmon angling will lessen a lot of the problems that this and highly likely a new Government just dosen't want to face or heaven forbid indeed act on.
Thinking about it, the Salmons only real hope is that returning numbers get so low it's financially unsound to target them through netting, however that won't protect them from being harvested on a by catch basis.
Stop the high seas's netting, get those trawlers into dock right now and returning numbers will rise overnight, I guarantee it!. All the other issues pale a long way behind this one.
Ironic don't you all think, the Salmon farms will all be sat on a nice little earner on the back of this!.
Pedro.
Interesting that you say netting in the high seas is to blame for the lack of salmon, are sea trout being netted to extinction on the high seas as well as their numbers have dropped off a cliff as well?
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I complained about this years ago, saying that the level of parr in our rivers had dropped drastically. I noted this on my local river when I was sea trout fishing at night. If you started at last light you couldn't drop your flies in the water without catching a parr on every one of them. Around 15 to 20 years ago, that phenomenon started to fall away and the parr were not as much of a pest when fishing with smaller flies, but the drop in their numbers was scary back then, never mind the levels we have dropped to now.

I noticed and said the same years ago as well, very few parr ringing the surface on a summer's night.

Not to worry say the Boards biologists, we've been electro fishing and there's a healthy stock of juvenile fish in the river.🤷‍♂️

Perhaps healthy and plentiful are not one and the same.
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Nope, not the Wilbury's, but Salmon. Interesting thoughts by Attenborough and some positive words from Fergal Sharkey, but 20 yrs?, they haven't got that long!. My own belief is we won't be fishing for migratory fish next year with rod and line. So low are returning numbers. Migratory fish are being netted to extinction on the high Sea's it's that simples. Yes there are other problems -water quality being a big one- but these are a part of a cumulative effect rather than a sole cause. I feel the line is being drawn in the sand as we speak. So get your rod hours in now because I believe we won't have the opportunity next year. The cessation of rod n line Salmon angling will lessen a lot of the problems that this and highly likely a new Government just dosen't want to face or heaven forbid indeed act on.
Thinking about it, the Salmons only real hope is that returning numbers get so low it's financially unsound to target them through netting, however that won't protect them from being harvested on a by catch basis.
Stop the high seas's netting, get those trawlers into dock right now and returning numbers will rise overnight, I guarantee it!. All the other issues pale a long way behind this one.
Ironic don't you all think, the Salmon farms will all be sat on a nice little earner on the back of this!.
Pedro.
I think this subject has been well covered before. What trawlers are catching them and where are they landing all these fish. ?
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Nope, not the Wilbury's, but Salmon. Interesting thoughts by Attenborough and some positive words from Fergal Sharkey, but 20 yrs?, they haven't got that long!. My own belief is we won't be fishing for migratory fish next year with rod and line. So low are returning numbers. Migratory fish are being netted to extinction on the high Sea's it's that simples. Yes there are other problems -water quality being a big one- but these are a part of a cumulative effect rather than a sole cause. I feel the line is being drawn in the sand as we speak. So get your rod hours in now because I believe we won't have the opportunity next year. The cessation of rod n line Salmon angling will lessen a lot of the problems that this and highly likely a new Government just dosen't want to face or heaven forbid indeed act on.
Thinking about it, the Salmons only real hope is that returning numbers get so low it's financially unsound to target them through netting, however that won't protect them from being harvested on a by catch basis.
Stop the high seas's netting, get those trawlers into dock right now and returning numbers will rise overnight, I guarantee it!. All the other issues pale a long way behind this one.
Ironic don't you all think, the Salmon farms will all be sat on a nice little earner on the back of this!.
Pedro.
This is one of the most interesting and thought provoking posts that I have seen for a while. I was not sure about pulling the trigger on this but I must agree with a lot of what is in the post but there are anomalies
Firstly, high seas netting is not the main problem.
Trawlers operate by trawling the sea bed, even drift nets operate well below the surface and salmon swim in the top ten feet of water.
Also if commercial fishermen are caught by the fisheries protection vessels with salmon in their holds the penalties are severe, fines can run into the millions of pounds.
Commercial fishermen do not want to catch what they call red fish. They can not land them in this country, there may be some transfer to foreign boats at sea but for most it is just not worth the risk.
I do not deny that the writing is on the wall for sport salmon fishing in this country but high seas netting is not the reason.
There are many other factors in play here, water quality I would agree with, there are also seals and fish eating birds, both of which affect our rivers at source.
When stake nets were allowed I used to watch the netsman, whom I knew, at Tentsmuir, the mouth of the Tay shooting seals regularly. You would get locked up if you tried that now.
The river that I know best, the Tay is in my opinion almost finished as a viable salmon river.
I have fished the Tay for over forty years on every beat from Logierait to Almondmouth and have seen the catches on an inexorable downward spiral to the extent that it is not worth fishing now.
I do not fish the Tay at all now, as I said I do not think it is worth fishing, but I do watch the catches and to say they are pathetic is a gross understatement.
I was speaking to one of the Tay ghillies, a great friend who has been on the Tay all of his life and when I asked him how bad it really was he replied that it was not worth the petrol to get there.
I do not agree with Rennie that this year will be our last year, there are a lot of vested interests who will ensure that this does not happen because as long as gullible anglers are prepared to pay the money there will be greedy beat owners who will take it.
I would hesitate to put a number on it but I think that something between five and ten years will see the finish of it.
It could probably still be brought back from the brink but it would take a concerted effort by government to do this and the state that the Scottish Government is in at the moment they have bigger fish to fry than salmon.
I take no pleasure in writing the above post but as one of the more experienced members of this Forum that is what I have observed over the years.
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What hope have the human population got? I heard on the radio this morning that environmental campaigners are having to take the Scottish government to court for not carrying out its duty in the conservation of critical species I.e bottom trawling for scallops etc and smashing up the sea bed to save a few jobs. The trawler men should should put on a mask and dive for them…that will sort out the unemployment of the trawler men.
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Hate to sound like a killjoy but going off Fishpal reports my own opinion is that the species over the UKs rivers are all but extinct? Every year I feel like a broken record in saying that I feel like the salmons incredible coping strategies of having other ages of fish at sea has reached a point where it’s no longer viable?
I realise that it’s more than simply bank high floods every November to January but just that sole thing for me is why I felt that despite the various strategies of the salmon like spawning in the main river and small tributaries has been stretched to its limits with no good winters in between to repair the stocks.
Also we cannot look at this by looking at one river like the Helmsdale that may still have better runs than most.
The recent water authorities map of the scale of pollution has also been very damning imo
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I complained about this years ago, saying that the level of parr in our rivers had dropped drastically. I noted this on my local river when I was sea trout fishing at night. If you started at last light you couldn't drop your flies in the water without catching a parr on every one of them. Around 15 to 20 years ago, that phenomenon started to fall away and the parr were not as much of a pest when fishing with smaller flies, but the drop in their numbers was scary back then, never mind the levels we have dropped to now.
One reason that the numbers of parr appear to have declined, due to not being caught while trout fishing, is that on many rivers and certainly on Tweed, the vast majority of parr are now smolting in their first year. Previously S2 and S3 smolts were the norm, so obviously then, the rivers were full of parr throughout the summer and autumn. Now, in rivers with mostly S1 smolts, there are very few parr left by the summer, as they have all migrated out to sea in the spring.

The change to S1 smolts appears to be a result of warmer winters temps allowing faster growth rates. The down side of this early smolting, is that S1 smolts are smaller than S2 or S3’s and unfortunately, the survival rate of smaller smolts does not seem to be as good as larger ones.
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One reason that the numbers of parr appear to have declined, due to not being caught while trout fishing, is that on many rivers and certainly on Tweed, the vast majority of parr are now smolting in their first year. Previously S2 and S3 smolts were the norm, so obviously then, the rivers were full of parr throughout the summer and autumn. Now, in rivers with mostly S1 smolts, there are very few parr left by the summer, as they have all migrated out to sea in the spring.

The change to S1 smolts appears to be a result of warmer winters temps allowing faster growth rates. The down side of this early smolting, is that S1 smolts are smaller than S2 or S3’s and unfortunately, the survival rate of smaller smolts does seem to be as good as larger ones.
Didn’t know that but I can believe it. Time was when spring trout fishing was sometimes a no go due to greedy parr
I've thought for a long time the salmon will be netted at sea for the sushi market. The Japanese will give top dollar for the best fish.
What hope have the human population got? I heard on the radio this morning that environmental campaigners are having to take the Scottish government to court for not carrying out its duty in the conservation of critical species I.e bottom trawling for scallops etc and smashing up the sea bed to save a few jobs. The trawler men should should put on a mask and dive for them…that will sort out the unemployment of the trawler men.
Well yeah you make a good point since we are governed by duplicitous people who attend their climate/environmental climates and put across that we are all horrendous for not crushing cans in the right bins, all the while having no qualms about signing off on a deal that would see the release of untreated sewage into our rivers up until the year 2050😫
I actually take some comfort from the fact that I don’t know anyone who could do such a thing and be able to live with themselves over such a thing.
Perhaps the only thing that I ever heard from the nut job David Ike was a statement about not judging these people by our standards since those people don’t have any empathy like most of us?
I don't really think there would be problem getting somewhere to get rid of a few fish but, for me, that's not even the issue.

Even if they go back over the side of the boat, dead, along with the rest of any by catch, it's still an awful waste.
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