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beavers now protected in scotland

5K views 54 replies 21 participants last post by  Lamson v10 
#1 ·
just saw on bbc news this morning that beavers now have protected status in scotland,i thought they were already protected,
thia law will allow the spread of this non native species to get completely out of hand,
special licences are needed not only to kill beavers but as i understand to even remove there dams.
what a nonsense considering the damage they do
 
#2 · (Edited)
Unbelievable amount of damage witnessed on last few trips to the Tay. Trees felled across access paths, random bankside damage and sheep falling in and drowning due to undercut banking.

 
#5 ·
I’ve seen the damage they are starting to do on the Tay but it’s nothing compared to what they have done on the Isla. For miles along it’s banks there is now not a single tree standing. They have chopped down the lot. And I’m not just talking small trees and bushes I’ve seen massive trees 2ft in diameter felled. The banks are a death trap as there lots of collapsed holes with mud shoots that are a one way ticket straight into the water.
Brilliant idea reintroducing them.
We should reintroduce bears and wolves as well to see what devastation they can do to our country as well.
Beavers were wiped out for a dam good reason.
 
#13 ·
I've seen the damage they are starting to do on the Tay but it's nothing compared to what they have done on the Isla. For miles along it's banks there is now not a single tree standing. They have chopped down the lot. And I'm not just talking small trees and bushes I've seen massive trees 2ft in diameter felled. The banks are a death trap as there lots of collapsed holes with mud shoots that are a one way ticket straight into the water.
Brilliant idea reintroducing them.
We should reintroduce bears and wolves as well to see what devastation they can do to our country as well.
Beavers were wiped out for a dam good reason.
Yip, wolves, bears and beavers are destroying North America as we speak...they are so effective at destroying things, that after tens of thousands of years of the three species conspiring together, the continent is on the brink of collapse! Just look at Detroit and the Rust Belt for example. If it wasn't for those three, those places would be thriving!

Although, I have obtained some evidence that conservationists may have been able to 'flip' the wolves and get them to work with the other species, to prevent the devastation that you talk about that will be coming to Scotland shortly...

How Wolves Change Rivers - YouTube
 
#7 ·
as i understand farmers etc now have to apply for a licence to remove dams from drainage ditches etc which could cause flooding to crop fields.
what a nonsense
this namby pamby gov have a lot to answer for with there stupid protection laws of beavers and all other predators,raptors.fox.and all the other invasive species that decimate the natural population and countryside
 
#10 ·
The problem is, beavers are not non native, they were in fact rendered extinct in this country. So whilst ScotGov prides itself in being the one trick Independence party, short on any actual constructive political ideas on policing, education, N.H.S. which now languish in a mire of apathy, they are not short on sentiment and nostalgia. They long for the days of the blue woad painted faces, the kilt, plaids and broadswords of Brigadoon and more seriously as far as the environment is concerned, reintroducing destructive species to our already beleaguered countryside. Next on the list is the wolf and lynx.
At least then the beavers will have some sort of natural predator on hand to try and control their burgeoning numbers which have certainly got way out of hand on the Earn all as the posts previously and now moving into the Teith in numbers.
Who are these geniuses???:(:(:(
 
#11 ·
Fantastic news! The more the merrier!

Poor farmer eh...the green fields in the picture at the bottom of this article show just how much land/trees the beaver has cleared already! Oh wait, that was decades of unsustainable agricultural grazing, which along with the explosion of deer that we have in Scotland, is the reason why we only have about 11% left of the country covered in forests.

Beavers given protected status in Scotland - BBC News

4-5000 pounds of damage??? How much is the cost of the damage to the local economy as a result of agricultural pollution? You only have to follow the Ayrshire Rivers Trust Facebook page to see that it is happening on a weekly basis!
 
#16 ·
Just my opinion.

But why introduce beavers one minute knowing what they do,then next shoot them?

Seems these conservatinists just don't know what they are doing and don't do research and would have all sorts reintroduced if they had their way.Then next breath would be on waterloo bridge protesting .

Sorry for my interruption.
 
#23 ·
Lol, best way to ingratiate yourself on here must be to sign up and climb in with both size 13s, start right away with the baiting, take the mick and offend and call a stranger "mate"...

Tam, any chance a tartan croc is at play?? Or Old King Compo??

Is this the new management's way of creating "traffic"?
 
#37 ·
According to the news right now Scotland is expected to plant forests to help with climate warming control. Pity they didn't think about that before protecting beavers. You couldn't make this up. I assume the beavers we already have have already destroyed a couple of forests, and counting.
Cheers
Idbflytye
 
#39 ·
Unfortunately they only seem to fell deciduous trees. They leave the conifers alone and river boards have been lining the upper stretches with native deciduous species like oak, alder and rowan that provide shade and terrestrial food as in caterpillars and various other beasties that fall out of them. Left hand right hand comes to mind.:eek:hwell:
 
#41 ·
#42 · (Edited)
I gather wilding is controversial but you’d need to read the book. All things in balance, and floods are reduced/eliminated, run off is purified (the water below beaver dams is virtually drinkable), flow is controlled so no spate/bare bones cycle... The beavers need culling - or we need to reintroduce their predators- but all in balance, it’s good.

Probably romantic. We can’t help tinkering with things. We need to control it, around our will. And probably impractical.

Was just a timely read. I’m now reading that animals and people with cowlicks are more aggressive.

I have a cowlick. Sigh.
 
#45 ·
.

"All things in balance, and floods are reduced/eliminated, run off is purified (the water below beaver dams is virtually drinkable), flow is controlled so no spate/bare bones cycle.."

---------------------------------------------------

You cannot be serious -are you?

Since when did a dam of any sort prevent flooding, especially on small streams where really heavy rain and subsequent spate can completely overwhelm a beaver dam. It may slow flow a little under normal condition but even then what flows in must flow out, or in the case of a bit spate overtop it. Pretty much rose tinted spectacles perhaps.
 
#43 ·
According to the news right now Scotland is expected to plant forests to help with climate warming control. Pity they didn't think about that before protecting beavers. You couldn't make this up. I assume the beavers we already have have already destroyed a couple of forests, and counting.
Cheers
Idbflytye
And just wait, someone is bound to suggest planting (non-native) spruce and pines because they grow quickly and so will reduce our carbon footprint more quickly.
 
G
#44 ·
Humans cut down 15 billion trees every year.
Beavers can't come even close to that number.

Beavers are at worst a mild inconvenience. At best, they improve biodiversity and help reduce flooding.

All those complaining about beavers cutting down trees, direct your ire closer to home before it is too late.
 
#46 ·
I read a chapter of a book on a hill and it was relevant to the conversation - though there was lots of evidence to support the argument. I’m not the beaver queen. Just thought it was interesting that other anglers had embraced them, is all.

The chapter on soil was much more interesting. I really enjoyed the book.
 
#48 ·
Reading some of the above posts I was wondering if they were trying to be funny or what.
Have these people ever seen a beaver never mind the damage they do. Fields are drained to produce more goods like food for our needs. Trees are planted for a lot of reasons but are needed for house building etc.
In my life time I have seen even small rivers go from taking a week to fall to now doing that in a day. No beaver dam is going to change that.
We have knackered our rivers and a lot of countryside and nothing is going to make a change to that.
Bob.
 
G
#49 ·
I've also seen rivers go from days of flood to hours of flood. Beavers aren't the only solution but what they do naturally is a part of the solution.
The biggest problem in my area is probably what has happened to the moorland.
 
#50 ·
As you said Walleye beavers are not the only problem but it is one we could manage. We have had beavers for well over 20 years on our beats of the Earn and it is only in the last few years that there numbers have gone up and the damage has been considerable.
As far as moorland goes. There was/is a burn that my son used to get good browns out off. The headwaters were ploughed and reseeded for sheep. Now the burn is dry a lot of the time. The curlew/harriers/larks/peewits etc. all gone. Sad.
Bob.
 
#51 ·
The core problem here to the current Beaver -and other- predicaments is, US, man that is.We just can't stop fiddling, messing and in general wanting to control can we.
I'm pretty well stoned on sure the core problem are statistics and not practical solutions, thats how problems are solved.Then take into consideration that it's actually some ones job to effect most of these problems and they have to be seen to be doing some thing and be putting results on the table and hitting their targets, so things get done, they look good and keep a damn good wage(can't fault them for that we all need to live!).Then there's the Farmers,who only want what's best for them, the Forest owners and managers who again want whats best only for them, the Bird watchers who would sell everything to the wall to get what they want.Then do you honestly think we -The Anglers- are any different?,we'd be shut of any and everything that effects the runs of fish to our rivers, but there again we have no clout or back bone at all and least in the way of influence.
Probably most dangerous of the lot are the week end Country File watcher's, live in the towns n cities all week and want to influence things over which they have little knowledge or won't have to put up with the inevitable consequences, just to ease their conscience and make them selves feel better that they're helping the planet.
Just be aware, every Car owner,Supermarket shopper, Medication taker, etc etc has their effect on the environment and planet.I honestly don't think any of us can really afford to assume the high ground ?.
Given time nature will sort every thing,but modern life makes no allowance for time so man feels the need to sort right now what nature willl in her wisdom do at her own pace, when its right to do it.If we weren't here, the planet would soon settle down again,untill another form of species raised itself up to domination once more.Dinosaur any body?.
Pedro.
 
#52 ·
Beaver reintro

There's some 'interesting' stuff put forward via the accompanying study (dated 2001) re the legal framework re re-introductions:

The search for legal obligationsThere are three levels at which legal obligations toreintroduce species may have been created: the international level, the European level and the national level. Atthe national level, this paper primarily considers UK andUS law. The Convention on the Conservation of European Wildlife and Natural Habitats (1979), the BerneConvention, was the ®rst wildlife treaty to encourage itsParties to reintroduce native species as a method ofconservation. Although the use of this method wasrecognized by Lyster (1985) he did not discuss the legaland practical dif®culties of this approach.Under Article 11(2) of the convention the ContractingParties undertake...
Note the 'necessary' bureaucracy...

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...animal-species-into-their-former-habitats.pdf

For comparison, here's a link to current 'direction' via Scottish Wildlife Trust (behind the four days left to act p*sh ad screened here): What European Protected Species status means for Scotland's beavers | Scottish Wildlife Trust

It is only a matter of days now until 1 May when the beaver will achieve European Protected Species (EPS) status in Scotland. This will be a truly landmark occasion as beavers finally get the status they deserve after they were lost to Scotland through human persecution and habitat loss over 400 years ago.
Some stuff. Note well the incipient political dimensions.
 
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