Wye 2020

salarchaser

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Yes I have a water temperature sensor main river side of the bridge below the falls on the marteg, so i go there regularly (one on the Dernol too).

So if the grayling are there it must mean that the water quality is pretty good? So maybe not 'in river' problems for the salmon just purely low numbers of spawning adults?
Grayling dont tolerate poor water quality, so would agree.

Its probably 15 years since decent numbers of parr have been encountered. At the turn of the century you'd regularly have 2 or even 3 on a team of flies in shallow runs. I even stopped fishing some bits to avoid them, for their benefit not mine. Its been some years since I caught a single one.

I have had salmon in july up there but only when my visits have coincided with prolonged high water. 7 or 8 years since the last one. I did hook one when grayling fishing half a mile or so up the elan a few years ago on a size 12 black pennell. We parted company after 3 or 4 minutes. An 8.5 foot #4 is not the right tool really.
 

peterchilton

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Certainly isn't, I used to fish the Doldowlod waters just downstream, a good friend of mine lived right by the river and we rented a beat per season ... plenty of big Grayling and quite a few salmon 15 - 20 years ago
 

salarchaser

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Certainly isn't, I used to fish the Doldowlod waters just downstream, a good friend of mine lived right by the river and we rented a beat per season ... plenty of big Grayling and quite a few salmon 15 - 20 years ago
Fished to the bottom of the craig llyn water at the end of the caravan park.
Indeed, big grayling.
That water changed hands about 4 years ago.
 

Walleye

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Regarding the habitat and the need to get fish right up to the headwaters of tributaries as wel all know the hill terrain is often very steep, rainfall is often very high. This can lead, as it did last winter to massive spates and washout of eggs and fry. If spawning is successful a really cold dry spell in winter can leave the redds high and dry and frozen. Likewise a long drought in the summer can lead to some almost drying up. Not sure how our terrain relates to the upper Tweed tributaries. Tiny head water stream -not always a good idea in my opinion.

I am at present reading a pamphlet (Salmon Harvestswritten by J Arthur Hutton who did more scientific work on the Wye that the whole of EA/NRW have in the last thrity years./
Its 61 pages long and although I have not read all of it yet two things stand out.
One is that a perceived bad spawning year does not by any means mean a poor result two, three or four years later. He gives several instances where poor spawning with few fish over a three year spell of bad spawning produced some of the best runs ever.
.We have said before how there were always big fluctuations in Wye Catches throughout it's history for reasons unknown. Poor spawning it seems often does not produce the result one might expect

In regard to extremely poor catches in 1918 for instance,(pristine habitat, not much pollution, no algae etc) he came to this conclusion;

"The report showed that the Wye, Severn and Usk were all very short of fish and that the Hampshire Avon and Devonshire rivers and some of the western rivers were suffering in the same way and, further' that there had been a similar scarcity in the south and west of Ireland and a lesser degree in some of the rivers in Scotland.
When one finds the same conditions prevailing in so many rivers and in such widely separate districts, one cannot resist the conclusion that it was due to some general cause. and not the result of some local conditions. I have not the slightest doubt in my mind that the main cause of this result is of some unfavourable factor or factors in the sea.

" He goes on much for many more pages to elaborate on this.
Its a fascinating document and will try and serialise it on my blog.

So really the answer to our problem now is the same as its always been -except, no pollution,no degarded habitat no overfishing at sea back then though of course the latter will exacerbate the problem at the present time.
."
I think it was Falkus who included an excerpt from a letter written at the end of the 19th century or early 20th. The letter complained about the almost total lack of salmon in rivers for the last several years, and pretty much how the sport of salmon fishing was doomed.
We have short memories and recent benchmarks when it comes to salmon fishing. I think it is natural for stocks to fluctuate on a 60 or 120 year cycle and most of us will never experience two "booms" in abundance.
So on the one hand it is reassuring to know that the salmon have reduced very much in abundance in the past and have bounced back as part of a natural cycle. On the other, it does seem like other things are at play - with our increasing impact on the environment in the last 50 years I am not sure the natural cycles dominate any more.
In another paper by Russian scientists, they traced pelagic bait fish abundance back through time by looking at fish scales in mud cores. I think they saw a 55 year and a 120 year cycle back over many thousands of years - when both cycles synchronise you get very high abundance or very low abundance of the pelagic bait fish.
 

peterchilton

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fixedspool

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Here's your chance for a good cry. Here on the Wye its all been done before for past 22 years -why should it work elsewhere. As for the last paragraph words fail me, especially when it follows hard on the heels of the latest pollution of the river Llynfi a Wye tributary.

A link to NRW 'Investing in our Rivers to Reverse the Decline of salmon & Sea Trout':

https://naturalresources.wales/abou...yhc9xEODNmezhWjoCKUioKtzwnRZ7ih1bAGaCCKyFMOqI
 

peterchilton

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This is shocking and as Fixedspool has suggested there is no way that the investment of £1.1million in the whole of wales is going to scratch the surface of what is needed and it does look like we have another quango (Afonydd Cymru) which may be using these funds. To put it into perspective in 2018 the Wye and Usk foundation spent £1.2 million on the Wye alone with realistically no or little positive effect, of this sum £600K was salaries and £58K in pensions etc. http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends19/0001080319_AC_20181231_E_C.PDF

Of the things suggested that the money might be spent on
  • Dismantling barriers so that salmon can migrate further upstream such as the weir at Vicars Mill on the Eastern Cleddau in Pembrokeshire.
  • Fencing off areas along rivers across Wales, so that livestock can no longer contribute to soil erosion on riverbanks
  • Removing blockages like wood debris and plastics from rivers across Wales.
Removing woody debris? Really?

We have had this forced down our throats on the Wye for 24 years and the runs are less than when it all started ..... another wasted opportunity.
 
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Courtneyfish

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This is shocking and as Fixedspool has suggested there is no way that the investment of £1.1million in the whole of wales is going to scratch the surface of what is needed and it does look like we have another quango (Afonydd Cymru) which may be using these funds.

I am deeply suspicious that this is an attempt to circumnavigate the situation whereby angling stakeholders have been alienated by NRW to the point where many have withdrawn all co-operation, particularly those of us who had to endure their tactics at last year's Inquiry. Of course it is an ideal opportunity for AC to expand their empire with the favourable relationship that exists between senior figures in both organisations. Of course all of this will be supported by the Wales Fisheries Forum whereby NRW have surrounded themselves with members who are unlikely to oppose any of their proposals.
You are quite correct in pointing out that the current state of the Wye is hardly a blueprint for success elsewhere in Wales. The future is not bright
 

peterchilton

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I am deeply suspicious that this is an attempt to circumnavigate the situation whereby angling stakeholders have been alienated by NRW to the point where many have withdrawn all co-operation, particularly those of us who had to endure their tactics at last year's Inquiry. Of course it is an ideal opportunity for AC to expand their empire with the favourable relationship that exists between senior figures in both organisations. Of course all of this will be supported by the Wales Fisheries Forum whereby NRW have surrounded themselves with members who are unlikely to oppose any of their proposals.
You are quite correct in pointing out that the current state of the Wye is hardly a blueprint for success elsewhere in Wales. The future is not bright

You are absolutely correct, it seems the meetings and consultations with NRW / EA are merely box ticking exercises, it makes you wonder what they are protecting but one thing for sure is its not the salmon in the river Wye.
 

Daunker

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I saw reported in fixedspool's excellent blog the pollution in the Afon Llynfi reported Sunday, which was reported also on the BBC, where NRW said: "We are currently at the scene of an ongoing pollution incident at Pontithel, near Greater Porthamel.

"It has resulted in around 200 dead bullheads in a seven metre stretch of the Llynfi river. The investigation into the source of the pollution is ongoing."

The BBC also had comments from locals including those who called it in, and combined with another witness who said, "There were hundreds upon hundreds of dead fish - from tiny fry, to Grayling, to a sizeable, nine-inch trout. I think there were between 500-1500 dead fish."

Now the WUF have written a newsletter and it quotes vice chair of Gwent AC, who says: "There are probably tens of thousands of dead fish from the top of the pollution to the Wye confluence. Nearly every fish in this section of river has perished, from the tiniest bullhead to adult trout and grayling, perch, eels, brook lampreys and juvenile salmon".

How can NRW get it so wrong - do they deliberately underplay these things? Are they incompetent? What is going on.
 

peterchilton

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I saw reported in fixedspool's excellent blog the pollution in the Afon Llynfi reported Sunday, which was reported also on the BBC, where NRW said: "We are currently at the scene of an ongoing pollution incident at Pontithel, near Greater Porthamel.

"It has resulted in around 200 dead bullheads in a seven metre stretch of the Llynfi river. The investigation into the source of the pollution is ongoing."

The BBC also had comments from locals including those who called it in, and combined with another witness who said, "There were hundreds upon hundreds of dead fish - from tiny fry, to Grayling, to a sizeable, nine-inch trout. I think there were between 500-1500 dead fish."

Now the WUF have written a newsletter and it quotes vice chair of Gwent AC, who says: "There are probably tens of thousands of dead fish from the top of the pollution to the Wye confluence. Nearly every fish in this section of river has perished, from the tiniest bullhead to adult trout and grayling, perch, eels, brook lampreys and juvenile salmon".

How can NRW get it so wrong - do they deliberately underplay these things? Are they incompetent? What is going on.

You would imagine, all of those things. Its disappointing but similar to their reaction to the algae bloom and phosphate levels ....
 

OURTREV

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"It has resulted in around 200 dead bullheads in a seven metre stretch of the Llynfi river. The investigation into the source of the pollution is ongoing."

The BBC also had comments from locals including those who called it in, and combined with another witness who said, "There were hundreds upon hundreds of dead fish - from tiny fry, to Grayling, to a sizeable, nine-inch trout. I think there were between 500-1500 dead fish."

Now the WUF have written a newsletter and it quotes vice chair of Gwent AC, who says: "There are probably tens of thousands of dead fish from the top of the pollution to the Wye confluence. Nearly every fish in this section of river has perished, from the tiniest bullhead to adult trout and grayling, perch, eels, brook lampreys and juvenile salmon".

How can NRW get it so wrong - do they deliberately underplay these things? Are they incompetent? What is going on.

FAKE NEWS. THEY TAKE US FOR EMASCULATED FOOLS. They are clearly being advised by a total plonker on the other side of the Atlantic. How can we make a fuss outside of this Forum. Nobody knows or for that matter cares what we say on here. Reply to their lies and deceit directly on Twitter. I'm teaching myself how to use this tool and we could bring together lots of environmentalists apart from anglers. :mad:
 

peterchilton

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FAKE NEWS. THEY TAKE US FOR EMASCULATED FOOLS. They are clearly being advised by a total plonker on the other side of the Atlantic. How can we make a fuss outside of this Forum. Nobody knows or for that matter cares what we say on here. Reply to their lies and deceit directly on Twitter. I'm teaching myself how to use this tool and we could bring together lots of environmentalists apart from anglers. :mad:

Post it everywhere, facebook, twitter, instagram, forums, websites etc, apparently they keep their eye on all of them. Isn't the plonker closer to home than that?
 

OURTREV

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I worry for the future of the environment because we are on the edge of bringing in new regulations now we have left the EU, these days everything we do in the UK is WORLD BEATING and there is no doubt in my mind everything the EA or the NRW do in the future will again be WORLD BEATING! :unsure:

I think King Henry 1 died of a surfeit of eels or might have been lampreys, not very likely these days but there are a lot of fish who are going to die of a surfeit of fools and charlatans. :mad:
Trev.
 

Richardgw

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This is not the first time there has been a major pollution incident on the Afon Llynfi. Wonder what the outcome of the last one in 2016 detailed here??


Pollution is now a common occurrence on the Wye system. It just seems to be used as a sewer for everything from farm pesticides, human untreated sewage releases, sheep dip residue, slurry washing off the land, chemical spills (deliberate or otherwise) all killing all the bug life - the bottom of the food chain!!! No wonder the river cannot produce the numbers of fry/parr/smolts it used to.

Just using NRW's official figures for the period November 2018 to November 2019 there were 148 pollution incidents on the Wye of which 6 were classified as high level. Of these 148 incidents only 59 where attended by NRW!! Why didn’t they attend all???

So what have they done about this persistent pollution? Have there been high level prosecutions to act as a deterrent to others? I've mentioned this problem before and until the powers that be fully enforce the existing legislation the situation will just get worse.
 

peterchilton

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I wonder why they cannot put pressure on their 'partners' to sort this kind of thing out. After all their prime actions is -
The Wye and Usk Foundation is a rivers trust that improves the ecology,
habitat and water quality of the rivers Wye and Usk.
 

OURTREV

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More crap that we have to put up with on the River Wye. This free swimming event is at Ross on Wye this Sunday. An event for people that pay f.... all for the pleasure of doing their thing at the expense of those who do pay. I'm hoping for 3 metres of filthy flood water, and sorry if that affects your plans for fishing this week end.
I feel so frustratingly powerless.. Trev.


Come and join me on Sunday morning in Ross-on-Wye for a 3.5k walk along the river Wye, following part of the Wye Valley Walk and a 3.5K guided swim. The morning will begin in Ross-on-Wye, the picturesque market town, perched dramatically above the river Wye in South Herefordshire with St Mary's Church spire which has dominated the skyline of the market town for over 700 years.

Angela Jones has been cold water swimming the river Wye for over 30 years and is highly experienced and qualified. During the swim Angela will show you how to read the river, provide guidance on stroke technique and cover aspects of water safety.

Meeting at the Hope & Anchor car park, Ross-on-Wye 10am (look out for Angela’s mint green coloured Run Wild branded VW). Car parking fees may apply.

Social distancing and government guidelines for health & safety will be followed.

Over 16s. Wetsuits can be provided. Learn about the benefits of cold water dipping in a safety environment.

Booking is essential as places as limited. Please note that tow floats are required on this swim for safety and visibility. Tow floats are available to purchase at the event.

Please note that the swim distance may be altered if necessary due to weather / river conditions.


Book your ticket online now: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/35k-walk-guided-swim-ross-on-wye-tickets-113434016196

To find out more about Angela Jones and Swim Wild Wye and find out about other swim events taking place, please visit the website:

www.swimwildwye.co.uk

www.run-wild.co.uk

???
 
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