Who's Happy with Brexit Now ?

Andrew B

Well-known member
Messages
3,028
Reaction score
2,310
Location
Colne
Brexit,And Covid, the perfect storm to exaggerate scenarios, coupled with media reporting of issues that were not really issues, leads us to the mess we are now in. Fuel supply was not an issue, media hype just propelled a non issue, to headline news, as I ,am sure the media will do the same to any other apparent supply issues in the run up to Christmas! Blame the media, the news or non news are taken as gospel by many, jumpy reactions, post the covid low points, survivalist mentallity!!!!
Lol you’re so right and there’s already Xmas stupidity re Turkeys. Had me laughing today about hearing about this and the panick stricken old lady who had to buy her 40 pound turkey (and that’s just the weight of it) so she can cook At Xmas and throw 38lbs of it away the day after 😂😂
 

Andrew B

Well-known member
Messages
3,028
Reaction score
2,310
Location
Colne
The only real argument that I have heard for Brexit is that it would mean less cheap labour coming into the country and forcing wages down. This was the easy message to send out to the electorate and get them to put their mark in the Leave box, but it was also just another line of bullsh*t to ensure that the public voted for it. I don't know who exactly benefits from Brexit but there are those that have done and will continue to do so, and that is not the general populace of the UK.
As has been evidenced elsewhere, companies will simply look at other ways to improve profit through the use of cheap labour. They will look to other countries with low wages and offshore work, or, for more manual tasks bring the labour in from elsewhere by paying for work visas. It already happens all across engineering firms and other industries, by using cheap labour in places like India, the Phillipines and China. This work is managed from the UK but carried out in other countries. To my mind this is even worse as it means that when delivering these projects or services, the UK gov do not even get the tax from the workforce. It also means that UK companies do not train new starts in any sort of succession planning and we have all witnessed the problems that this brings when, suddenly, that foreign workforce is no longer accessible.
How that one has backfired after reading a story this week about getting paid 30 bats an hour in Lincolnshire to pick Broccoli 😂 £30 an hour to pick Broccoli obviously had me wondering WTF was going on? And one explanation I’ve heard is that normally they would of had seasonal workers flying in from Poland ect and so they now having to pay U.K. citizens 30 bleeding bats an hour to do a job, that previously only hard working Eastern European’s would do.

There’s a huge crisis in America at the Border with all manner of outsiders who are also being awfully exploited are being flown and driven round America without being asked to have the same precautions as everyone else?
Depending on which side or news station the story will differ and I couldn’t blame anyone for wanting a better life, because the Anglo/American power destroyed their own countries?
Nothing would surprise me right now re using millions of people for cheap labour.
 

Birkin

Well-known member
Messages
2,904
Reaction score
804
Location
Cheshire
How that one has backfired after reading a story this week about getting paid 30 bats an hour in Lincolnshire to pick Broccoli 😂 £30 an hour to pick Broccoli obviously had me wondering WTF was going on? And one explanation I’ve heard is that normally they would of had seasonal workers flying in from Poland ect and so they now having to pay U.K. citizens 30 bleeding bats an hour to do a job, that previously only hard working Eastern European’s would do.

There’s a huge crisis in America at the Border with all manner of outsiders who are also being awfully exploited are being flown and driven round America without being asked to have the same precautions as everyone else?
Depending on which side or news station the story will differ and I couldn’t blame anyone for wanting a better life, because the Anglo/American power destroyed their own countries?
Nothing would surprise me right now re using millions of people for cheap labour.
So your assumption is that the UK citizens dont work as hard as Eastern Europeans.
So if the workers are being paid £30 an hour NOW how much could the producer have paid before he had access to cheap labour.
Sounds like the producer was making a fortune from the cheap labour he was employing before Brexit as he would not pay a rate that loses him money.
 

Andrew B

Well-known member
Messages
3,028
Reaction score
2,310
Location
Colne
So your assumption is that the UK citizens dont work as hard as Eastern Europeans.
So if the workers are being paid £30 an hour NOW how much could the producer have paid before he had access to cheap labour.
Sounds like the producer was making a fortune from the cheap labour he was employing before Brexit as he would not pay a rate that loses him money.
If you read the post you may have noticed I made no such assumptions. I merely said that this was an explanation given to me? I thought the same re how much the producer must of been making if it still pays to hike up the wages.
 

salarchaser

Well-known member
Messages
3,694
Reaction score
2,661
Location
Cheshire
So your assumption is that the UK citizens dont work as hard as Eastern Europeans.
So if the workers are being paid £30 an hour NOW how much could the producer have paid before he had access to cheap labour.
Sounds like the producer was making a fortune from the cheap labour he was employing before Brexit as he would not pay a rate that loses him money.
Both you and Andrew B appear to have made the same assumption regarding the producers profitability.
For him to make a fortune then but not now because of labour costs the sale price would remain the same.
Perhaps (s)he's making the same margin this year but sales costs have gone up.
No issue for him, bad news for the consumer.
 

Birkin

Well-known member
Messages
2,904
Reaction score
804
Location
Cheshire
Both you and Andrew B appear to have made the same assumption regarding the producers profitability.
For him to make a fortune then but not now because of labour costs the sale price would remain the same.
Perhaps (s)he's making the same margin this year but sales costs have gone up.
No issue for him, bad news for the consumer.
It's only bad news for the consumer if the producer and retailer uses the hike in wages to rise prices so they can still make a massive profit. This situation is a great money maker for some.
 

Hoddom

Well-known member
Messages
638
Reaction score
671
But we know British workers are lazy and unproductive.

We were told this by Raab, Truss and Patel. They think we’re a feckless work shy bunch so we put them in power.

 

Safranfoer

Well-known member
Messages
9,786
Reaction score
3,231
It's only bad news for the consumer if the producer and retailer uses the hike in wages to rise prices so they can still make a massive profit. This situation is a great money maker for some.
How about when they have a rise in labour costs, energy costs, parts costs, distribution costs and tax/national insurance costs and they raise prices…? Because we will have all of those things by April, and have most of them now. It’s great that businesses are no longer exploiting labour of any kind but that lever could have been pushed at any point during the past 40 years. Given we are all of a sudden buying Boris’s new spin on Brexit that he made up 15 days ago.
 
Last edited:

Safranfoer

Well-known member
Messages
9,786
Reaction score
3,231
So far my only experience of business hardship is the damage done to UK tourism by noisy self obsessed remoaners talking utter rubbish. Like I reminded you earlier do you not remember 'your cards won't work in the atms' and 'planes won't be allowed in UK airspace' etc etc. So I don't really listen to the smartarse left and remoaner wisdom. My point is not to be evasive or insulting but quite seriously I think you give this line of argument far too much credence. It has it's place but it's not the only plausible line of debate to consider!
Imagine, if you will, that there are businesses other than yours. Mine has lost a £400k long-standing contract because of Brexit. It triggered a procurement exercise we couldn’t even take part in because we are based in the UK. We couldn’t even lose the account on merit - or lack thereof. But I’m not even talking about my business because that contract/membership of the EU isn’t fundamental to my operation in the same way that it was for the sectors we have made no plans to support now that we no longer have access to labour and frictionless goods movement. Again - it’s not about remaining in, or accepting poor labour practices (loving how many people that lap up Tory rhetoric and worse are now on the side of the worker - welcome, comrades!). It’s about planning. Or rather - the fact we didn’t.

And what are you on about, it being a leftist remoaner narrative?! The fishing and farming industries voted for it. The chairman of Next isn’t a comrade. Neither is the owner of Wetherspoons. I could say they got what they voted for - but I admire them for demanding a version of Brexit that actually WORKS. Putting people before ideology. Imagine that - the economy is here to serve us, bend the ideology around that. Make Brexit WORK. Don’t just get it done. Do it properly!
 
Last edited:

salarchaser

Well-known member
Messages
3,694
Reaction score
2,661
Location
Cheshire
It's only bad news for the consumer if the producer and retailer uses the hike in wages to rise prices so they can still make a massive profit. This situation is a great money maker for some.
Doesnt matter if the price goes up to make a huge profit or to maintain a slender margin, the price will still have gone up which isnt good for the consumer.

It mightnt be a great money maker for producer, wholesaler, haulier or retailer anyway.
It might just be good for the worker and bad for the consumer.
Its a multifaceted supply chain.
If all the middlemen maintain margin and producers cost go up, consumer price has to go up.
Worker benefits, consumer loses.
Oh and the tax man gains.
Im sure the government will be delighted that cheap labour has gone. Great for the coffers.

Looking at one aspect in isolation is folly.
Campaigners rally call. Brexit and end cheap labour. Better pay for brittish workers. Yay. Whats not to like?
The reality? Better pay for British workers, more tax for HMRC, more cost for the supply chain, greater cost to the consumer. You never hear that in the rallying cry.
Inagine. Greater pay for British workers, increased costs to the British public. Vote for us. :unsure:
 

peterchilton

Well-known member
Messages
2,434
Reaction score
1,085
Location
Mid Wales
So your assumption is that the UK citizens dont work as hard as Eastern Europeans.
So if the workers are being paid £30 an hour NOW how much could the producer have paid before he had access to cheap labour.
Sounds like the producer was making a fortune from the cheap labour he was employing before Brexit as he would not pay a rate that loses him money.
Maybe it was just that, a story
 

Occasional salmon fisher

Well-known member
Messages
4,480
Reaction score
1,681
Doesnt matter if the price goes up to make a huge profit or to maintain a slender margin, the price will still have gone up which isnt good for the consumer.

It mightnt be a great money maker for producer, wholesaler, haulier or retailer anyway.
It might just be good for the worker and bad for the consumer.
Its a multifaceted supply chain.
If all the middlemen maintain margin and producers cost go up, consumer price has to go up.
Worker benefits, consumer loses.
Oh and the tax man gains.
Im sure the government will be delighted that cheap labour has gone. Great for the coffers.

Looking at one aspect in isolation is folly.
Campaigners rally call. Brexit and end cheap labour. Better pay for brittish workers. Yay. Whats not to like?
The reality? Better pay for British workers, more tax for HMRC, more cost for the supply chain, greater cost to the consumer. You never hear that in the rallying cry.
Inagine. Greater pay for British workers, increased costs to the British public. Vote for us. :unsure:

Its a bit like interest rates. If the base rate goes up, the rates charged by the clearing banks also increase and the customers accuse them of making a lot more profit. In reality, most of them just charge a margin over base so make no more or less profit whatever the base rate.

I always find the effects of inflation quite hard to visualise. If everything went up by the same % (prices, costs, wages) then in theory nobody would be any better or worse off. It becomes a problem for individuals/individual businesses if their costs go up but their wages/income don't increase by the same amount.

I remember a wise bank manager saying many years ago (and when a pandemic was something in a movie) that he thought the only way the government could reduce the long term debt in real terms was for inflation to erode it and so thought that they would be keen on a period of quite strong inflation to achieve this.
 
Last edited:

peterchilton

Well-known member
Messages
2,434
Reaction score
1,085
Location
Mid Wales
But we know British workers are lazy and unproductive.

We were told this by Raab, Truss and Patel. They think we’re a feckless work shy bunch so we put them in power.

Lol and the unions said the problem was lack of jobs
 

peterchilton

Well-known member
Messages
2,434
Reaction score
1,085
Location
Mid Wales
Doesnt matter if the price goes up to make a huge profit or to maintain a slender margin, the price will still have gone up which isnt good for the consumer.

It mightnt be a great money maker for producer, wholesaler, haulier or retailer anyway.
It might just be good for the worker and bad for the consumer.
Its a multifaceted supply chain.
If all the middlemen maintain margin and producers cost go up, consumer price has to go up.
Worker benefits, consumer loses.
Oh and the tax man gains.
Im sure the government will be delighted that cheap labour has gone. Great for the coffers.

Looking at one aspect in isolation is folly.
Campaigners rally call. Brexit and end cheap labour. Better pay for brittish workers. Yay. Whats not to like?
The reality? Better pay for British workers, more tax for HMRC, more cost for the supply chain, greater cost to the consumer. You never hear that in the rallying cry.
Inagine. Greater pay for British workers, increased costs to the British public. Vote for us. :unsure:
Ahhhh they had it all planned
 

FaughanPurple

Well-known member
Messages
8,450
Reaction score
1,046
Location
Belfast/Derry
(Awaits peterchilton’s ‘Imagine if CORBYN had been in control something something Diane Abbott!’)
You see this quite a bit. I love the irony that Bojo has turned the country into exactly what they said Corbyn would and in half the time..

I've pals living in Europe, they've none of the issues that England has. Even us in Northern Ireland don't have them.

But it's not Brexit 🤔

A little news clip from my friend in Germany

 

Birkin

Well-known member
Messages
2,904
Reaction score
804
Location
Cheshire
You see this quite a bit. I love the irony that Bojo has turned the country into exactly what they said Corbyn would and in half the time..

I've pals living in Europe, they've none of the issues that England has. Even us in Northern Ireland don't have them.

But it's not Brexit 🤔

A little news clip from my friend in Germany

A political broadcast on behalf of the EU.
As the clip says MEDIA. No interviews with Germans with an alernative view like my old work friend in Hagen.
Three cars at the petrol station yesterday and not one empty space on the Tesco supermarket shelves.
Is this being hyped because its more prevalent in the panic buying south east. Just wondering.
 
Last edited:

Safranfoer

Well-known member
Messages
9,786
Reaction score
3,231
On the one hand, you have the owners of the businesses themselves warning of shortages and price increases due to supply issues.

On the other, you have people's anecdotal experience based on a quick look around one branch.
 

ibm59

Well-known member
Messages
13,621
Reaction score
2,332
1D4E5FF9-6315-4DEE-B226-D9EB359D3FC4.jpeg
 

FaughanPurple

Well-known member
Messages
8,450
Reaction score
1,046
Location
Belfast/Derry
A political broadcast on behalf of the EU.
As the clip says MEDIA. No interviews with Germans with an alernative view like my old work friend in Hagen.
Three cars at the petrol station yesterday and not one empty space on the Tesco supermarket shelves.
Is this being hyped because its more prevalent in the panic buying south east. Just wondering.
As opposed to the Tory/ERG propaganda through BBC, ITV and any amount of MSM outlets on screen or print over the last 40 years..

There's no spin there, just the thoughts of every day people still living in the EU and 1 here in the protocol saying nothing much has changed for us.

Standard of living was already miles ahead in countries like Germany. Its now fallen behind again, at least you got control back, but of what exactly?
 

Safranfoer

Well-known member
Messages
9,786
Reaction score
3,231

Lol :)
Because of the strike at the logistics company supplying Carrefour - lol

There IS a driver shortage across Europe that predates Brexit. But by taking advantage of cabotage, they're able to bridge the gaps to avoid empty shelves - for now. Just like we did when we had our massive driver shortage pre-Brexit - we shared resource with the EU to plug the gaps. Now we can't do that. It's really not hard to grasp, unless you wilfully refuse to. The problem predates Brexit - the sticking plaster solution we had has now been ripped off, leaving us more vulnerable and less resilient. Pre-Brexit, across the EU, there was a shortage of 400,000 drivers. 100,000 of them were ours. Now, the UK carries that shortage alone. EU27 countries still share their 300,000 shortage, together. Do you see?

And again, I will say, it's no reason to remain. But for the love of the sweet baby Jesus managing down our reliance on cabotage while managing up our workforce is just very very basic, common sense. So basic.
 
Last edited:

Birkin

Well-known member
Messages
2,904
Reaction score
804
Location
Cheshire
On the one hand, you have the owners of the businesses themselves warning of shortages and price increases due to supply issues.

On the other, you have people's anecdotal experience based on a quick look around one branch.
Sorry as you say a quick look at the branch I was in. Could add that the other Tesco near my girlfriends had no empty shelves and the petrol station was brimming with two vehicles on Tuesday and Sainsbury,s, which does not have a petrol station, had full shelves last Saturday. The only petrol stations in my area with cars panic buying was when the madia put out the panic of shortages. This lasted for about five days until people realised it was hyped up. Are media are brilliant at that almost as good as Peston.
If the boss of a large retail outlet wanted to justify price increases just put out a rumour of shortages.
 
Top