Who's Happy with Brexit Now ?

ozzyian

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Remoaners are essentially societies noisy malcontents.

If they weren't complaining about staff shortages (mainly because the economy is good and unemployment is low) they would be complaining that the economy is bad and too many people are unemployed.

Either way it would be the fault of Brexit. They already told us that the economy would tank = massive unemployment, now it turns out that staff shortages (largely due to a buoyant economy) are because we left the EU. The one common element in a remoaners thought process is that either outcome is (or would have been) the fault of Brexit despite the fact that they are pretty much diametrically opposed.

This delusional remoaning bs will never end, they are just the malcontents the country always had and they'll never be happy :)


This is not to say of course that the Govt isn't rubbish - it is :) in case anyone hadn't noticed. But rubbish Govts seem to be a global trend.
 
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salarchaser

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Typical, just dismiss things that don't agree with your particular left wing remoaner lean?

I was quoting from Transport Intelligence https://www.ti-insight.com/
Getting fed up with your stereotyping of me as a remoaner. And I'm certainly not left wing.
Also not sure the validity if your point given I discussed 3 points and tried to look at both sides of the argument.
But there you go. I wont be pety and say typical of you, ignore the bulk of the post so you can satiate your desire to use the remoaner badge against people.
You also ignore the fact that Ive repeatedly said, I think brexit was ok in principle and something I would support.
However, I voted remain as there was no definition of WHAT brexit was (yeah, here we go, all those didnt understand, brexit means brexit) nor was there a description of HOW brexit would be delivered.
Back to benefits realisation, heard the rhetoric, yet to see any realisation, but brexit is done, whatever that means.
 

Ypres

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Didn’t take long to blame people on benift! Three quarters of whom are already in employment
I write as someone related to many on benefits. There is now a very large group of people, certainly hundreds of thousands if not more, who have never worked, have children who have never worked and now have grandchildren being brought up in the same culture.
They have smartphones, big TVs, cars and holidays abroad. As I type a large extended family I know are planning an all inclusive three week holiday to Turkey.
Something wrong somewhere.
Benefits should be linked to job opportunities and as little as possible given in cash. Rent, Community Tax, utilities directly deducted. Basic food stuffs and children’s clothes as vouchers. Cookery courses for those who think an eating app is the answer.
It will never happen of course because most politicians are spineless.
 

peterchilton

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Getting fed up with your stereotyping of me as a remoaner. And I'm certainly not left wing.
Also not sure the validity if your point given I discussed 3 points and tried to look at both sides of the argument.
But there you go. I wont be pety and say typical of you, ignore the bulk of the post so you can satiate your desire to use the remoaner badge against people.
You also ignore the fact that Ive repeatedly said, I think brexit was ok in principle and something I would support.
However, I voted remain as there was no definition of WHAT brexit was (yeah, here we go, all those didnt understand, brexit means brexit) nor was there a description of HOW brexit would be delivered.
Back to benefits realisation, heard the rhetoric, yet to see any realisation, but brexit is done, whatever that means.
No I thought we had already decided that Brexit isn't done yet and that it will take a time to settle down when it has been?

Obviously the HGV problem was an underlying one for EU and Europe which was exacerbated by the Pandemic and nothing to do with Brexit, its just malcontent moaning as suggested by Ozzyian (y)
 

peterchilton

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I write as someone related to many on benefits. There is now a very large group of people, certainly hundreds of thousands if not more, who have never worked, have children who have never worked and now have grandchildren being brought up in the same culture.
They have smartphones, big TVs, cars and holidays abroad. As I type a large extended family I know are planning an all inclusive three week holiday to Turkey.
Something wrong somewhere.
Benefits should be linked to job opportunities and as little as possible given in cash. Rent, Community Tax, utilities directly deducted. Basic food stuffs and children’s clothes as vouchers. Cookery courses for those who think an eating app is the answer.
It will never happen of course because most politicians are spineless.
The problem was created by Blair, I think. But, and the huge but is, what do you do with the blameless children of this culture? Make them homeless?
 

Handel

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The 3 top reasons given by hauliers for driver shortage are retirement of older drivers, brexit and IR35.

Employers need to take some responsibilty but their behaviours are often driven by legislation and the supply chain.

Retirement could be for a number of reasons. People genuinely reaching the end of their working life. Perhaps older drivers no longer wanting to put up with poor conditions and being treated as 2nd class citizens.

IR35 sits squarely with the government. It affected the market I was in and similarly with my daughter.
With the burden of proof moving from the supplier to the customer, the issue has been exacerbated.

As has been said elsewhere, everything is reactive. There is little proactive or with foresight.

Sticking with hauliers, there was an existing problem that was obviously going to be compounded by Brexit (as per saffy's post above) but the hauliers assiciation and government havent, or havent been able to assemble a cogent plan to move things forward.

Ostriches spring to mind.
Talking about conditions here are a few things to think about:

Lorries are larger now than 20 years ago, the roads haven't changed much and there are more cars on them, driving a lorry is much more stressful.
Smart motorways require lorry drivers to adapt the way they drive so as to watch out for broken down cars in their lane.
Motorway service stations have hardly any more space for lorries than they did years ago and the facilities are poor and expensive.
Motorway service stations don't have facilities for women lorry drivers.
Larger lorries are much harder to stop outside the motorway network as there is nowhere to park them.
Public facilities have been closed down all over the place as councils don't want to pay for them.
To avoid lorries being driven empty drivers find themselves spending many nights away from home.
Why would anyone want to become a fuel tanker driver when the plan is to switch to electric cars? (Fuel tanker drivers do by and large get home every night but the 4 on, 4 off regime messes up weekends.) The cabotage system never applied to fuel tankers. The problem lies with the oil companies who didn't look after their drivers during lockdown when there was no demand for them because no-one was driving anywhere and using fuel. So a load of them went off and became delivery drivers. Far less stressful.
 

Ypres

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The problem was created by Blair, I think. But, and the huge but is, what do you do with the blameless children of this culture? Make them homeless?
I don’t see where homelessness comes into it. The scenario I outlined ensures rent and utilities paid immediately therefore roof overhead protected over smartphones etc.
 

ozzyian

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No I thought we had already decided that Brexit isn't done yet and that it will take a time to settle down when it has been?

Obviously the HGV problem was an underlying one for EU and Europe which was exacerbated by the Pandemic and nothing to do with Brexit, its just malcontent moaning as suggested by Ozzyian (y)

Anatomy of a British Disaster

A minor shortage of delivery drivers has the effect of some unstocked items at the the supermarket, certainly inconvenient, but hardly worth getting panicky about.

Some total dh (with a vested commercial interest no doubt) places the story to the the media (who definitely have a vested commercial interest) of the possibility of petrol supply problems 'just like the shortage of your freeze dried quinoa at Waitrose'

The media (like the good sensationalists that they are) do their jobs in misinforming the public

The lemmings troop to the petrol stations and create a petrol shortage.

The remoaners blame it on Brexit

3 weeks later the imagined problem is history

The Road Haulage Association mostly get what they want and are able to justify Association Membership fee increases to the hauliers

All interested parties look around for the next British Disaster
 
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tenet

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Doesnt pan out like that.

For one, tax is paid on profits before dividends can be paid. Then income tax at a marginal rate is paid on the dividends received.

Secondly, employees have paid holidays, sick pay and have to be paid redundancy if they are released.
Self-employed get none of those benefits.

Little benefit, signigicant downside.
IR35 punishes a portion of the employment market without providing any protection.

Its a complicated model of risk and reward which removes flexibility for suppliers and contractors.
I would assume that ir35 generally applies to individuals rather than multi employee companies - but happy to be corrected. Regarding holiday pay, again I would assume contractors earn at least 10% more than their employee counterparts but again happy to be corrected.
At the end of the day contractors choose their way of working as there is an upside in having more disposable income than their employee counterpart. In addition "employers" have a win situation as they no longer have an NI liability.
Finally, I think there is a world of difference between schedule d self employed and schedule e employees of their own limited company.
The test about taxable income was highlighted during the pandemic whereby many contractors were in dire straights owing to the fact that most of their income was by way of dividends and thus not subject to NI either by themselves nor their own company.
 

marty31

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The 3 top reasons given by hauliers for driver shortage are retirement of older drivers, brexit and IR35.

Employers need to take some responsibilty but their behaviours are often driven by legislation and the supply chain.

Retirement could be for a number of reasons. People genuinely reaching the end of their working life. Perhaps older drivers no longer wanting to put up with poor conditions and being treated as 2nd class citizens.

IR35 sits squarely with the government. It affected the market I was in and similarly with my daughter.
With the burden of proof moving from the supplier to the customer, the issue has been exacerbated.

As has been said elsewhere, everything is reactive. There is little proactive or with foresight.

Sticking with hauliers, there was an existing problem that was obviously going to be compounded by Brexit (as per saffy's post above) but the hauliers assiciation and government havent, or havent been able to assemble a cogent plan to move things forward.

Ostriches spring to mind.
IR35?? dont know fully the implications, dont realy want too! It sounds hassle for employers! Me thinks! thank god i am retiring and it wont affect me?? Great🤣
 

Aidan Rocks

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I knew this would get messy. I don't like the term remoaner or the term bigot. I see them in the pub most days I go in. If the government says we may not see the benefits in our life time then clearly someone ******* up. Well at least we can have Christmas to look forward to. Only good news is for the turkey 🦃 that is. All of these issues were pointed out and we were told do not be silly. At least we have our boarders, what record numbers this year! Started with a united kingdom will end up a separate Scotland and Wales. Probably the worst government ever and 200k dead because he couldn't make any decisions at the correct time. More interested in votes than doing what is correct. Stupid people make stupid decisions, I wonder why.
 

salarchaser

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I would assume that ir35 generally applies to individuals rather than multi employee companies - but happy to be corrected. Regarding holiday pay, again I would assume contractors earn at least 10% more than their employee counterparts but again happy to be corrected.
At the end of the day contractors choose their way of working as there is an upside in having more disposable income than their employee counterpart. In addition "employers" have a win situation as they no longer have an NI liability.
Finally, I think there is a world of difference between schedule d self employed and schedule e employees of their own limited company.
The test about taxable income was highlighted during the pandemic whereby many contractors were in dire straights owing to the fact that most of their income was by way of dividends and thus not subject to NI either by themselves nor their own company.
I ran myself as a ltd company for a number of years while providing consultancy or body shopping to large organisations.
I would sit next to empoyees of those companies. Bank hols, they got paid, I didnt. Same for hols and sickness.
The companies used resource like me as peak lopping. Surges in demand, recruit contract resource. Dips, get rid. Ive had contracts cancelled with a couple days notice. No redundancy just off you go.

The point Im making us that the upsides cover the down sides.
I chose that route for the flexibility it gave me. My decision when I worked.

As for tax. Corporation tax is 20% of profits (dividends are post corporation tax). Up to the 40% tax threshold you pay personal tax of 7.5%. So I would pay 27.5% tax where an employee would pay 20%.
Similarly above 40% you pay 20% corp tax then 32.5% income tax. A total tax burden of 52.5%
There are some benefits obviously, but not all financial.
I used it as a means of flatting income and tax, not avoiding it.

Yes, my business got paid more than an employee would, but it / I also paid more tax.

IR35 is putting pressure on companies in expensive areas.
Being self employed I could offset expenses against profit. I was also VAT registered. Therefore if I chose to work in london, travel and accommodation was tax deductible. If you then work inside IR35 that isnt the case making working in London unaffordable. Creating a shortage in resource.

Many aquaintences are moving back into permanent employment which has been depressing salaries.

As I said upthread, its not a simple equation.
Just glad I'm out of it.
 

Birkin

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I knew this would get messy. I don't like the term remoaner or the term bigot. I see them in the pub most days I go in. If the government says we may not see the benefits in our life time then clearly someone ******* up. Well at least we can have Christmas to look forward to. Only good news is for the turkey 🦃 that is. All of these issues were pointed out and we were told do not be silly. At least we have our boarders, what record numbers this year! Started with a united kingdom will end up a separate Scotland and Wales. Probably the worst government ever and 200k dead because he couldn't make any decisions at the correct time. More interested in votes than doing what is correct. Stupid people make stupid decisions, I wonder why.
200k dead as a result of inconsiderate people taking no notice of the advice give. EXAMPLE I bought tickets to my local theatre when we came out of the restriction and they were bought on the understanding that masks should be worn in the confined space. Guess what over half the people did not wear then so I would imagine that some will have contracted Covid19. Did they report it of course not. Back to the start of the pandemic and we were given guidelines on the 8th March which of cause not many people took any notice of. My daughters firm got them to work from home on the 16th March, someone taking a bit of notice. The majority still took no notice and some the government had to impose a lockdown. Of cause it’s Boris to blame not the idiots that still think the pandemic has gone and have not worn a mask from the start.
 

salarchaser

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No I thought we had already decided that Brexit isn't done yet and that it will take a time to settle down when it has been?

Obviously the HGV problem was an underlying one for EU and Europe which was exacerbated by the Pandemic and nothing to do with Brexit, its just malcontent moaning as suggested by Ozzyian (y)
I agree the shortage is multifaceted which is why I looked at 3 purported reasons and looked at both sides of the equation. Also commenting on the role employers, customers, governing bodies and the government have to play.
If one item out of that myriad makes me a remoaner then I'll wear the badge. Better that than those Brexiteers who had no idea what they were voting for.

As for waiting for it to "settle down", thats the ostrich position.
The point I've repeatedly made upthread is it shouldnt be passive, hoping for the best, it should be planned, implemented and the success measured as a collective effort.
 

peterchilton

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I didn't realise that iP35 was a Labour Blair / Brown product from back in 1999 supposed to bring an extra £220 million into the revenue coffers.
 

tenet

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Thanks for your post above Salar - I think it fair to say that arriving at nett profit many things can be used to write down the gross income, employer pension contributions come to mind. Notwithstanding my comments I am not against entrepreneurial efforts but we both know that many many folk take the "contractor" route for personal financial benefit.
 

salarchaser

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Thanks for your post above Salar - I think it fair to say that arriving at nett profit many things can be used to write down the gross income, employer pension contributions come to mind. Notwithstanding my comments I am not against entrepreneurial efforts but we both know that many many folk take the "contractor" route for personal financial benefit.
Agreed.

On the pension topic, no contributions to my pension from the company I was providing service to, unlike the person I was sat next to. No company cars, no share buy / share save schemes. No company provided computer or phone. None of the benefits of being a permie.
Though my pension contributions were tax deductible.
Add all those things in and you start to see why contract resource is paid far more than permie resource. Ultimately, the cost to the business is marginably different though they gain the benefit of flexibility.

People get hung up on headlines rather than look at the in depth implications.

It used to be a free for all in years gone by. Long before I went down that route.
Buy a sports car through your business, write it off against tax then sell it to yourself for a fiver.
Have your kitchen done out and book it to the business as catering facilities.
Those days are long gone and rightly so.

Again, from the push for greater restrictions there will be unintended consequences.

Another consideration is the downstream flow of cash.
As a vat registered ltd company, I needed an accountant. I needed professional indemnity and personal liability insurance.
Money through my business contributing to further fueling of the economy.
Drive prople into permanent employment and there is no requirement for that downstream ecconomy.
 

Andrew B

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Well, after the shock of waking up to find we were out of Europe, now the reality.
Think so many folk were like myself and never bothered to vote as thought no chance, mmmmm.
Well here we are. Personally cant find any Brexit voters who can tell me the advantages. In fact don't personally know any Brexit voters.
WE now in a state the Military are driving Ambulances. Talking military working in Pork abattoirs , Military driving our Fuel lorry's, We got No Beaters for the big estates, and on and on.
I remember the old chestnut Foreign fishers in our waters, When all the Quotas were already given out.
The old chestnut , all the foreigners nicking our jobs, when personally most tradesmen in the big city, are mostly Polish or Eastern Europe.
We now got Europe hating us, and who can blame them. It's now a hassle to travel round Europe, . Could go on and on.
We dont see much of Farge, and his Racist rants now. Was it racism one the main reasons we out ?
Please can any Brexit voter tell me the advantage Brexit has given us ???????
I didn’t vote either way, albeit I was never in favour of it.
I’m not clever enough to know the ins and outs, albeit the only thing I thought, that Brexit could of/should of been good for is for our seas round the British isles and perhaps naively thinking it would stop other Countries from being able to rape.......I mean fish our waters.
I remember being taken a back and surprised at the time with the Nations decision and as I’ve stated about Trump in America who is very clever at playing people with the patriotic thing. I think Nigel Farrage with his cigarette and pint, also plays a similar character and whilst he speaks a lot of sense, he’s just as self serving as the rest and he’s as posh as they come and in the same club imo?
Still Brexit or no......imo I have to still be thankful for what we have in the U.K. as it seems that there’s upheaval all over the world right now.
 

Andrew B

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The biggest issue with the negotiations was Theresa May and here "deal" as well as disclosing her redlines or negotiation limits. She gave so much information away to the EU tha there was no way we would be able to negotiate properly. And to be honest, I could have probably done a better job ...
You mean this Theresa May. I always felt rather sorry for her as PM? That was until I read this story about from 2011 which actually defies belief. Absolutely nothing to with Brexit, albeit it does show how she thinks and why you’re probably right in saying you could of done a better job lol.
 

Andrew B

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Remoaners are essentially societies noisy malcontents.

If they weren't complaining about staff shortages (mainly because the economy is good and unemployment is low) they would be complaining that the economy is bad and too many people are unemployed.

Either way it would be the fault of Brexit. They already told us that the economy would tank = massive unemployment, now it turns out that staff shortages (largely due to a buoyant economy) are because we left the EU. The one common element in a remoaners thought process is that either outcome is (or would have been) the fault of Brexit despite the fact that they are pretty much diametrically opposed.

This delusional remoaning bs will never end, they are just the malcontents the country always had and they'll never be happy :)


This is not to say of course that the Govt isn't rubbish - it is :) in case anyone hadn't noticed. But rubbish Govts seem to be a global trend.
Boom!! It’s very much a Global trend and there are times when I just can’t watch the news ie last months scenes in Afghanistan. It’s times like that, that I still try and be thankful for living 5 minutes from a trout stream and still have a government who do get many things right ie them setting up the care home commission that looked into my grans treatment is just one thing I could never be malcontented with.
Time was when I thought everything a conspiracy but if anything this past few years has shown that, they’re often just reacting to stuff?
 

Andrew B

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200k dead as a result of inconsiderate people taking no notice of the advice give. EXAMPLE I bought tickets to my local theatre when we came out of the restriction and they were bought on the understanding that masks should be worn in the confined space. Guess what over half the people did not wear then so I would imagine that some will have contracted Covid19. Did they report it of course not. Back to the start of the pandemic and we were given guidelines on the 8th March which of cause not many people took any notice of. My daughters firm got them to work from home on the 16th March, someone taking a bit of notice. The majority still took no notice and some the government had to impose a lockdown. Of cause it’s Boris to blame not the idiots that still think the pandemic has gone and have not worn a mask from the start.
Xmas was the worst example of that wasn’t it? For the sake of five days, was it worth it?
Talking to someone about this and government, the guy said that no system in history as ever been perfect inc democracy? Still he made the point about the alternative and that whenever folk show him these videos of crowds of people being arrested, he’s never heard a reasonable excuse as to why they’re not at home, keeping the f*** away from any confrontation lol.
We were all taught to cover our mouths as children when we coughed or sneezed and so I’m not sure why some feel the need to kick off about it.
As an unruly kid I tried provoking authority be it a boss at work or Police and it never ended well lol😂😂
 

happy days

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Ive never been more happy or prosperous, everyone I know is the same, and if I am so inclined I can attempt to remove the troughers that steal my taxes and replace them with different troughers, something I couldn't do with the gnomes of Brussels :)
 
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