Who's Happy with Brexit Now ?

ibm59

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Cascade

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a few of the benefits as seen by the Irish Times Martyn Turner
Haha, very good.
Ireland seemed to recover very well indeed from the 2008 financial crash, mainly by attracting foreign investment and lots of well paid jobs in the head offices of companies attracted there by low taxes.
I assume that being free of EU shackles, that the UK should be able to do the same.....even though we are outside of the EU now.
 

Pollowick

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Nobody can be happy with the government's handling of Brexit. They may have 'got it done, but they made a mess of the Brexit negotiations

The biggest issue with the negotiations was Theresa May and here "deal" as well as disclosing her redlines or negotiation limits. She gave so much information away to the EU tha there was no way we would be able to negotiate properly. And to be honest, I could have probably done a better job ...
 

The Flying Scotsman

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Workers complained the migrants were taking their jobs! But in reality theres nobody wants to do the jobs they were doing😂
When the polish turned up in mass my hourly rate halved over night. Then I spent years sorting the mess they would leave behind. Only a handful of the foreign “tradesmen” were actually tradesmen.
I remember sitting eating my piece on site and gaffer having problems with his van lights. The polish joiner walked past and stopped and helped him. 5 mins later he had them working and announced to the gaffer that back home he was a car electrician. The gaffer said is that right well get your tools and off you pop. :ROFLMAO:
Foreign tradesmen did and still do take a lot of business off of local tradesmen.
we were told foreign workers were brought in to fill the jobs that the lazy brits were too good for like picking berries and working in the fish factories.
There’s never been a shortage of tradesmen certainly not up here.
 

marty31

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When the polish turned up in mass my hourly rate halved over night. Then I spent years sorting the mess they would leave behind. Only a handful of the foreign “tradesmen” were actually tradesmen.
I remember sitting eating my piece on site and gaffer having problems with his van lights. The polish joiner walked past and stopped and helped him. 5 mins later he had them working and announced to the gaffer that back home he was a car electrician. The gaffer said is that right well get your tools and off you pop. :ROFLMAO:
Foreign tradesmen did and still do take a lot of business off of local tradesmen.
we were told foreign workers were brought in to fill the jobs that the lazy brits were too good for like picking berries and working in the fish factories.
There’s never been a shortage of tradesmen certainly not up here.
Fruit pickers, hgv drivers, bar/hotel skivies, cleaners, etc, their brickies are slow and ****, there were about 6 on a job i was on, the boss man claimed they were great, on the job by 7 he boasted! I got my eye on them! The boss was really only a translator, 2 (were proper brickies) the rest of the motaly crew were shouted at , and kept right by the polish boss, they looked busy but at the day end produced very little, Scotland seems to be more popular for them than here🤣
 

ibm59

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Jesus just left Chicago , and stole someone’s job in Essen , Germany.
Bleddy immigrants 😂😂

 

Birkin

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Workers complained the migrants were taking their jobs! But in reality theres nobody wants to do the jobs they were doing😂
Probably because our kids had to stay at school and were talked into Education, Education, Education and must go to University to study some nonsensical subject that got them a job at a call centre. In my opinion, for what its worth, I would say that anything up to 50 percent of student at uni are not academic enough to get anything from it other than a large debt.
P.S. Do we think that the shortage of nurses may be something to do with having to get a degree.
 
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Oscar

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If Brexit means we lose the false economy created by mass cheap labour, that alone will make it worth it. Who wouldn’t mind paying a few extra quid for things (everything?) if it means HGV drivers and the like get paid properly?

I’ve still not heard a good argument for staying in tbh.

Oscar.
 

salarchaser

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If Brexit means we lose the false economy created by mass cheap labour, that alone will make it worth it. Who wouldn’t mind paying a few extra quid for things (everything?) if it means HGV drivers and the like get paid properly?

I’ve still not heard a good argument for staying in tbh.

Oscar.
I agree with the principle, but thats the conundrem.
A few quid more to put a few quid more in their pockets. Which they then have to spend on the things that now cost a few quid more. So no better off.

Might work if the rises were ring fenced. But everyone else would want a pay rise because everything has gone up a couple quid which means they wont be able to afford their 2nd foreign holiday unless they get their pay rise which means everything they produce / provide goes up.

Something needs to be done but it aint a simple fix. There would be unintended consequences.
 

Safranfoer

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That’s the thing. If labour goes up, prices go up. You could try and manage that by capping profits, through taxation or whatever - but that’s not gonna happen under this government, right? So prices go up and the new norm is a low wage again. The only way to mend it appears to be either communism or a more compassionate brand of capitalism - which would obviously be of preference but what levers can be pushed to force it? No idea what the answer is but we’ve all seen the price of stuff is already going up. Improving wages just keeps us where we are. Does anyone smart know the economic levers to push here to address it?
 

Finglas

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Voted leave mainly because it just seemed more sensible to have as many decisions as possible made closer to home. I suppose I don’t have any hard evidence that that’s necessarily a good idea but at the very least it seems intuitive. Why have decisions made in Brussels and follow more of their rules than we need to when we can do it here at Westminster?
That doesn’t extend to Scottish independence though, I don’t think Scotland has the economy and resources to go it alone. Anyway, I’ve confidence in Britain and why not ? And that’s not some British superiority stand point but if we can’t back ourselves as a top 10 economy then we really are in a dire situation!
 
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Hoddom

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I don’t remember the leave campaign saying we should leave so we could have inflation? Was that painted on the other side of the bus perhaps?
If there was a need for labour, supplied through movement and that supply is cut off, how will wage inflation and associated inflation, plus inevitable higher interest rates help address the labour supply shortage? Putting up wages does not address the supply issue - unless you actually believe there is a pool of work shy layabouts hiding behind their curtains watching 50“ screen TVs scrounging who will eventually take a job when they pay goes above 50k.
There are only three ways to address the labour shortage in the next 17 years. Immigration, lower the school leaving age or make people work even longer before retirement.
so far the post Brexit government has chosen to pretend there is no labour shortage and that free movement was bad. unfortunately, now we have food, medication and fuel shortages- health care staff shortages and new rules to allow more sewage to be pumped into rivers due to treatment chemicals shortages, they are now relaxing the boarders (That’s not going to help the food already left in the fields to rot of course) Only for a few months mind.
It will be interesting to see how many want to come- why would you? Certainly no need to as we’re keeping on being told there are labour shortages everywhere (absolutely no fuel, food or medicine shortages elsewhere mind you . No evidence of that at all). Why would you want to deal with a load of red tape to work in a country that voted to get rid of you for a 4 month contract when you can move freely elsewhere and there is a labour demand there too. It will be interesting.
meantime the lorry driver test requirements are being lowered so it’s easier to pass - less safe roads is just what we voted for.
oh, and the army are coming out. not sure I remember any of this being mentioned before the referendum?
im sure BoJo et al didn't tell us we needed to leave the EU to get inflation up?
At least northern Irelands boarder is going swimmingly…. Oh… no… sorry about that.
The fisherman are peachy.
Its a breeze and so much cheaper buying anything from Europe These days…. Not.
the US trade deal? Seems Mr Obama was right after all.
UK global trade outside the EU is down 10%. Meantime EU’s global trade is up by 9%.
Our trade with the EU is down hugely- within the EU trage is stable.
still, we’ve got different coloured passports (made in France).
 

Safranfoer

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I learned something reading an article for work that helped me understand why the HGV driver shortage is being felt so acutely now despite it being a problem that predates our exit.

Prior to Brexit, the EU had a 400,000 driver deficit, 100,000 of those ours, shared across 28 countries serving 455 million people. Post-exit, Britain has her 100,000 deficit all to herself, serving 68 million people. Without full cabotage rights, we are not being supported by the EU lorries delivering goods inward in the way we once were. EU member nations still have their 300,000 deficit, but can undertake multiple drops in each others’ countries to smooth over the gaps.
 
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marty31

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Probably because our kids had to stay at school and were talked into Education, Education, Education and must go to University to study some nonsensical subject that got them a job at a call centre. In my opinion, for what its worth, I would say that anything up to 50 percent of student at uni are not academic enough to get anything from it other than a large debt.
P.S. Do we think that the shortage of nurses may be something to do with having to get a degree.
Another one of toney blairs brain waves that didn't work out well🤡
 

Ypres

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One thing that puzzles me is why no reporter who is covering say berry picker shortage in Angus never mentions the high unemployment rate in nearby Dundee. I doubt it is because the reporter is stupid. Is it that the reporter is so left wing they can’t see the obvious. Offer the unemployed on benefits a job picking berries. If they refuse cut their benefits. Apply this across many areas of relatively unskilled work that only needs a little training. Simples but of course incendiary!
 

peterchilton

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As early as 2020, logistics analysts Transport Intelligence reported that Germany had an industry gap of between 45,000 and 60,00 HGV drivers. Predictions for 2024 see this number increasing to up 185,000 by 2027.
In France, there has been a shortage of 43,000 drivers since 2019 and Italy reports a deficit in drivers of around 15,000.
Clearly, the problem is not isolated to the UK, but has been a common issue across Europe for the last couple of years. In total, Europe has an estimated shortage of 400,000 HGV drivers, according to Transport Intelligence.

So maybe its the fault of the pandemic that more or even the average number of drivers couldn't take their HGV test?

Of course that doesn't help the rampant left wing remoaners who are looking to blame brexit for a problem created by the pandemic. Any port in a storm?


Much like in the UK, the pandemic put a delay on new HGV drivers getting their licences. What’s more, many EU employees returned to their home countries after Brexit and chose other lines of work upon their return.
Similar issues to do with pay and poor working conditions mean that many EU countries are facing similar HGV driver shortages
 
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marty31

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One thing that puzzles me is why no reporter who is covering say berry picker shortage in Angus never mentions the high unemployment rate in nearby Dundee. I doubt it is because the reporter is stupid. Is it that the reporter is so left wing they can’t see the obvious. Offer the unemployed on benefits a job picking berries. If they refuse cut their benefits. Apply this across many areas of relatively unskilled work that only needs a little training. Simples but of course incendiary!
We now live in a lazy and obese society, where as so called job seekers cherry pick what jobs the would consider taking, so the alternative is foreign labour who will do this menial work mainly because in their country, the alternatives are not quite as rosey?
 

goosander

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The biggest issue with the negotiations was Theresa May and here "deal" as well as disclosing her redlines or negotiation limits. She gave so much information away to the EU tha there was no way we would be able to negotiate properly. And to be honest, I could have probably done a better job ...
Even the chief negotiator for the E.U. said on the telly that Mrs. May much to there surprise just gave them everything they asked for. I voted for it as i expected it to be dealt with by fair means. B.M.W./Mercs/Audi and others are not going to throw away large market [U.K.] same as we are not going to do the same. I also believed that it would be an opportunity for us to make some of the things ourselves and help create jobs.
I was wrong.
Bob.
 

mows

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One thing that puzzles me is why no reporter who is covering say berry picker shortage in Angus never mentions the high unemployment rate in nearby Dundee. I doubt it is because the reporter is stupid. Is it that the reporter is so left wing they can’t see the obvious. Offer the unemployed on benefits a job picking berries. If they refuse cut their benefits. Apply this across many areas of relatively unskilled work that only needs a little training. Simples but of course incendiary!
Its not that easy.
They need to change the benefit system.
If they take a temp job and it ends.
They go to the back of the benefit system.
It needs changed to account for this.
A lot of the berry picking issue is because the polish gangmasters operated a closed shop and wouldnt work on any farm that had locals picking on it.
Locals were effectively told to get lost by Angus farmers.
Why would these local now want to work for an exceedingly rich farmer, paying them a minimum wage for a few weeks.
An example of a cheap foreign labour campsite for these farms.
To be fair this one does also employ locals, but has been in the press for unreasonable work expectations raised by EU labour.
Screenshot_20211003-104529.png
 

salarchaser

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So maybe its the fault of the pandemic that more or even the average number of drivers couldn't take their HGV test?

Of course that doesn't help the rampart left wing remoaners who are looking to blame brexit for a problem created by the pandemic. Any port in a storm?
The 3 top reasons given by hauliers for driver shortage are retirement of older drivers, brexit and IR35.

Employers need to take some responsibilty but their behaviours are often driven by legislation and the supply chain.

Retirement could be for a number of reasons. People genuinely reaching the end of their working life. Perhaps older drivers no longer wanting to put up with poor conditions and being treated as 2nd class citizens.

IR35 sits squarely with the government. It affected the market I was in and similarly with my daughter.
With the burden of proof moving from the supplier to the customer, the issue has been exacerbated.

As has been said elsewhere, everything is reactive. There is little proactive or with foresight.

Sticking with hauliers, there was an existing problem that was obviously going to be compounded by Brexit (as per saffy's post above) but the hauliers assiciation and government havent, or havent been able to assemble a cogent plan to move things forward.

Ostriches spring to mind.
 

tenet

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As far as I can tell ir35 changes ensure contractors pay the same tax rate as employees. Surely that is only fair or should contractors continue avoid tax by paying themselves dividends?

 

peterchilton

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The 3 top reasons given by hauliers for driver shortage are retirement of older drivers, brexit and IR35.

Employers need to take some responsibilty but their behaviours are often driven by legislation and the supply chain.

Retirement could be for a number of reasons. People genuinely reaching the end of their working life. Perhaps older drivers no longer wanting to put up with poor conditions and being treated as 2nd class citizens.

IR35 sits squarely with the government. It affected the market I was in and similarly with my daughter.
With the burden of proof moving from the supplier to the customer, the issue has been exacerbated.

As has been said elsewhere, everything is reactive. There is little proactive or with foresight.

Sticking with hauliers, there was an existing problem that was obviously going to be compounded by Brexit (as per saffy's post above) but the hauliers association and government havent, or havent been able to assemble a cogent plan to move things forward.

Ostriches spring to mind.
Typical, just dismiss things that don't agree with your particular left wing remoaner lean?

I was quoting from Transport Intelligence https://www.ti-insight.com/
 

salarchaser

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As far as I can tell ir35 changes ensure contractors pay the same tax rate as employees. Surely that is only fair or should contractors continue avoid tax by paying themselves dividends?

Doesnt pan out like that.

For one, tax is paid on profits before dividends can be paid. Then income tax at a marginal rate is paid on the dividends received.

Secondly, employees have paid holidays, sick pay and have to be paid redundancy if they are released.
Self-employed get none of those benefits.

Little benefit, signigicant downside.
IR35 punishes a portion of the employment market without providing any protection.

Its a complicated model of risk and reward which removes flexibility for suppliers and contractors.
 
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