Upstream I or Downstream

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GEK79

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Hello all me again.. I've been walking along my river ready for January and was wondering when casting do I cast upstream into the pools or downstream..? I know with trout it's usually downstream with nymphs and across for dries.. Does it make a difference when trying..Thanks all and apologise for idiot question.
Gary
 

Rrrr

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At most times you would be looking to cast anywhere from straight across to about 45 degrees downstream depending on how fast you want the fly to swing or the spot you want to cover.
There is occasions where you could cast upstream like fishing the frances etc which would be dead drifted.
Most of the time you will be fishing downstream in some way.

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GEK79

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At most times you would be looking to cast anywhere from straight across to about 45 degrees downstream depending on how fast you want the fly to swing or the spot you want to cover.
There is occasions where you could cast upstream like fishing the frances etc which would be dead drifted.
Most of the time you will be fishing downstream in some way.

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Many thanks for your help.
 

Rennie

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The accepted way of fishing for Salmon with the flee is a 45 deg. downstream and across cast. Once you the Angler has a grip of casting well and controlling the flee you could try casts up to 90 deg. straight across the river, which will allow the flee to fish much faster round in the stream.
Upstream cast's have been until fairly recently frowned upon as pure n simple the upstream cast is the favoured tool of those looking to snatch or otherwise foul hook fish!.
There are nowadays recognised techniques that require an upstream cast, how ever its better to find out before fishing if upstream casts are frowned upon where you fish, or indeed if those techniques won't be allowed.I'd also say the techniques that require upstream casts need quite a little more understanding on behalf of the Angler to avoid foul hooking, or being accused of trying to foul hook!.
There's enough in fishing a fly in a conventional fashion to keep most Anglers busy during their days on the water, i 'd save techniques that require upstream cast's until you're a lot higher up the Salmon fishing ladder.
Best of luck, Pedro.
 

Andrew B

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The accepted way of fishing for Salmon with the flee is a 45 deg. downstream and across cast. Once you the Angler has a grip of casting well and controlling the flee you could try casts up to 90 deg. straight across the river, which will allow the flee to fish much faster round in the stream.
Upstream cast's have been until fairly recently frowned upon as pure n simple the upstream cast is the favoured tool of those looking to snatch or otherwise foul hook fish!.
There are nowadays recognised techniques that require an upstream cast, how ever its better to find out before fishing if upstream casts are frowned upon where you fish, or indeed if those techniques won't be allowed.I'd also say the techniques that require upstream casts need quite a little more understanding on behalf of the Angler to avoid foul hooking, or being accused of trying to foul hook!.
There's enough in fishing a fly in a conventional fashion to keep most Anglers busy during their days on the water, i 'd save techniques that require upstream cast's until you're a lot higher up the Salmon fishing ladder.
Best of luck, Pedro.
Wow Rennie I’d no idea about upstream casts and them once being frowned upon because of poaching? Just shows that on new water one needs to read the rules and regulations very carefully as this would never of have occurred to me.
I think for someone who’s very new to fly fishing for salmon lessons would obviously be a great start and I would say the biggest mistake I see is people trying to cast out of a range where they aren’t skilful enough to turn over the fly and fish the fly effectively from the off?
I’m not a good caster and I’m sure I miss out on fish because of it, but I’d rather fish short and fish it well than fish long really badly. I think we all have a sense of when we’ve fished like a plonker and when we’ve fished well?
 

Andrew B

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Hello all me again.. I've been walking along my river ready for January and was wondering when casting do I cast upstream into the pools or downstream..? I know with trout it's usually downstream with nymphs and across for dries.. Does it make a difference when trying..Thanks all and apologise for idiot question.
Gary
How’s it an idiot question? Nobody knows this stuff until they get told or read up on it and even then nobody ever stops learning. Learning to read your river is all part of the fun, since fish lie up according to the height of the water. Try and find out which pools fish best. I’m in the same boat as you, and I wasted about two years in trying to fish everywhere on the river without realising that they’re not like currants in a bun and the minute I started focusing on just a few pools I started to catch fish.
 

Lgraydonflyfishing

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There's no idiot questions at all mate 99.9% of youre fishing will be 45° downstream, keep contact with you fly and let it swing round with the current, move the fly if the current is dying off at the end of the swing or if you prefer, keep contact with a very slow figure of eight retrieve. As the fly stops directly downstream of you "dangle" give the fly/line a few little tweaks you will be surprised how many fish follow you in and grab hold right at the last second. Then take a large step downstream. So easy to get in autopilot doing this (im guilty on many occasions) cast step cast step, but really concentrate because the second you look away or at something on the other bank the line will rip from the water, fish on and you wount be prepared to keep calm and set the hooks properly due to the suprise it given you. If starting in January the fish will be like needles in a haystack BUT THEY WILL BE THERE EVEN IF YOU DONT SEE ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING. Water and temps will be very very cold YOU MUST FISH DEEP AND GET THE FLY RIGHT DOWN TO THERE LEVEL. Again good luck my friend, trail and error. The main thing is effort mate and one time you'll get youre reward. Tight lines Lewis,
 

Andrew B

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There's no idiot questions at all mate 99.9% of youre fishing will be 45° downstream, keep contact with you fly and let it swing round with the current, move the fly if the current is dying off at the end of the swing or if you prefer, keep contact with a very slow figure of eight retrieve. As the fly stops directly downstream of you "dangle" give the fly/line a few little tweaks you will be surprised how many fish follow you in and grab hold right at the last second. Then take a large step downstream. So easy to get in autopilot doing this (im guilty on many occasions) cast step cast step, but really concentrate because the second you look away or at something on the other bank the line will rip from the water, fish on and you wount be prepared to keep calm and set the hooks properly due to the suprise it given you. If starting in January the fish will be like needles in a haystack BUT THEY WILL BE THERE EVEN IF YOU DONT SEE ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING. Water and temps will be very very cold YOU MUST FISH DEEP AND GET THE FLY RIGHT DOWN TO THERE LEVEL. Again good luck my friend, trail and error. The main thing is effort mate and one time you'll get youre reward. Tight lines Lewis,
So the fish that takes on the dangle ( never had one ) are usually from a fish that’s followed the fly round and the tug induces a take? Just to make the OP feel much better I’ve caught a few on the fly but have always done that last bit on auto pilot without realising the aim lol?
 

Lgraydonflyfishing

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So the fish that takes on the dangle ( never had one ) are usually from a fish that’s followed the fly round and the tug induces a take? Just to make the OP feel much better I’ve caught a few on the fly but have always done that last bit on auto pilot without realising the aim lol?
That little bit of movement right at the end of the drift can induce alot of takes mate yeah predominantly sea trout from my experience and they do catch you by suprise haha
 
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GEK79

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There's no idiot questions at all mate 99.9% of youre fishing will be 45° downstream, keep contact with you fly and let it swing round with the current, move the fly if the current is dying off at the end of the swing or if you prefer, keep contact with a very slow figure of eight retrieve. As the fly stops directly downstream of you "dangle" give the fly/line a few little tweaks you will be surprised how many fish follow you in and grab hold right at the last second. Then take a large step downstream. So easy to get in autopilot doing this (im guilty on many occasions) cast step cast step, but really concentrate because the second you look away or at something on the other bank the line will rip from the water, fish on and you wount be prepared to keep calm and set the hooks properly due to the suprise it given you. If starting in January the fish will be like needles in a haystack BUT THEY WILL BE THERE EVEN IF YOU DONT SEE ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING. Water and temps will be very very cold YOU MUST FISH DEEP AND GET THE FLY RIGHT DOWN TO THERE LEVEL. Again good luck my friend, trail and error. The main thing is effort mate and one time you'll get youre reward. Tight lines Lewis,
Jan 1st can't arrive arrive soon enough.. I will keep trying until I get it right and keep trying thank you kindly.
Gary
 

Andrew B

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That little bit of movement right at the end of the drift can induce alot of takes mate yeah predominantly sea trout from my experience and they do catch you by suprise haha
Yes I was gonna say that as it’s sea trout fishing in the dark that I’ve done mostly. I hardly ever mend the line for sea trout as I like that fly to swing fast and yes they do follow it.
90% of the salmon I’ve had have all been whilst sea trout fishing where I have a good idea of what I’m doing.
Whenever I purposefully fish for salmon with a double hander I nearly always end up fishing like a knob and to be honest going through the motions. I’ve a good idea of where I’m going wrong ie fly depth but I always end up doing nothing to change it if that makes sense?
Waddington who invented the waddington shanks of which I still use for sea trout in big water. He wrote about the two depths for catching salmon ie fly fished just under the surface and the fly fished near the bottom and thought that anything in between wasn’t much cop?
 

Andrew B

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Jan 1st can't arrive arrive soon enough.. I will keep trying until I get it right and keep trying thank you kindly.
Gary
Jan the 1st? Just realised you’re in Ireland? Well you’re certainly in the right place for having a chance at such early fish but please don’t get discouraged if nothing shows or indeed takes your fly?
Enjoy the riverside and the learning of your above question about fishing the water across the pool and down, try and recognise if you’re fishing well or not and ask the locals the same questions esp re the gear needed to get your flies in the fishes vision? From the west county to Wales and on here I’ve found that people are so willing to Help folk who are genuine as your original question was.
 
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GEK79

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Jan the 1st? Just realised you’re in Ireland? Well you’re certainly in the right place for having a chance at such early fish but please don’t get discouraged if nothing shows or indeed takes your fly?
Enjoy the riverside and the learning of your above question about fishing the water across the pool and down, try and recognise if you’re fishing well or not and ask the locals the same questions esp re the gear needed to get your flies in the fishes vision? From the west county to Wales and on here I’ve found that people are so willing to Help folk who are genuine as your original question was.
I found people here very friendly and when I joined the fly fishing forum they were really helpful.. I've seen the salmon rising in various pools when fishing for trout and pretty sure I hooked a decent fish and it took my line down to the backing.. So I'm looking forward to fishing.. As for disheartened just being outside with a rod in my jaand makes me happy.. Thanks again..
Gary
 

Andrew B

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I found people here very friendly and when I joined the fly fishing forum they were really helpful.. I've seen the salmon rising in various pools when fishing for trout and pretty sure I hooked a decent fish and it took my line down to the backing.. So I'm looking forward to fishing.. As for disheartened just being outside with a rod in my jaand makes me happy.. Thanks again..
Gary
Ah that’s so good to hear.
Once had a week on the Teifi for Sewin and after four fishless days I came across a bloke catching some nice fish. After pleasantries he told me his name was Dai Lewis son of Dai Lewis who taught the famed Moc Morgan how to fish who in turn taught president Carter how to fish the Teifi. Just him letting me stand next to him for a few hours and watching him catch five nice sea trout, taught me loads and on the following day he gave me the pool to myself and I caught four cracking sea trout on his recommendation of buying an intermediate line.
Might be a few bad apples but Most of our fishing community are so helpful in my experience.
The hook up on a trout fly doesn’t surprise me? One YouTube guy in Ireland has caught a good few grilse on tiny dry flies for trout.
 
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GEK79

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Ah that’s so good to hear.
Once had a week on the Teifi for Sewin and after four fishless days I came across a bloke catching some nice fish. After pleasantries he told me his name was Dai Lewis son of Dai Lewis who taught the famed Moc Morgan how to fish who in turn taught president Carter how to fish the Teifi. Just him letting me stand next to him for a few hours and watching him catch five nice sea trout, taught me loads and on the following day he gave me the pool to myself and I caught four cracking sea trout on his recommendation of buying an intermediate line.
Might be a few bad apples but Most of our fishing community are so helpful in my experience.
The hook up on a trout fly doesn’t surprise me? One YouTube guy in Ireland has caught a good few grilse on tiny dry flies for trout.
I had 4 small salmon parr of a bright green and gold headed nymph.. Puzzled me I had had a terrible day and thought what could go wrong I pulled the fly out the box ugliest shiniest thing I had 4 casts a salmon parr released mug of tea scratched the head and went home.. Its a learning curve and I'm in the right place to learn..
Sounds like you met a true Gent..
Gary
 

Lgraydonflyfishing

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Yes I was gonna say that as it’s sea trout fishing in the dark that I’ve done mostly. I hardly ever mend the line for sea trout as I like that fly to swing fast and yes they do follow it.
90% of the salmon I’ve had have all been whilst sea trout fishing where I have a good idea of what I’m doing.
Whenever I purposefully fish for salmon with a double hander I nearly always end up fishing like a knob and to be honest going through the motions. I’ve a good idea of where I’m going wrong ie fly depth but I always end up doing nothing to change it if that makes sense?
Waddington who invented the waddington shanks of which I still use for sea trout in big water. He wrote about the two depths for catching salmon ie fly fished just under the surface and the fly fished near the bottom and thought that anything in between wasn’t much cop?
Depending on flow mate early season cold temps deep and slow summer season small doubles and up in the water could even try a surface lure/bomber. Late season as the temps drop again deep.... thats by the book as they say. Been just been out and enjoying it is the main thing pal ?
 

Andrew B

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Depending on flow mate early season cold temps deep and slow summer season small doubles and up in the water could even try a surface lure/bomber. Late season as the temps drop again deep.... thats by the book as they say. Been just been out and enjoying it is the main thing pal ?
I’ve had a terrible few years for sea trout on the Dwyfor a river that’s been good to me over the years. I’ve never started earlier than June but I hear you, as last July I literally found one pool out of two miles that had Dovey size fish and I came away thinking I didn’t get the fly down to the bottom. Might just be me but I often struggle getting a fly down as it’s only a few rod lengths. Ever since I lost my favourite heavy waddington peter Ross flies I’ve never been able to get the fly down on a floating line. These huge fish hardly ever show or jump on the Dwyfor. I could probably take one on the worm but it’s kinda meh?
 

Cookie-boy

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Took a trout fishing friend who had only ever fished the chalk streams of Hampshire on his first ever salmon fishing trip to the North Esk at Gannochy. In lowish water I set him up with an 11" grilse rod and floating line with a little silver stoat cone head. Leaving him to it I went downstream for an hour before walking up and checking on him. I found him stood on a rock casting fully upstream into the neck of the pool and figure of eight retrieving, just like he was on the Test. "No, no no!" I cried .....Bang! 16lb silver bar. :cool:
 
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GEK79

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I’ve had a terrible few years for sea trout on the Dwyfor a river that’s been good to me over the years. I’ve never started earlier than June but I hear you, as last July I literally found one pool out of two miles that had Dovey size fish and I came away thinking I didn’t get the fly down to the bottom. Might just be me but I often struggle getting a fly down as it’s only a few rod lengths. Ever since I lost my favourite heavy waddington peter Ross flies I’ve never been able to get the fly down on a floating line. These huge fish hardly ever show or jump on the Dwyfor. I could probably take one on the worm but it’s kinda meh?
A great Welsh river.. I've fished many Welsh Llyns in Gwynedd Conway most of North Wales.. Its where my fishing journey began.. My father is a devoted trout fisherman so we never fished for salmon so it took a move to Ireland to get me started.
 
G

GEK79

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Took a trout fishing friend who had only ever fished the chalk streams of Hampshire on his first ever salmon fishing trip to the North Esk at Gannochy. In lowish water I set him up with an 11" grilse rod and floating line with a little silver stoat cone head. Leaving him to it I went downstream for an hour before walking up and checking on him. I found him stood on a rock casting fully upstream into the neck of the pool and figure of eight retrieving, just like he was on the Test. "No, no no!" I cried .....Bang! 16lb silver bar. :cool:
Sometimes we get it right by doing the right thing and sometimes logic goes out the window.. ??
 

Rrrr

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Also worth mentioning is working the fly. Sometimes they want a slight retreive or slow figure of 8 as it swings around. Other times just casting and letting it swing seems to work.
I rekon learning the pools you intend to fish is most important. If you know where the fish are likely to be then you have more of an idea how to approach the pool and angles etc.

As an example i fish a pool where the fish sit behind submerged stones against the far bank. That means to cover them you have 2 options, either cast fairly square with an upstream mend so the fly drops to them near the bank. The other option to fish it slower would be a heavy fly that sinks quickly. If you were to fish at 45 degrees as normal you would totaly miss them as they just wont be presented with the fly properly.

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G

GEK79

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Hi i take it your fishing the river Drowes??? lovely river
Ahh no the Drowes will come later when I can afford it the bungosteen and oily are between 5 and 15 mins from me I'll drop down there to start my salmon journey.. The Drowes will be fished when I've bought the ticket..
 
G

GEK79

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Also worth mentioning is working the fly. Sometimes they want a slight retreive or slow figure of 8 as it swings around. Other times just casting and letting it swing seems to work.
I rekon learning the pools you intend to fish is most important. If you know where the fish are likely to be then you have more of an idea how to approach the pool and angles etc.

As an example i fish a pool where the fish sit behind submerged stones against the far bank. That means to cover them you have 2 options, either cast fairly square with an upstream mend so the fly drops to them near the bank. The other option to fish it slower would be a heavy fly that sinks quickly. If you were to fish at 45 degrees as normal you would totaly miss them as they just wont be presented with the fly properly.

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Last season I spent most of the summer on the oily River trout fishing and in the floods and levels dropping I've witnessed salmon behaviour and I know where the pools are so all I need to do now is practice all that has been shared here with me and enjoy the next few seasons.. The big pool where most of the guys spin I know there is a huge deep pool but it's in a curve of the river I've seen the salmon there.. I'm really looking forward to it especially just getting out and trying. As always thank you all..
 

Andrew B

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Took a trout fishing friend who had only ever fished the chalk streams of Hampshire on his first ever salmon fishing trip to the North Esk at Gannochy. In lowish water I set him up with an 11" grilse rod and floating line with a little silver stoat cone head. Leaving him to it I went downstream for an hour before walking up and checking on him. I found him stood on a rock casting fully upstream into the neck of the pool and figure of eight retrieving, just like he was on the Test. "No, no no!" I cried .....Bang! 16lb silver bar. :cool:
His reading of the water was spot on.
 
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