Tweed and its Big Sea Trout

ArchieL

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Hi Gents i am not a sea trout fisher but just wondering why the river Tweed and certain other rivers seem to get larger than normal ones caught almost every day. I thought that the size of the fish would be based on the rivers force it runs, and what is required for it to get to the spawning grounds ? You look at the Tay which is a big powerful river yet its sea trout are not that big on average. Compared to the Tweed where almost every day we notice big sea trout over the 10lb being caught. I also have read about other rivers in the UK where the size of the Sea trout are larger than normal and doubles are regular catches.. So my question would be what makes these rivers produce big sea trout ? Also are we to beleive that these sea trout smolts enter the estuary then hang around the coast where they bulk up , i would have thought if this was the case then the Sea anglers would be catching them more regularly ?
 

kingfisher

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Taking it a stage further - why does the South Esk have great runs of seatrout yet it’s near neighbouring North Esk isn’t known for its big seatrout runs?

going back to the Tweed, could it be the prolific feeding one finds in the Tweed for its part/smolts.
 

ArchieL

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AlanT that was an excellent watch , still makes you wonder why some head up to Baltic then return as 2SW fish yet the majority of other fish from East coast rivers do not venture that far. Interesting stuff.
 

Walleye

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AlanT that was an excellent watch , still makes you wonder why some head up to Baltic then return as 2SW fish yet the majority of other fish from East coast rivers do not venture that far. Interesting stuff.
I think it's to do with the last ice age when the North sea was a great land plateau and northern Scotland was under ice.
 

salarchaser

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I believe big sea trout tend to be repeat spawners.
Is there something in the tweed system that lends itself to this behaviour?
The percentage of big seatrout to total catch is certainly high.
I fished the tweed with a group for a number of years. The seatrout we caught were all while targetting salmon and all between 2 and 5lb.
Is it the methods used (i.e. mainly salmon anglers) that skews the figures towards big fish?

The welsh dee has a fish trap at chester weir. Theve had tagged sea trout in the trap up to 6 years running. These fish were in the high teens. These are the exception with fish from 8ozs to a couple pounds the norm. The few Ive caught here have been on trout flies.
 

Rrrr

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I believe big sea trout tend to be repeat spawners.
Is there something in the tweed system that lends itself to this behaviour?
The percentage of big seatrout to total catch is certainly high.
I fished the tweed with a group for a number of years. The seatrout we caught were all while targetting salmon and all between 2 and 5lb.
Is it the methods used (i.e. mainly salmon anglers) that skews the figures towards big fish?

The welsh dee has a fish trap at chester weir. Theve had tagged sea trout in the trap up to 6 years running. These fish were in the high teens. These are the exception with fish from 8ozs to a couple pounds the norm. The few Ive caught here have been on trout flies.
I wouldnt say salmon tactics skew the numbers as i rekon you see as many double figure plus seatrout caught at night as you do during the day with salmon tactics. At least thats the way it seems on the coquet.

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Walleye

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I believe big sea trout tend to be repeat spawners.
Is there something in the tweed system that lends itself to this behaviour?
The percentage of big seatrout to total catch is certainly high.
I fished the tweed with a group for a number of years. The seatrout we caught were all while targetting salmon and all between 2 and 5lb.
Is it the methods used (i.e. mainly salmon anglers) that skews the figures towards big fish?

The welsh dee has a fish trap at chester weir. Theve had tagged sea trout in the trap up to 6 years running. These fish were in the high teens. These are the exception with fish from 8ozs to a couple pounds the norm. The few Ive caught here have been on trout flies.
The video mentions the big tweed and east coast sea trout are maiden fish.
I think elsewhere the big fish are multiple spawners because they don't go far and don't stay at sea long - maybe a few months every year. So a 10lber on the west coast may have been to sea 5-10 times while on the tweed and Durham/Northumbrian rivers it would have been to sea 1-2 times. Each migration is very risky which is probably why a 10lb fish on multi spawners rivers is a fish of a lifetime while on the Wear you have a reasonable chance of catching a double each season.
On the Wear, there are many fish in the 5-10lb bracket and these may be multiple spawners but only maybe twice or three times. My smallest sea trout on the wear is 2lb and I've had many more in the 5-10 lb range than in the <3lb range. Mostly at night. Cracking fishing.
My son saw a shoal of a hundred+ the other day and he estimated they were all in the 5-10lb bracket.
I've heard of small herling being taken on the Wear but those reports seem to be rarer than the big fish reports and I've never caught or seen one in 25 years of fishing the Wear.
 

marty31

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the coquet, aln are the same, something to do with the north east of England, the aln is a local small river yet I have seen ST up to late teens, 10-12lb fish regular, normally very late into October, some entering the river coloured but liced, the earlier fish tend to be smaller, but silver beauties, think its something to do with these fish feeding local and just the native strain to these rivers, hundreds of years ago they were referred to as bull trout! these late fish were not the best of takers.
 

kinnaber

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Tweed sea trout do seem to be unique although the North East rivers generally have these bigger fish . I think the vast majority of Tweed sea trout are caught by salmon fishers and from my own experience and what I’ve heard don’t respond well to traditional night fishing ? I had 3 for 24lbs two seasons back spinning in slightly coloured water and find the average weight around 4-5lbs.
 

Walleye

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Tweed sea trout do seem to be unique although the North East rivers generally have these bigger fish . I think the vast majority of Tweed sea trout are caught by salmon fishers and from my own experience and what I’ve heard don’t respond well to traditional night fishing ? I had 3 for 24lbs two seasons back spinning in slightly coloured water and find the average weight around 4-5lbs.
Does anyone night fish for sea trout on the Tweed? I know they do on the Till but not heard of much on the Tweed. I thought it was frowned upon as it might disturb the salmon.
 

long Preston

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The video mentions the big tweed and east coast sea trout are maiden fish.
I think elsewhere the big fish are multiple spawners because they don't go far and don't stay at sea long - maybe a few months every year. So a 10lber on the west coast may have been to sea 5-10 times while on the tweed and Durham/Northumbrian rivers it would have been to sea 1-2 times. Each migration is very risky which is probably why a 10lb fish on multi spawners rivers is a fish of a lifetime while on the Wear you have a reasonable chance of catching a double each season.
On the Wear, there are many fish in the 5-10lb bracket and these may be multiple spawners but only maybe twice or three times. My smallest sea trout on the wear is 2lb and I've had many more in the 5-10 lb range than in the <3lb range. Mostly at night. Cracking fishing.
My son saw a shoal of a hundred+ the other day and he estimated they were all in the 5-10lb bracket.
I've heard of small herling being taken on the Wear but those reports seem to be rarer than the big fish reports and I've never caught or seen one in 25 years of fishing the Wear.
yep-faster growing shorter lived on east coast-west coast more repeat spawners and longer lives-this is a generalisation of course
 

long Preston

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Tweed sea trout do seem to be unique although the North East rivers generally have these bigger fish . I think the vast majority of Tweed sea trout are caught by salmon fishers and from my own experience and what I’ve heard don’t respond well to traditional night fishing ? I had 3 for 24lbs two seasons back spinning in slightly coloured water and find the average weight around 4-5lbs.
I would love to find some nice glassy tail ends of pools on main tweed-they would be definately catchable
 

Walleye

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There are many unanswered questions though. Sea trout are migratory brown trout. After the last ice age the rivers of Scotland must have been repopulated by migratories from further south. Yet those Northern rivers the trout don't migrate far. I get it for west coast Vs east coast.
Or could the north east coast of Scotland rivers have been populated from migratories from the west coast, around the north coast of Scotland, as the ice receded? And that's why there is a rough cut off line between the short lived longer migrating fish of the east coast and those multi spawners further north on the east coast?
 

ArchieL

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OMG , That fish resembles one of they Dever Springs over fed rainbows in a good way. Absolute tank of a fish and after watching that video you just wonder what places it has visited and what it has been eating when out at sea.
 

AlanT

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You ought to see the size of some of the sea trout that run the East Lothian Tyne.


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The 'wee Tyne' as we call it. To give an idea of the mark of fish, here is the contents of a poachers net from a few years ago. Maddening as it is, it's just to show what lies beneath the surface of this small stream

The wee Tyne runs into the North Sea only 35 miles north of the Tweed so the sea trout are likely using the same feeding grounds as its Tweed cousins

tyne.jpg
 
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Dunbar

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The 'wee Tyne' as we call it. To give an idea of the mark of fish, here is the contents of a poachers net from a few years ago. Maddening as it is, it's just to show what lies beneath the surface of this small stream

The wee Tyne runs into the North Sea only 35 miles north of the Tweed so the sea trout are likely using the same feeding grounds as its Tweed cousins

View attachment 48277
Indeed - there were nearly 60 fish in that net, biggest was about 12lb and nothing much smaller than 4. It’s incredible for such a tiny river. I’ve seen fish up to and probably over 20lb. I think the Tyne is the most northerly river for this population of big sea trout peculiar to the Borders/Northumbria. The Midlothian Esk, next river west does not have the same consistent size of fish. Eye water also has some big ones.


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nickolas

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A few years ago now myself a two pals fished Birgham Dub in first week June for three days after a 3ft rise, the catch 15 sea trout smallest 5lbs and largest 12lbs most around the 8-9lb mark, they regularly get them around the 15lb , also in the far north of Norway a 12lb sea trout is not unusual. Then again look at the big boys in South America (some 12 year old fish), used to go to 30LB not so many years ago now rare, 2 or 3 rivers with really big fish (like the Dovey used to be) and the general fish in other rivers 2-4lbs. Could it be they have a better chance of survival dependant on the fishing grounds they go to and the quality / quantity of food.
 

Walleye

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I know this may not be cause and effect, and there have been other things which impact sea trout numbers, but 3 years ago the Danes were allowed a 5.5 fold increase in the tonnage of sand eels they can catch every year from 80,000 tonnes per year to 450,000 tonnes per year, a significant proportion of which is from UK waters and most from the North sea. The last two years sea trout runs in the Wear have been dismal. Hoping for a little better this year with commercial fishing halted due to Covid for a few weeks, but I'm not so sure it's going to happen.
 

The flying Scotsman

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I know this may not be cause and effect, and there have been other things which impact sea trout numbers, but 3 years ago the Danes were allowed a 5.5 fold increase in the tonnage of sand eels they can catch every year from 80,000 tonnes per year to 450,000 tonnes per year, a significant proportion of which is from UK waters and most from the North sea. The last two years sea trout runs in the Wear have been dismal. Hoping for a little better this year with commercial fishing halted due to Covid for a few weeks, but I'm not so sure it's going to happen.
There has been a huge drop in sand eels in the Tay estuary and the sea trout are not in the numbers they used to be. You used to be able to watch the shoals of sand eels from the piers, thick shoals shimmering in the sunlight. I’ve been working on Broughty Ferry pier lately building fences around the operations centre for the flood control walls being built and could only see a hand full of sand eels in small shoals. In years gone past after landing a sea trout and keeping one for the pot I would put it in a container full of water to keep it fresh and the sand eels would would hanging out its mouth with them swimming around in the container. I’ve not seen that for years. Lately they’ve been spewing up rag worm
 

The flying Scotsman

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The 'wee Tyne' as we call it. To give an idea of the mark of fish, here is the contents of a poachers net from a few years ago. Maddening as it is, it's just to show what lies beneath the surface of this small stream

The wee Tyne runs into the North Sea only 35 miles north of the Tweed so the sea trout are likely using the same feeding grounds as its Tweed cousins

View attachment 48277
What happened to the poacher??
 

ibm59

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There has been a huge drop in sand eels in the Tay estuary and the sea trout are not in the numbers they used to be. You used to be able to watch the shoals of sand eels from the piers, thick shoals shimmering in the sunlight. I’ve been working on Broughty Ferry pier lately building fences around the operations centre for the flood control walls being built and could only see a hand full of sand eels in small shoals. In years gone past after landing a sea trout and keeping one for the pot I would put it in a container full of water to keep it fresh and the sand eels would would hanging out its mouth with them swimming around in the container. I’ve not seen that for years. Lately they’ve been spewing up rag worm
When I worked on tankers in the North Sea , we regularly anchored around the Wee Bankie off the Forth estuary to benefit from the three Ts.

Many Danish trawlers frequented the area hoovering up the sandeel shoals.
No real surprises when the stocks collapsed.

Three Ts ?
Telephone , Television , Tax back. 😉
 
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