The Great Reset - does anyone know what it means?

mows

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I suggest the UNEP report, think that has them (Check annexed) NAOA has daily measurements every day and plots etc. (Must be nearly 20 years worth by now) that’s only one location of course,
like any single measure that has issues. National labs around the world also have daily measurements on line.

but, Cos CO2 isn’t evenly distributed in ambient air globally, getting a single number for a year per-see is a tricky job - and a bit meaningless - RF feedbacks work differently in different locations due to a lot of factors. Optical depth, air quality, baseline atmosphere metrics, lapse rates etc etc Not least the simple ppm measure to show any effect of COVID has large problems because it doesn’t account for natural fluctuations- there were an epic number of huge forest fires last year for eg - what proportion of any change was COVID or other factors...
probably a better measure, if after a crude indicator, woukd be looking at energy consumption globally- there are relatively good metrics for that. although they don’t account for efficiency differentials. Which is important. take the UK as a metric for an Example. Less energy may have been used for cars etc but the energy used may not have been used in ways that emit fewer emissions. Home working in the housing stock we have, with really terrible standards, are much worse than modern offices/builds. we may all even have sat at home in blankets trying to leave the heating off for as long as possible to save a few quid while on furlough, but that doesn’t mean it’s had less impact on concentrations.
Thanks for the explanation.
I think it proves my point.
 

Hoddom

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Thanks for the explanation.
I think it proves my point.
Afraid it absolutely doesn’t at all. It simply suggests that trying to measure a change in ppm at single locations due to COVID is pretty much a useless question. the answer has no bearing on the wider question I think your trying to lay on the answer.
 

mows

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Afraid it absolutely doesn’t at all. It simply suggests that trying to measure a change in ppm at single locations due to COVID is pretty much a useless question. the answer has no bearing on the wider question I think your trying to lay on the answer.
And yet we have been told year on year, exactly how much its went up.
Strange how its too difficult to show changes that could be measured against known changes.
 

Safranfoer

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Climate change is interesting. There are other threads on this forum where people’s lack of connection with nature is felt to be an issue. Yet I see very little that Greta Thunberg and her fellow rising young climate activists want to do that will actively harm the environment - especially now electric battery technology is racing on. I do see a lot that will develop a deeper connection to the value of the natural world and our place in it, and the promotion of local economy and seasonal eating.

Yet you moan about climate change activists, too. People don’t care enough about nature, AND they care too much about nature. Where exactly is the Goldilocks zone that will please you guys?!

I once offered someone a cup of tea. She accepted. I asked her how she liked it - milk? Sugar? - and she said, “oh, just right.” Some of you remind me of her.
 
D

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Climate change is interesting. There are other threads on this forum where people’s lack of connection with nature is felt to be an issue. Yet I see very little that Greta Thunberg and her fellow rising young climate activists want to do that will actively harm the environment - especially now electric battery technology is racing on. I do see a lot that will develop a deeper connection to the value of the natural world and our place in it, and the promotion of local economy and seasonal eating.

Yet you moan about climate change activists, too. People don’t care enough about nature, AND they care too much about nature. Where exactly is the Goldilocks zone that will please you guys?!

I once offered someone a cup of tea. She accepted. I asked her how she liked it - milk? Sugar? - and she said, “oh, just right.” Some of you remind me of her.
The trouble is people (all of us) make a mental construct of what "nature" means to us, individually. The great revelation is there is only ONE and we used to be part of it. Balance, balance, that's all that it takes. Balance within yourself first, knowing who you are, knowing what nature is, and find that balance in nature again. Act consciously, remove the cognitive dissonance from your thinking and find the natural energy wave that will heal your body and mind. God is dead, but nature is our true church.
 
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salarchaser

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Yet I see very little that Greta Thunberg and her fellow rising young climate activists want to do that will actively harm the environment - especially now electric battery technology is racing on.
As we discussed at length on a previous thread. Battery technology is a double edged sword.
Not that green.
The equivalent emissions of 100k miles in a diesel car to produce a battery for an electric car.
Ecological damage to sea beds, poisoned water courses, human suffering.
Really looking after our planet these young greens. 😯

No idea what the answer is, but there is no silver bullet.
Trying to adress single issues. Lots of unintended consequrnces, the government providing grants to go green, businesses jumping on the bandwagon chasing the next profit source arising from misguided initiatives underpinned by tax payers money.

Bertrand Zorbrist from Inferno, Thanos from Avengers.
Maybe they're on to something.
Massively reducing the pressure on the plannet maybe the only way to go.
Not pleasant where analysis of the root cause leads you.
 

Safranfoer

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As we discussed at length on a previous thread. Battery technology is a double edged sword.
Not that green.
The equivalent emissions of 100k miles in a diesel car to produce a battery for an electric car.
Ecological damage to sea beds, poisoned water courses, human suffering.
Really looking after our planet these young greens. 😯

No idea what the answer is, but there is no silver bullet.
Trying to adress single issues. Lots of unintended consequrnces, the government providing grants to go green, businesses jumping on the bandwagon chasing the next profit source arising from misguided initiatives underpinned by tax payers money.

Bertrand Zorbrist from Inferno, Thanos from Avengers.
Maybe they're on to something.
Massively reducing the pressure on the plannet maybe the only way to go.
Not pleasant where analysis of the root cause leads you.
Batteries are becoming greener though - is what I meant. I’m working directly with a manufacturer at the moment and I’m heartened by the progress - I was horrified when I first started working on electric vehicles. But that’s just one aspect of it. Broadly speaking - I think we are handing the world to a generation that will do a better job of caring for it than ours did. I don’t mean this critically of us and the generations above us. There is no ‘fault’ with our generation - I think Greta is a bit hysterical there. Nevertheless - I’m hopeful for man having a healthier relationship with nature, moving forwards.
 

Walleye

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Another example of blatant, lying propaganda perpetuated by seemingly caring Authority.
Despite the message contained in the item below and the resulting supposed feelgood factor
I had a letter through the door mid week advising that if I don't pay an extra £35 for a permit
my brown bin with garden refuse will not be emptied.:(
Honestly, on top of Scotland being already by far the highest taxed country in the U.K. we are
also being smothered by stealth taxes constantly eroding our disposable incomes.
Don't pay it and put your bin out anyway. They did the same thing here 3 years ago but they don't have the means to check whose bins they are supposed to be emptying and whose they aren't.
 

Hoddom

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And yet we have been told year on year, exactly how much its went up.
Strange how its too difficult to show changes that could be measured against known changes.
Did I miss understand your questio? I thought you were asking what difference COVID had made to the emissions delta? Not what the net change in ppm is. Very different question. if you want a gross number for year on year comparison then any one site, measurements are as good as any If the metric method is static. The mean ppm for Feb 2020, just pre COVID was 414.34. The mean for Feb 2021was 416.75. Does that answer the question you were getting at?
 

Bonito

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Batteries are becoming greener though - is what I meant. I’m working directly with a manufacturer at the moment and I’m heartened by the progress - I was horrified when I first started working on electric vehicles. But that’s just one aspect of it. Broadly speaking - I think we are handing the world to a generation that will do a better job of caring for it than ours did. I don’t mean this critically of us and the generations above us. There is no ‘fault’ with our generation - I think Greta is a bit hysterical there. Nevertheless - I’m hopeful for man having a healthier relationship with nature, moving forwards.
So, pray tell, what generates the leccy to charge the batteries/cars. How is it produced, what is the footprint of manufacturing, how many folk have to be poisoned with the lithium mines, where are all the charging points going. We seem to be handing over to a generation who do not know if they are male, female or a T pot.
 

pol_angler

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Tesla owns less than 1% of the global car market but it's valued as much as 9 biggest car makers put together. The world wants to go green.
 
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The steps taken now are those of a child trying to walk, we need quantum-leaps to arrive where we want, if we'll ever get there. The assimilation with nature, in every segment of our societies, be it industrially, economically and socially, will take generations, maybe even millennia. We'll have to deconstruct many of our doctrines (unbridled capitalism, economic growth, etc.), tear down our holy beliefs and radically change direction. It will also cost us blood, sweat and tears to persevere and endure the chaos such a mental and physical transformation engenders. We have a long way to go, and I am not a utopist, but if mankind wants to evolve to a better version of itself and grow to a collective expansion of consciousness, it is the only way to go. Any other way will eventually lead to the destruction of our environment and ourselves. As long as our progress is only for ourselves and not for the good of the living earth (which we are part of) we'll lose the opportunity to make a restart of our evolution. It is not surprising the momentum comes at a time when nature is warning us increasingly. Apparently, when man has to admit his failure he'll try to suck as long as possible on the finger of his hurt ego, rationality will offer him plenty of compromises and pragmatic solutions to dodge the bullet, but the truth nature is showing us cannot be denied and ultimately man will have to give in. There is no escape from the laws of nature. We're losing the power in our gulfstream now, forget batteries, pollution-free travel, or circular economies, when the gulfstream dies it's over for many species on this earth.

I just discovered that my bank, and how I hate them, will make its loans gradually cheaper for initiatives with a growing environmental character. Small steps, but increasingly necessary if we want to avoid falling over.
 
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pol_angler

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Having being stuck in the traffic (who hasn't been?) I used to dread the idea of opening car window. Today I go for a pleasure rides, roll the window down a bit and enjoy the quiet with occasional buzzing of the car battery in the background. One have to experience that to appreciate it.

I get lots of heads turned as well, clearly the desire for quiet and green cars is very high. Just need more of them and city life would become much more enjoyable.
 

salarchaser

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Having being stuck in the traffic (who hasn't been?) I used to dread the idea of opening car window. Today I go for a pleasure rides, roll the window down a bit and enjoy the quiet with occasional buzzing of the car battery in the background. One have to experience that to appreciate it.

I get lots of heads turned as well, clearly the desire for quiet and green cars is very high. Just need more of them and city life would become much more enjoyable.
As Ive said previously, when electric cars stop poluting the planet, causing ecological disasters and resulting in pain and suffering in 3rd world countries, I'll consider one.
No head turning by me. No desire at the moment.
 

Walleye

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The usual mention of human population growth being problematic which really isn't the problem.
The problem is the rise in consumption, which drives generation of wealth through capitalism. That won't halt even if half the world died of the next disease.

All we are seeing now is capital moving into green problems because there is money to be made.
The last time that happened in a big way was the late 70's in the oil crisis when energy costs spiralled. Money moved into electric cars etc but didn't stay because oil soon became very cheap and there was no money to be made.

It really does help to view the world through the lens of economics. Politics is just a way of driving generation of wealth through capitalism. It doesn't matter what colour your politics, its all towards one goal....

Here's an example....there is nothing more socialist than working tax credits and tax thresholds right? They are there to help the low paid, right?
Wrong.
They are massive government subsides to capital in it's search for cheap labour. If we didn't pay these subsidies through our taxes, businesses would be forced to pay a wage high enough that people could reasonably support themselves, which would reduce their profits and thus their creation of wealth.
There are so many ways governments give our money back to businesses which are dressed up as socialism but are really big fat subsidies to business.

Capital rules, and has done for several hundred years since the economic theory of the time that wealth was finite so to get more wealth we had to take it from other countries (recognise that?) to the slave trade which demonstrates how low capital would go for cheap trade, to today's offshoring and outsourcing to low cost regions through globalisation.

Anyway, the "great reset" is just smoke and mirrors to make us believe we are all better off and happier.
 

pol_angler

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As Ive said previously, when electric cars stop poluting the planet, causing ecological disasters and resulting in pain and suffering in 3rd world countries, I'll consider one.
No head turning by me. No desire at the moment.

Sure. It will take time until we can beat green technologies, processes and materials used in production of petrol/diesel powered cars lol

One more thing worth noting. To get the best out of your car battery, you need to tune down your driving style which (if approved and welcomed by most drivers) would greatly improve our road safety. I drove past an awful looking accident this morning - car up side down and on the pavement in a very busy high street area. I walk that pavement almost every day. The car wasn't EV, of course. Being a very polite person, I just thought 'you fooking sh!thead motor-head' :)
 
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American scientists are thinking about building a Noah's Ark on the moon, it'll be safer than the seed bank on Spitsbergen, because they suspect sooner or later a natural Apocalyps or nuclear inferno will destroy much of the life on this planet. A terrifying scenario if you think about it, and a moral boost for all those convinced it's not worth cleaning up our act, because it will create the false impression we can carry on as usual. We'll have a safe and sound backup system when things eventually go wrong, so no need to panic or to call for radical change. Somehow we'll make the world believe we can start over again whenever we want and still make a mend. No probs. We'll have a big reset button on the moon. The pied piper is trying out different tunes.
 

Walleye

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We just need to develop a system of restocking humans. When human life can no longer be sustained because the human's natural environment is destroyed through pollution and lack of food, we just need to restock with humans.
 

seeking

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I keep hearing about a Great Reset. The overarching theme at Davos by the leaders of the WEF and other bodies ( normally folk who have enough lolly to avoid being impacted by anything). The Pandemic has given that opportunity.

but what is it - and don’t point me to some nut job conspiracy sites. Is it the opportunity to go full on green ( because whatever the arguments in climate change - it’s going that way).

Or is it more of a new socialism - that we are seeing with equality etc?

i can’t imagine it’s a massive overhaul of capitalism per se - otherwise all these folk would be like turkeys voting for Christmas and in the event of super radical change would be facing a French style line up for Madame Guillotine?

So what is it??

Cheers, Patrick

Basically as others noted the issue humanity faces is too many people on the planet, but I'd add synchems (plastics included, massively up due to U/S PPE) and "development" per se. The rich elites (and that includes all politicians) will fight tooth and nail to stay where they are. The developing world will as ever get shafted.

CV19 or more importantly the politically-supported global over-reaction to it has shown the way for politicos to stop certain things point blank (freedom, right to move around etc.) with limited justification. Having set a precedent (or, more importantly got away with it!) the use of other minor issues (i.e. the Athropogenic Global Warming hypothesis [difficult to prove, hence it has morphed to "Climate Change" which is the natural and normal state of Earth over the last four billion years]) to justify draconian, never-before-implemented restrictions to "save Earth" (aye, likely) will become the routine.

And it will be got away with because they've just got away with 12 months of antiscientific clap trap...

We have seen the change in capitalism, and a supposedly "free market liberal tory prat" becoming a state-interventionist dictatorship at the drop of a hat with supposedly popular support and control of the media message.

The Davos set will be laughing all the way to the bank that they've managed to hoodwink everyone and cr@p on the developing world yet again!

As we discussed at length on a previous thread. Battery technology is a double edged sword.
Not that green.
The equivalent emissions of 100k miles in a diesel car to produce a battery for an electric car.
Ecological damage to sea beds, poisoned water courses, human suffering.
Really looking after our planet these young greens. 😯

No idea what the answer is, but there is no silver bullet.
Trying to adress single issues. Lots of unintended consequrnces, the government providing grants to go green, businesses jumping on the bandwagon chasing the next profit source arising from misguided initiatives underpinned by tax payers money.

Bertrand Zorbrist from Inferno, Thanos from Avengers.
Maybe they're on to something.
Massively reducing the pressure on the plannet maybe the only way to go.
Not pleasant where analysis of the root cause leads you.

I recall it was an interesting thread.

Still can't believe the level of ignorance shown on here about where the "green metals" required for this so-called "GREEN" revolution come from and what a huge challenge it is.

"Electric cars to save the environment" MRIA!

Swapping 10% of the global fleet of personal vehicles (i.e. excluding freight etc.) would need a >>doubling of Ni-Co-Cu mining. Much of that from developing countries with more lax environmental regs than the West generally. Then we get to the energy required to produce it. More energy to power the charging (and much more copper cabling.)

Ultimately as you know and point out, it's all unsustainable use of scant natural resources.

Wars will follow (if you don't consider CV19 a pre-emptive strike by the only economy that came out of it fine).

It is impossible to replace whole vehicle fleets with so-called "Green vehicles", hence the only way is to used electric cars for the elites (much as it's working out now given the costs!!!) and the poor to walk to work (if they're lucky). Better perhaps to "work from home" :rolleyes:

Too many folk, to much waste of resources, western consumerism cannot be for the masses, only the elites, going forwards.

Ultimately a variation of CO2 cannot explain the Loch Lomond Readvance of the last glacial maximum (the best being 15-10,000 years ago) nor others, let alone previous inexplicable climate change events (variation of annual Norwegian rainfalll over hundreds of years cycles between 2.5m to 0.7m) etc. etc. See the "Climate Change" thread of Salmo Salar.

But they can sure as hell scare the masses witless...

But there really is no "Planet B"
 

Jonsey

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So, pray tell, what generates the leccy to charge the batteries/cars. How is it produced, what is the footprint of manufacturing, how many folk have to be poisoned with the lithium mines, where are all the charging points going. We seem to be handing over to a generation who do not know if they are male, female or a T pot.
At pray tell what generation of degenerates did you parents give way too??
 

ozzyian

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Tesla owns less than 1% of the global car market but it's valued as much as 9 biggest car makers put together. The world wants to go green.

Where I live there has been an unfortunate outbreak of developers putting identikit houses into fields (despite planning permission being denied and then overturned by the Scot Gov - the SNP don't like us here:)) It's become a bit of a local joke that when you pay your £600k to the developer and open your new garage door you find a Tesla model 3 as part of the deal.

The people buying these houses all have strange names like Torquil and Farquhar (but ironically are often English, or sound like it) and they all look vaguely similar to each other - thin, jumpy and ambitious. They work in finance of some sort and their partners work in marketing. Their main car is a BMW 3 series or more likely some form of 2.5 tonne 4WD. Image is important - you need to be seen (by the indentikit neighbours) to be suitably green, otherwise no identikit dinner party invites.

The World you see may appear to want to go green but really are a bunch of excessive consumption western virtue signallers (who are inadvertently creating immense harm through their activities) really going to make any difference? What is more important is China, Indonesia Australia and real America and that's a complex debate to have.

The Tesla market capitalisation is really a total aberration caused by many factors as I am sure you already know. The gargantuan quantities of freshly printed emergency money sloshing around the World economies currently defying gravity has to find a place to go. What better place for Farquhar's pension to invest in than his super awesome car maker?

My personal view is that there is more than a fair amount of fresh air in Teslas share price :):ROFLMAO::):ROFLMAO:. There are a number of newtech companies with market caps in the billions that have never turned a profit and (Tesla included) may never. It's a nonsense world where for example a phone maker named after a fruit has a market cap 4 times that of the total GDP of that excellent country Poland.

You may well be correct in your assertion - thats open to debate. In my opinion though Teslas share price is not evidence:) Just my thoughts.
 
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salarchaser

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Sure. It will take time until we can beat green technologies, processes and materials used in production of petrol/diesel powered cars lol

One more thing worth noting. To get the best out of your car battery, you need to tune down your driving style which (if approved and welcomed by most drivers) would greatly improve our road safety. I drove past an awful looking accident this morning - car up side down and on the pavement in a very busy high street area. I walk that pavement almost every day. The car wasn't EV, of course. Being a very polite person, I just thought 'you fooking sh!thead motor-head' :)
Its estimated that the production of a car battery for EV creates as much polution as driving 100k miles in a diesel. So before an EV car leaves the show room, more pollution than my diesel creates in 6 years driving.
Wow, green. Planet saved. :unsure:
 

Safranfoer

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If you take the pressure off the battery by completely reimagining how the motor works, electric cars become distinctly more sustainable. It’s actually quite exciting. I’d honestly let the engineers crack on with solving the problems they know they have. It’s not like they aren’t very aware of the current environmental impacts of mining. The more I learn about stuff, the more I realise I don’t know - but it’s ok because other people are on it.
 

DrPatrickT

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Basically as others noted the issue humanity faces is too many people on the planet, but I'd add synchems (plastics included, massively up due to U/S PPE) and "development" per se. The rich elites (and that includes all politicians) will fight tooth and nail to stay where they are. The developing world will as ever get shafted.

CV19 or more importantly the politically-supported global over-reaction to it has shown the way for politicos to stop certain things point blank (freedom, right to move around etc.) with limited justification. Having set a precedent (or, more importantly got away with it!) the use of other minor issues (i.e. the Athropogenic Global Warming hypothesis [difficult to prove, hence it has morphed to "Climate Change" which is the natural and normal state of Earth over the last four billion years]) to justify draconian, never-before-implemented restrictions to "save Earth" (aye, likely) will become the routine.

And it will be got away with because they've just got away with 12 months of antiscientific clap trap...

We have seen the change in capitalism, and a supposedly "free market liberal tory prat" becoming a state-interventionist dictatorship at the drop of a hat with supposedly popular support and control of the media message.

The Davos set will be laughing all the way to the bank that they've managed to hoodwink everyone and cr@p on the developing world yet again!



I recall it was an interesting thread.

Still can't believe the level of ignorance shown on here about where the "green metals" required for this so-called "GREEN" revolution come from and what a huge challenge it is.

"Electric cars to save the environment" MRIA!

Swapping 10% of the global fleet of personal vehicles (i.e. excluding freight etc.) would need a >>doubling of Ni-Co-Cu mining. Much of that from developing countries with more lax environmental regs than the West generally. Then we get to the energy required to produce it. More energy to power the charging (and much more copper cabling.)

Ultimately as you know and point out, it's all unsustainable use of scant natural resources.

Wars will follow (if you don't consider CV19 a pre-emptive strike by the only economy that came out of it fine).

It is impossible to replace whole vehicle fleets with so-called "Green vehicles", hence the only way is to used electric cars for the elites (much as it's working out now given the costs!!!) and the poor to walk to work (if they're lucky). Better perhaps to "work from home" :rolleyes:

Too many folk, to much waste of resources, western consumerism cannot be for the masses, only the elites, going forwards.

Ultimately a variation of CO2 cannot explain the Loch Lomond Readvance of the last glacial maximum (the best being 15-10,000 years ago) nor others, let alone previous inexplicable climate change events (variation of annual Norwegian rainfalll over hundreds of years cycles between 2.5m to 0.7m) etc. etc. See the "Climate Change" thread of Salmo Salar.

But they can sure as hell scare the masses witless...

But there really is no "Planet B"
I don’t think the climate cause did themselves any favours by stitching two different data sets together from two completely types of analysis (think it was tree ring growth and some kind of temp extrapolation then linked to temp).

also I haven’t heard a good answer for why if we were 1 km under ice 10,000 years ago - what made that melt? And whatever made that melt through a rise in temp - why can’t it be doing it again?

But hey ho - it is what it is. Green is coming ( wonder if the biomass will grow back fast enough to feed the green biomass power stations). So we’ll just have to get used to it - albeit I don’t understand why we aren’t tapping more nuclear.

I know technology is advancing all the time so assume some bright spark ( ho ho) will eventually get a battery that can go 500 miles and not made from mining all those out of sight 3rd world countries. But until they do, I’ll be using my car.
 
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