The Dreaded Flying C

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ArchieL

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One of the best lures going for getting youngsters in to salmon fishing, can be crancked back at any angle and speed and will catch fish. Do fly fishers strive for the fly that will catch fish and be the ultimate fish catcher ? Fly tyers continually strive to come up with deadly fly patterns and styles to increase their catches so what is the difference in using a lure that has been proven to be the ultimate fish catcher ? For the record i prefer to fly fish but spin when conditions suit spinning. I would have to say when i am fly fishing i prefer not to fish a pool down after it has had a Flying C fished through it as i feel if honest that any taking fish would have had a go at this lure or chased it thus lowering my chances of a fish. So i think jealousy has a lot to do with anglers wanting it banned. I do not want to lose the option of putting on a flying C myself so i have no problems with the lure.

No matter how we look at salmon fishing there is and will always be the fly only brigade who want to push for total bans on spinning as they see the Fly as the purist form of angling. Spinning is often seen as the working mans method of fishing as was typical in years gone by. The fly only purists normally have access to the best rivers and beats which suit their method. Now try and go to an association water where you are queing up for a shot at a pool and i dont think the fly angler purist would be happy having to fish down after someon had spun it with a flying C or bunch or worms.

I think quite a lot of fly fishers like to have waters and beats to themself so that they do not leave a river at night after being blanked and see another angler on the same beat smiling after he has caught fish on the spinner. If he has a problem with this then simply choose to fish fly only beats and do not try to change the rules due to jealousy..
 

kingfisheryh02nxs

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I've never read so much **** this is the reason i hardly bother fishing for salmon anymore, i used to consider myself very adapt at fishing the flying c and i could fish the said spinner round slower than most fly fishers.
Simple fact is that 90% of fly fishers could'nt catch a salmon if it was in a gold fish bowl, hence all the jealousy, they don't fish the conditions, the pool dynamics, just the same old floating line, cast at 45 degrees and let it swing, that's not fishing, that's going through the motions, the 10% know the score and fish the conditions, change tactics, hence why they catch all the fish.
Then you have the angler who says he dosn't like spinning, but does it ocassionly when water is at a certain level, he's like the 90% of fly fishers cast retrieve, no thought into what he's doing what so ever, but by virtue of fishing a weighted lure and getting it down deeper will ocasionly catch, but he show as hell ain't no master of his sport.

I love fishing the flying c, i always fish a black one, red bead and large silver blade, the large blade allows me to fish it very slow like a fly, only i'll be bouncing the bottom, if i aint touching bottom it aint fishing right (for me), people will say what about getting snagged, because i'm fishing it slow, if i get snagged it usual is retiveable, very rarely do i lose a spinner (i'm from yorkshire, losing lures would make me sad, were tight), also i have for many years CUT ONE HOOK OF THE TREBLE, AND NEVER BUY FLYING C'S WITH THOSE MASSIVE TREBLES FITTED. Only once have i wondered if the fish i were releasing was gonna be ok through deep hooking, and i have caught a lot of Salmon, and rarely do i fish the main pools that a flyfisher would want to be fishing, in fact a lot of the water i fish, nobody bothers with, i know my method and the water i like to fish.

The above is the main method i use for Salmon, probably 90% of the time. this method i find to be very ineffective for sea trout.

Just in case anybody dosn't understand you don't have to fish a treble on flying c, just cut one or two of the hooks of with wire cutters (it's that simple).

So can't we all just enjoy our fishing no matter what method we prefer, instead of looking what so and so is doing, try looking at what you yourself are doing (or not doing as the case will most likely be).
 

Rrrr

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I just see it as another tool to catch fish. Alot of the time ill take a fly and spinning rod with me. Ill fish the fly in the streamy bits and spin in likely pools not suited to the fly due to slow water or high banks.
To me it seems crazy to have a couple of miles of river to go at then only fish 1/3 of it and miss out good holding pools.
We dont really get queues to fish on the coquet as we have so much space to fish so fly and spinning anglers seem to co exist quite well.

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Jockiescott

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If I only ever fished pools that hadn't been fished with flying c's, the rod would never be out of the shed. 😂

I've probably never fished a pool that hasn't already been fished through multiple times.
 

scotsmac1

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It funny we want to encourage kids into fishing, the flying c, prob best lure to get both a fish hooked and a new fisher joining our ranks. Also most the best fishers I know all started as kids with worm, and spinners, leading onto fly. and a lot like myself now mainly fish the fly , simply as I enjoy it more.
Then for sure the big one, many folk in later years find wading really challenging, but still love to catch salmon. with a spinner they can fish in welly boats, and no need of fear of wading as they can fish off the bank.
This anti spin lot in my experiance, are predominantly, folk who take up fishing in later years, couple lessons on casting, book their private beat once a year, and get jelous of any spin caught fish. And make up all sorts reasons why it should be banned.
Perhaps if more folk worried about themselves and leave others to their devices, they themselves would become better fishers.
And being honest, I think the worst actions Iv seen on river banks has come from the fly fishers, with their 45 degree cast and swing, walking on lies, spooking any fish for miles, and end of day, they only fishing a spinner on end of a fly line. The more advanced fly is replicating the spinner to the max now.
 

hurricane

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Wow, I never would have thought so many people on here would be so sensitive about their flying condoms.
 

Garnock

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Why not ban everyone from fishing apart from a few flyfishers that would make them happy . I tried for 2 or 3 years ( although probably not hard enough) to get into the double handed fly fishing scene but just didn't enjoy it and after last weekend after forcing myself to have a go on the tay for a few hours, decided on the way home that that was it, why am I persevering with something that I don't enjoy and was probably doing just to try and fit in as I felt sometimes when arriving at a beat the fly fishers weren't to pleased that I was there and was quite often put onto the worst parts of the beats so that the fly fishers were kept happy . Sold all my fly fishing set ups on gumtree during the week and now looking forward to getting back to something I love doing 'spinning after all it's surely all about enjoyment.
 

flytay

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Why not ban everyone from fishing apart from a few flyfishers that would make them happy . I tried for 2 or 3 years ( although probably not hard enough) to get into the double handed fly fishing scene but just didn't enjoy it and after last weekend after forcing myself to have a go on the tay for a few hours, decided on the way home that that was it, why am I persevering with something that I don't enjoy and was probably doing just to try and fit in as I felt sometimes when arriving at a beat the fly fishers weren't to pleased that I was there and was quite often put onto the worst parts of the beats so that the fly fishers were kept happy . Sold all my fly fishing set ups on gumtree during the week and now looking forward to getting back to something I love doing 'spinning after all it's surely all about enjoyment.
Garnock,
Good for you. If you don't enjoy fly fishing then don't do it. We should all remember that we fish for pleasure and if you enjoy spinning then continue to do so.
I'm the opposite. I enjoy fly fishing and I don't spin. I get a huge sense of satisfaction in casting and covering the river well with a fly rod. For me, catching a fish is a bonus and I love the take and playing a fish on a fly rod.
I have a friend fishing the Middle Tweed today. He has caught 4 salmon on the fly and his mate has had 5 fish on a Flying C. It shows that both methods are suitable and the most important thing is that there are fish in the river regardless of the tactics.
Flytay
 

Chicharito

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I have only used a flying C with a single hook once. It was quite easy to retrieve the hook.
Caught a salmon and it had to be despatched because the gill was
damaged although there was no bleeding or very obvious damage.
I have had only a couple of deeply hooked on a flying c treble but also a similar number on the fly.
I very rarely fish an upstream spinner though.
 

Coneheads

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Chicarito. so a single hook FC still fatal ? strange no blood ?or was the hook actually that far down in the gills?

I fish mainly rapalas if/when spinning with 1 treble mounted on the top loop/ring ,I have yet to deep hook a fish ?,this is the best method those that want to return their catch and those that want to give them the last rights,
 

marty31

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Better burn my flyin c and spinning gear obviously it’s not a legal method on here
all methods should be banned unless one prefers to use them themselves! theres many a one thinks massive sunrays are just a spinner fished with a fly rod, but of course they are not, because we like to think that when we fish them we are fishing the fly
 

Chicharito

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Chicarito. so a single hook FC still fatal ? strange no blood ?or was the hook actually that far down in the gills?

I fish mainly rapalas if/when spinning with 1 treble mounted on the top loop/ring ,I have yet to deep hook a fish ?,this is the best method those that want to return their catch and those that want to give them the last rights,
Yes it was. It was really strange! Just a little bit of a nick and no blood!
Tried to release it but it just went belly up. It was a fresh fish and an extremely hot day. Fish was landed after a brief fight probably because it was damaged.
I would certainly try single hooks again and think it was just an unfortunate and hopefully rare occurrence.
 

Petekd

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My young lads flying Cs all got the treatment and trebles replaced for singles after his last fish did this.... Not a hope in hell of getting it out. Beats me how they can hoover a lure like that but I’m looking at a size 12 fishing the same water and contemplating changing to a 14 as it looks “a bit big”....
 

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ArchieL

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Why not ban everyone from fishing apart from a few flyfishers that would make them happy . I tried for 2 or 3 years ( although probably not hard enough) to get into the double handed fly fishing scene but just didn't enjoy it and after last weekend after forcing myself to have a go on the tay for a few hours, decided on the way home that that was it, why am I persevering with something that I don't enjoy and was probably doing just to try and fit in as I felt sometimes when arriving at a beat the fly fishers weren't to pleased that I was there and was quite often put onto the worst parts of the beats so that the fly fishers were kept happy . Sold all my fly fishing set ups on gumtree during the week and now looking forward to getting back to something I love doing 'spinning after all it's surely all about enjoyment.
Mate if you arrived at a Tay beat where i was set up for Fly fishing then i would have been out talking to you and asking you how you were going to set up and approach the beat . I also love getting a look at other anglers spinning collections and how they tie them up as every year you learn something new, i think i am a pretty experienced salmon angler but you are never too old to ask advice or learn from others on even the simplest of things. Good luck with reverting back to spinning.
 

Coneheads

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Mate if you arrived at a Tay beat where i was set up for Fly fishing then i would have been out talking to you and asking you how you were going to set up and approach the beat . I also love getting a look at other anglers spinning collections and how they tie them up as every year you learn something new, i think i am a pretty experienced salmon angler but you are never too old to ask advice or learn from others on even the simplest of things. Good luck with reverting back to spinning.
a flyfisher showing such a great interest in what set up a spin Fisher was using is about as rare as a crocodile donning false teeth 👽
 

hurricane

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My young lads flying Cs all got the treatment and trebles replaced for singles after his last fish did this.... Not a hope in hell of getting it out. Beats me how they can hoover a lure like that but I’m looking at a size 12 fishing the same water and contemplating changing to a 14 as it looks “a bit big”....
i have seen them a lot deeper than that and even if a single hook is used, if it’s take deep, it’s probably curtains......
 

tony considine

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This is a bit of a 'show your age' moment, but I bet there are a few on here who remember the originals.
I was first shown one in about 1978 by an Irish friend who fished the Moy. He said the French boys were catching loads of fish on them.
To me they looked a bit ridiculous and I could hardly believe they caught fish. They were called the Flying Condos, which obviously soon got re-named, and were only available in natural latex. Multi colours soon followed when they were copied.
Most of us have probably caught fish on them, but would you ban them? The problem, if that's the word, is they can make spinning and therefore catching salmon a bit too easy, without having to put in the groundwork. An instant shortcut. You need to know little about salmon or salmon fishing.
Any learner could be taught to go through the motions in about ten minutes and he is now a 'salmon fisherman'.
With a few fish under the belt this can become the preferred method, even on excellent fly water, to the obvious upset to fly fishermen.
Would you ban it? You probably just have to bite your lip! Bans are a very blunt instrument and rope in the 'good,bad and the ugly'.
Nothing wrong with spinning or worming practised responsibly. Trouble is that's like the Government asking the masses to act responsibly, whether panic buying or social distancing!
I can possibly throw some light on deep hooking.
It's quite rare to see your lure taken while spinning. I once put a flying c upstream into a pot below some white water and wound back at pace, as you do. The lure came into sight, then behind it, at even greater pace. a salmon. The salmon didn't take the flying c, it engulfed it!! It overtook the lure with it's mouth wide open like a basking shark and the flying c just disappeared. Naturally the fish was very deep hooked.
If this happens when you can't see what's happening, and I would suspect it does, then that might explain some deep hooking.
t.c.
 

lefthandup

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I've caught a few using the spinning rod but the fight isn't half as good as on the fly.
Still .. there's a place for spinning especially in rivers like the Tweed where you get little decent fly water.
 

Jockiescott

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I've caught a few using the spinning rod but the fight isn't half as good as on the fly.
Still .. there's a place for spinning especially in rivers like the Tweed where you get little decent fly water.
I wouldn't even go as far as the fight. 'The Take' on a fly simply does not compare with any other method that I've used.

That wee split fraction of a second where the line seems to go light in weight, then the powerful draw on the line as you fight you're automatic instinct to strike, then lifting into the take at hopefully the right moment that you can set the hook...

I would personally say that those split seconds in time that I've mentioned above are the very reason I fish.
 

Coneheads

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tony considine
I can possibly throw some light on deep hooking.
It's quite rare to see your lure taken while spinning. I once put a flying c upstream into a pot below some white water and wound back at pace, as you do. The lure came into sight, then behind it, at even greater pace. a salmon. The salmon didn't take the flying c, it engulfed it!! It overtook the lure with it's mouth wide open like a basking shark and the flying c just disappeared. Naturally the fish was very deep hooked.
If this happens when you can't see what's happening, and I would suspect it does, then that might explain some deep hooking.
t.c.
[/QUOTE]
Tony
That is a great explanation/theory of how deep hooking occurs in the upstream FC mode,
But I never deep hook fish casting a rapala upstream ? probably because the rear hooks are removed, and mostly scissor hooked ? and I never purchase or even think about using the 3 trebled plugs,these should be compulsory banned to even produce , never mind sell in shops
If FC 'S cast square across the river, or at any downstream angle the fish does not have to turn and chase it ? it may turn on the take of any fly or spin lure which mostly ends up in the scissors, the place most anglers want their catch to be hooked , I have witnessed salmon follow 1 inch behind a FC and never take it, ? how many unseen casts do fish follow your lure in a days fishing ?
Maybe if someone could do a Falcus viewing froman above perch ? and view fish taking a FC in the upstream mode ,Tony's theory would probably come up trumps ?
 

Coneheads

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I've caught a few using the spinning rod but the fight isn't half as good as on the fly.
Still .. there's a place for spinning especially in rivers like the Tweed where you get little decent fly water.
As jockiescott quoted a totally different take with a fly rod , but maybe the same fight ,But some spin rods are like pokers ?
The fight I have had off some fish on a rapala with the free breakaway swinging hook have been unbelievable , I reckon because the rapala is then swimming alongside the fish in play,? shocks them ? trying to evade what they just took ?
 

Coneheads

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My young lads flying Cs all got the treatment and trebles replaced for singles after his last fish did this.... Not a hope in hell of getting it out. Beats me how they can hoover a lure like that but I’m looking at a size 12 fishing the same water and contemplating changing to a 14 as it looks “a bit big”....
Yes a deep hooker that is
, I once had a guy come to me when I was assembling my rod , asked me ? Have you got a pair of forceps to remove my FC as I can hardly get my hand to it ? 7/8lb chapped salmon it was, yes I got the size 2 treble d FC out with parts of its gills on the hooks , Must of been a 25/30 gram FC , 5 inche long ? with a huge blade/spoon , biggest FC I've seen,
No one should be allowed to fish without a tool ,be it pliers or forceps to unhook any type of fish fish , a question ghillies never ask ?
 

Rrrr

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Yes a deep hooker that is
, I once had a guy come to me when I was assembling my rod , asked me ? Have you got a pair of forceps to remove my FC as I can hardly get my hand to it ? 7/8lb chapped salmon it was, yes I got the size 2 treble d FC out with parts of its gills on the hooks , Must of been a 25/30 gram FC , 5 inche long ? with a huge blade/spoon , biggest FC I've seen,
No one should be allowed to fish without a tool ,be it pliers or forceps to unhook any type of fish fish , a question ghillies never ask ?
Annoys me when i see peopple fishing without any way to remove a hook. You can get a set of hemostat forcepts for 2 quid on ebay so no excuse not to have something suitable clipped to waders or a jacket. I would also make nets compulsary or 1 per party as ive seen some complete bodge jobs of beaching and tailing fish aswel.

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flytay

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I wouldn't even go as far as the fight. 'The Take' on a fly simply does not compare with any other method that I've used.

That wee split fraction of a second where the line seems to go light in weight, then the powerful draw on the line as you fight you're automatic instinct to strike, then lifting into the take at hopefully the right moment that you can set the hook...

I would personally say that those split seconds in time that I've mentioned above are the very reason I fish.
Jockiescott,
I could not agree more. It is those split seconds when the World seems to stop!
I also love the fact that every take is different. Just wished it happened more often!
Flytay
 

flytay

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I commented yesterday on this thread and mentioned that a friend was fishing the Middle Tweed yesterday.

The score at the end of the day was 7 salmon to the fly and 7 to the Flying C. It just shows that both methods can be deadly if there are fish in the river.
 
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