The Dreaded Flying C

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Coneheads

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Just read a couple of threads on here wanting the FC banned , mainly on the Tweed , Lees owner especially some call Lordy on here , West Learmouth rotate with the Lees , and is W.L. fly only too since new ghillie appointment ? As stated the main problem with the FC is single bank beats mainly on the Tweed that do not rotate and are at loggerheads with each other not just with the FC but pool hogging ,etiquette is non existent so bad i would not return to the beats with this on going problem ,and the ghillies do nothing to prevent this "War of the Worlds" If they see the opposition stepping out of line with RTC rules ? they are on to the phone to them like a ton of bricks, like a bunch of school kids dogging them in, Yes i have witnessed this , there is nowt the opposition likes better than get getting the backs up on the opposite bank, probably most single bank beats have the same problem where fly & spin is allowed, the problem more so if the opposition is fly only and do not rotate, the FC is banned on the Tyne Northumbrian Fed beats (http://www.northumbriananglersfed.co.uk/) maybe more AC's and beats will follow suit banning this prolific spinning lure ? because of deep hooking fish and catches more fish than fly, So rods fishing single bank beats on any river be aware of the poor etiquette on some beats, Double bank beats are the ones to fish a peaceful day .
 
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flytay

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I agree with you Coneheads. If you want a peaceful day fish a double bank beat.

I regularly fish at the Lees and know of the past friction between the Lees and West Learmouth. The prolific Learmouth stream alternates between the two beats morning and afternoon. Last season, the Lees never had a fish from the stream in the afternoon if West Learmouth had spun it in the morning.

I think there is now a better arrangement between the two beats.
 

Jockiescott

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I count myself as lucky to have known, and fished with, one of the finest anglers ever to have fished my river. I'll be the first to admit that he and I didn't see eye to eye on many occasions over the numbers of fish he killed, but there is no taking away from the fact that he could fish. He only spun.

I had no hesitation in following that man down a pool with the fly rod. He made his own flying c's and had a knack of fishing them that meant they hit the water with the minimum of fuss and splash. My flies made more of a disturbance at times. People often wondered how he caught so many fish but he had thought about what was required and put those thoughts into action. If there were more people like him at the river, spinning (and flying c's in particular), may not have the poor reputation that it does.

However, he was a one off. Many spinning my river now are doing themselves and the reputation of spinning no good at all.

They don't seem to have time to fish. They seem to spend more time walking, no, RUNNING, between the pools. I had my dogs out one morning and could see a guy 3 fields away, with the bend on the river I could see him in the distance, by the time I had walked the length of one small field, yer man had 3 pools fished and was on his way to the fourth.

They don't fish pools anymore. They run to a pool, batter a lie with about 10 casts, run to the next pool and do the same, and so on and so on.

It doesn't matter to them if anyone else is fishing down into the pool. They run in, batter one lie and onto the next pool.

I put a post on the forum last year about fishing a stream and watching the guy running up the far bank and stepping into the stream half way down, directly opposite me and said it was OK, he was only going to have three or four casts. I'll not type the reply he got.

If flying c's are fished properly and bit of manners and etiquette is shown, I really don't have a problem with it. However, on my river, it seems to attract a certain type of angler and manners seem to mean nothing.

I'm in no way saying that fly anglers are all angels and examples of fine etiquette, as that is simply not true. However, they have to start at the top of the pool and fish down so I have fewer run ins with them.

I'm not saying I want spinning banned. I just wish more people would learn to use the method properly.
 

Rrrr

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I count myself as lucky to have known, and fished with, one of the finest anglers ever to have fished my river. I'll be the first to admit that he and I didn't see eye to eye on many occasions over the numbers of fish he killed, but there is no taking away from the fact that he could fish. He only spun.

I had no hesitation in following that man down a pool with the fly rod. He made his own flying c's and had a knack of fishing them that meant they hit the water with the minimum of fuss and splash. My flies made more of a disturbance at times. People often wondered how he caught so many fish but he had thought about what was required and put those thoughts into action. If there were more people like him at the river, spinning (and flying c's in particular), may not have the poor reputation that it does.

However, he was a one off. Many spinning my river now are doing themselves and the reputation of spinning no good at all.

They don't seem to have time to fish. They seem to spend more time walking, no, RUNNING, between the pools. I had my dogs out one morning and could see a guy 3 fields away, with the bend on the river I could see him in the distance, by the time I had walked the length of one small field, yer man had 3 pools fished and was on his way to the fourth.

They don't fish pools anymore. They run to a pool, batter a lie with about 10 casts, run to the next pool and do the same, and so on and so on.

It doesn't matter to them if anyone else is fishing down into the pool. They run in, batter one lie and onto the next pool.

I put a post on the forum last year about fishing a stream and watching the guy running up the far bank and stepping into the stream half way down, directly opposite me and said it was OK, he was only going to have three or four casts. I'll not type the reply he got.

If flying c's are fished properly and bit of manners and etiquette is shown, I really don't have a problem with it. However, on my river, it seems to attract a certain type of angler and manners seem to mean nothing.

I'm in no way saying that fly anglers are all angels and examples of fine etiquette, as that is simply not true. However, they have to start at the top of the pool and fish down so I have fewer run ins with them.

I'm not saying I want spinning banned. I just wish more people would learn to use the method properly.
I know what you mean about the chuck and hope brigade with the flying cs.
I prefer to fish a mepp anyway as i seem to do better with them but fish them more like a fly. Ill cast them and try to dink them into likely lies or around rocks etc.

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Coneheads

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It's only dreaded if your in the only way all salmon should be caught on the fly camp , I've seen more fish deaply hooked on the fly than the flying c
I have deeply hooked more fish on the fly than a FC as they suck it in, some blow it away ? I wonder if fish also slaps a fly or FC or any lure it with their tail ? Falcus quotes these actions he has witnessed in his Salmon Fishing book,, a 20 gram FC takes some sucking in to deep hook ?,they must just open wide like in the dentists ?,a F C armed with a treble will stick where it first touches in the gill, neb or worse still foul hooked ?
 

Cyclops

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A friend hooked his first fish of the season today, flying c very deeply hooked as it happens.
 

lefthandup

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Remember working on a beat that owned both banks, some of you probably can guess the beats... anyway I apparently was too far over one day and the opposite ghillie was straight on the blower to the ghillie I was working under....
Hence a shouting match over the phone, absolutely pathetic from the complaining ghillie who isn't on that beat anymore...I just pi#hed myself laughing and so did the head ghillie.

I had to chap this one last night spinning..not on a FC but a Toby...first fish I've killed in about 5 years.
 

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Coneheads

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Remember working on a beat that owned both banks, some of you probably can guess the beats... anyway I apparently was too far over one day and the opposite ghillie was straight on the blower to the ghillie I was working under....

If the Beat was owned by both banks ? was it let out to separate banks/syndicates ?, if the ghillie on the opposite bank was on the blower ? why if double bank fishing ?or was it the marching beats either side of yours ?
 
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ArchieL

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Remember working on a beat that owned both banks, some of you probably can guess the beats... anyway I apparently was too far over one day and the opposite ghillie was straight on the blower to the ghillie I was working under....
Hence a shouting match over the phone, absolutely pathetic from the complaining ghillie who isn't on that beat anymore...I just pi#hed myself laughing and so did the head ghillie.

I had to chap this one last night spinning..not on a FC but a Toby...first fish I've killed in about 5 years.
Some times it is better just dispatching a fish rather than doing dentistry work on it and hoping it will survive , Very sensible decision taken by yourself and good that your river has the option to kill a fish if wanted for the table or was badly hooked. I am sure you and many others like myself send many fish back on their way to spawn succesfully so not a big deal taking the odd one. Enjoy eating your fish as i know i would. Well done on capture.
 

Coneheads

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I know what you mean about the chuck and hope brigade with the flying cs.
I prefer to fish a mepp anyway as i seem to do better with them but fish them more like a fly. Ill cast them and try to dink them into likely lies or around rocks etc.

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Rrrr, is the Mepps banned on the Fed waters too ? Or just the Johnnies banned
 

Rrrr

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Rrrr, is the Mepps banned on the Fed waters too ? Or just the Johnnies banned
Only flying cs. You can use a flying bucktail if you like though

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Coneheads

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Only flying cs. You can use a flying bucktail if you like though

Rrrr
Ha ! thats like banning an Ally's Shrimp fly but a Cascade is fine :unsure: , or banning a Sunray Shadow & allowing a Collie dog ? A Flying bucktail is a bladed spoon very simular to a F.C as a Mepps is too , such a strange ruling the Fed have :unsure:

I have grassed a large spring salmon on the Tay in the past that took a 30 gram Salmo Toby, the lure was not visible, totally swallowed it ,2 spilt rings on the rear and swivel& split ring on the front ,approx 7 inches total length treble to swivel , puts this lure on parr with any F.C. so seems salmon do suck lures in as well as flie ?.
Plugs very seldom are taken deep , and even less so if 1 upper treble mounted on them.
All plugs with multi trebles mounted should be banned on any river system
 

hurricane

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IMO the flying c is the deadliest method of all, even more so than the prawn.

I don’t have a big issue with it, but you do find those that fish it jump in front of you or cast over your line.

Another reason is so deadly is they tend to stay on when hooked, and do take them
Deep.
 

lefthandup

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Some times it is better just dispatching a fish rather than doing dentistry work on it and hoping it will survive , Very sensible decision taken by yourself and good that your river has the option to kill a fish if wanted for the table or was badly hooked. I am sure you and many others like myself send many fish back on their way to spawn succesfully so not a big deal taking the odd one. Enjoy eating your fish as i know i would. Well done on capture.
That fish was hooked right through the left eye....I've no idea if it would survive if returned but I'm sure it would be in a hell of a lot of pain so I dispatched it .
 

scotsmac1

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Funny how it always the fly guys who moan. Were fishers not casters, and at times the spinner is the tool to use. Personally I fish the fly, i enjoy. But being honest Iv seen much more damage with fly fishers, either wading to deep, splashing water to a foam. It starnge , mid life crisses comes to mind, many folk pick up fly fishing in later years, have couple lessons, and suddenly they a fisher. Wheras a lot spinners, especially folk who good, been doing it years, and are proper fishers, not casters.
End of day, theirs good bad in all situations, but far to often through jealousy this is banned and thats banned. It does seam more prominent in UK, as where I fish in Norway, it not looked down to fish a spinner same like here
 

Richardgw

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IMO the flying c is the deadliest method of all, even more so than the prawn.

I don’t have a big issue with it, but you do find those that fish it jump in front of you or cast over your line.

Another reason is so deadly is they tend to stay on when hooked, and do take them
Deep.
Singe hook barbless - simple C&R. What is the problem? Jealousy because the spinners are better fish catches than you!!!

The rule for fishing from the opposite banks is you only fish to the middle of the river although the legal position (in England) is that you can wade to the middle and can cast as far as you want. You pick your beats and pays yours money. My preference is fly but I live side by side with spinners without problems. Indeed I often carry both fly and spinning rods always trying the fly rod first.

I think it is a cases of live and let live. Fly when right, spin as allowed and worm/shrimp as appropriate. I can show you some good waters where fly and spin are waste of time/impossible
 

Wee Double

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I fish the flying C a bit in Scotland, but mainly on stretches of river where there's little flow and frustrating with the fly. Not had any problems with people jumping in front of me though, and agree they are one of the most successful lures.

What I do hate about them is when small fish, including wild brownies, is when they clamp down on them and the three barbs are through the lower and upper lip and you can't open the mouth to remove them. I hate seeing fish hooked like that, makes me feel guilty for using them, but I still do when I think it might save a blank.

Dreaded or not, always have a few in the bag!

Cheers

WD
 

Coneheads

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The "Flying Condom" or "Flying Prawn" as it named when it emerged in the 1980's, Gets called a Johnnie by fly only ghillies,
Why many deep hookers ? a salmon will take a toby or plug in the top half of the lure , but not a FC ? is it the waggling tails of the FC that the fish attacks ? these tails end up way down in the gill region, if fish took the FC side on as in plugs, they would never be deep hooked

Hurricane quote,,, The FC is the deadliest method ?
Nope def not !
1st,-- Prawn and Shrimp is the deadliest ,and always will be , Thats why its banned
2nd--,FC Rapala and Visions ,
3rd-- fly ,toby,mepps, devons worm
 

Jockiescott

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That fish was hooked right through the left eye....I've no idea if it would survive if returned but I'm sure it would be in a hell of a lot of pain so I dispatched it .
I've had to keep one fish since 2010. I've had fish where the fly is deep in the mouth but easily removed with forceps. Unfortunately when the flying c was at the same depth, It was impossible to remove without doing damage.

The fish I had to keep was a single hooked fly. It wasn't how deep in the throat the fly was but when I removed the fly, the blood pulsed out of the fish. No way it would have survived so dispatched as quickly as possible.

To this day, if I couldn't find my priest I wouldn't fish. The priest and forceps are the first things I check I have with me before fishing.
 

hurricane

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1st,-- Prawn and Shrimp is the deadliest ,and always will be , Thats why its banned
That’s not 100% true, it’s very dependent on the type of river you fish in terms of its effectiveness.

Yes it’s banned on many spate rivers as people antagonise fish with the prawn and it’s can be deadly in this respect. In non-spate rivers where fish are free to run, the flying c covers water like nothing else!

Another reason the prawn is banned is due to the impression it spooks fish, putting them
Of the take to other methods.....there certainly is some truth in that. However if there was one method perfect for catch and release, it’s the prawn, they never take it deep!

Singe hook barbless - simple C&R. What is the problem? Jealousy because the spinners are better fish catches than you!!!

The rule for fishing from the opposite banks is you only fish to the middle of the river although the legal position (in England) is that you can wade to the middle and can cast as far as you want. You pick your beats and pays yours money. My preference is fly but I live side by side with spinners without problems. Indeed I often carry both fly and spinning rods always trying the fly rod first.

I think it is a cases of live and let live. Fly when right, spin as allowed and worm/shrimp as appropriate. I can show you some good waters where fly and spin are waste of time/impossible
What’s to be jealous about? I’m free to fish the flying c if I like and I don’t agree with banning spinning.

However in terms of C and R, flying c’a can be taken very deep, I’ve seen it many times. I’ve had fish where I could only get the flying c out once I had gutted the fish and cut the head of. A Toby spoon or copper/silver spoon would be more friendly to the fish, nearly always the hooked around the scissors.

Worming has no place being associated with C and R.
 
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Richardgw

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What I do hate about them is when small fish, including wild brownies, is when they clamp down on them and the three barbs are through the lower and upper lip and you can't open the mouth to remove them. I hate seeing fish hooked like that, makes me feel guilty for using them, but I still do when I think it might save a blank.

Dreaded or not, always have a few in the bag!

Cheers

WD
Why a treble. Use a single hook - problem solved
 

Coneheads

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Quote Hurricane
Of the take to other methods.....there certainly is some truth in that. However if there was one method perfect for catch and release, it’s the prawn, they never take it deep!

I have had a few fish deep hooked fishing a free lined shrimp and prawn way back when in the past, retrieving slowly, but never deep hooked when float fished ? as they sometimes engulf the shrimp/prawn free lined , as in the FC

Single hook FC's is the way forward
 
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