Snake Roll

charlieH

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I'm no casting instructor, but I do use the snake roll quite a bit, in preference to the double spey. And I find it surprising that he contradicts what I've always been told was the key to a good snake roll - namely constant acceleration throughout the cast. He explicitly says that you should start quicker than you finish. Also, breaking it down into four distinct so-called strokes, rather than seeing it as a single rotary movement, might encourage people to pause between the strokes, which again I thought was a no-no - I've always understood that the cast relies on constant (accelerating) motion throughout.

Perhaps the quick 'first stroke' he describes works with a very short headed line, but with a longer belly - and certainly with anything sinky on the front end which needs to be brought to the surface - I'd have thought that a more gentle lift before going into the rotation would be preferable.
 

Rrrr

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It was one of his videos or the guy from sages videos where i learned to snake roll from as i remember the hotdog in the sky thing and it does work. I find it alot easier than a double spey with a shooting head.

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New Era

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I'm no casting instructor, but I do use the snake roll quite a bit, in preference to the double spey. And I find it surprising that he contradicts what I've always been told was the key to a good snake roll - namely constant acceleration throughout the cast. He explicitly says that you should start quicker than you finish. Also, breaking it down into four distinct so-called strokes, rather than seeing it as a single rotary movement, might encourage people to pause between the strokes, which again I thought was a no-no - I've always understood that the cast relies on constant (accelerating) motion throughout.

Perhaps the quick 'first stroke' he describes works with a very short headed line, but with a longer belly - and certainly with anything sinky on the front end which needs to be brought to the surface - I'd have thought that a more gentle lift before going into the rotation would be preferable.

No way when doing any spey,single, double,snake roll , snap T or any splash and go cast ? do you pause ! as the cast as it totally fails ! I don't see any pauses in this video as he executes the perfect snake roll ? He just explains it in a way that is easy to understand,

The only fly rod cast I know where there is a pause is the overhead cast ?
 

minitube

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Its a good video breakdown of the cast in my opinion although he changes stance and body plane a little to speak to the camera. No problem in that when you know its for explanation purposes.

There are differences between people as to how they cast, and there may be optimum ways with different outfits, different wading depths. This guy uses upper body rotation well when forming the D loop and most short line casters don't.

There are pauses in some Spey casts New Era, nothing wrong with a slight pause in a snake roll too if you have allowed for it, or if you're not wading in deep. Pauses do and should occur in some Spey casts, most particularly in waterborne anchor casts like snap T / C or Double Spey. They occur just after forming the D loop and while at the Key or firing position before making the forward cast.

For splash and go casts like the single Spey or Snake Roll generally there is normally continuous movement, however there is a choice of continuous movement / motion using a tempo for the line length that suits no pause for splash and go casts, or alternatively some people will power the D loop up more - even on their splash and go Single Spey cast - then pause slightly at the key position. This is done especially with longer lines. Their rod tip path will change slightly too.

The thing is that everything in the execution of a cast is interdependent and interconnected, so basically individual people will vary and have their individual nuances. An individual may do things differently from the general way things are done normally or by the majority. Some people use continuous motion for splash and go, perhaps most, some experienced casters don't. However if you're going to use a pause there will be enough energy and line momentum put in to D loop formation to allow you to do so frst, otherwise things will collapse and die.

Generally on almost all waterbourne anchor casts there should be a slight pause as the D loop forms just before the forward cast. This is because more energy has been used to form the D loop to pick the line up from the water and if a forward cast was made too early with the very taut line still having energy and momentum, it will pull the anchor out of the water and spoil the cast. However Skagit casters use continuous motion doing this with their softer rods and shorter, heavier lines, and get confused between continuous motion and continuous loading in the process, but that is another story. It may also be the reason why you thought there was no pause in Spey casts New Era - from Skagit videos.

Charlie H, you are correct in what you say in my experience, and with a Spey line or longer line fast movements at the beginning just don't work, nor will they do anything to start to lift sink tips. Slow and steady lifts, increasing tempo to push over the top, after the turn back really increase in tempo and power into the D loop is the way. The caster in the video may think he is doing something different, and if he actually is, its because is he is using a shorter line with a shorter rod and not wading too deep, so can get away with it. However when I look at it, to me he does not seem to be doing what he says or thinks he is doing regarding tempo at the start. The tempo on the first part does not look quick as he says or perhaps thinks, if you look at the first cast in the video. lf he is doing what he says, it certainly have to change a bit with a longer rod, longer line and sink tip. Generally I think its a good educational video though in context, i.e. for most American Steelhead fishers with the type of gear they normally use. I am impressed with it because he makes such good use of upper body rotation which many short line casters do not, he also reaches the key position well which some short line casters don't, thats why he casts well. He also uses forearms to determine plane, he has a lot of things sorted for Spey casting technique with longer lines that takes some training time to put in place. He must do a lot of fishing or casting imho.
 
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salmonaddict

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Agree 100% with you MT. When thinking about my own casting whether it be single/double spey, snap T or snake roll, there is always a fraction of a second pause at the 2 o'clock position. It allows the D to come round and fully form prior to the forward stroke ?

Nice vid. It's always nice it watch a nice caster ?
 

JSO

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It is worth remembering that a snake roll is just a "roll cast followed by another roll cast" a lot of people struggle with it because they cannot do an efficient roll cast.

As for the pause and constant tension try and remember SNAPP:
Straight line rod tip path.
Accelerate to an abrupt stop
No slack line
Proportionate Power
Proportionate Pause

It applies to ALL casts
 

Lamson v10

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It is worth remembering that a snake roll is just a "roll cast followed by another roll cast" a lot of people struggle with it because they cannot do an efficient roll cast.

As for the pause and constant tension try and remember SNAPP:
Straight line rod tip path.
Accelerate to an abrupt stop
No slack line
Proportionate Power
Proportionate Pause

It applies to ALL casts

Goes to pot when you mix up your A with your N :p:)
 
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tony considine

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Good explanatory video for a cast that is well worth learning and using. The cast looks a lot more complicated than it really is, which might put off some people from trying. It can help that all the moves are played out in full view, so you can see the effect of any adjustments you make.
Like most casts it pays to start out with a modest length of about 15-20 yds to get how the moves are put together, extending length and adjusting your timing as you become more proficient. You may pause but the line doesn't, the tension is continuous.
t.c.
 

Rrrr

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I rekon hes one of the better people to watch for real world explainations of how to do the cast. Simon the guy from rio explains casts pretty well but this guy gets to the point.

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New Era

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I rekon hes one of the better people to watch for real world explainations of how to do the cast. Simon the guy from rio explains casts pretty well but this guy gets to the point.

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Totally agree with you Rrrr
This is Jons 2nd, latest video on the snake roll, I reckon the 2nd one is the best,
His first has 13k views, see below

Spey Casting with Jon- The Snake Roll Cast - YouTube
 

Rrrr

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Totally agree with you Rrrr
This is Jons 2nd, latest video on the snake roll, I reckon the 2nd one is the best,
His first has 13k views, see below

Spey Casting with Jon- The Snake Roll Cast - YouTube
Yea ive watched most of his videos. His style of explaining things suits my way of retaining and learning the info. I also find this guys explaination of the snap t really good and also his own snap z is good with a downstream wind if like me you are useless at casting off the wrong shoulder. Also when you slash down as he shows you it brings your line alot closer to you than a snap t.

Spey TV Episode 3 Snap T,Z,C - YouTube

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Rrrr

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Hes got some funny terms but i tried the cast without cutting across to the bank and the fly does whip past the rod tip. I only had a small stoats on but with a tube you could get into trouble.

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bluejay

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I hate watching someone give spey instructions like their way is the only way. There is no definitive casting form that must be adhered to. There are many successful series of movements that can produce good casts. Studying the detailed movements of world class tournament casters will show this to be true. True there are certain laws of physics one cannot ignore, but there are many variations on form that are successful. I say don't take any expert's advice as gospel. Play around and find your own style.
There are many things you can get away with using short heads that would cause a failed cast if done with a long line.
Just my opinion.
:)
 

Rrrr

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The thing is it gives you clear instructions and keeps it simple. If they gave you 4 ways to do each cast to allow for casting styles then as a learning tool/video it would be useless. On a 1 to 1 basis in person im sure it would be diffrent as they can analyise how you cast.

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bluejay

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Rrr,
Good point. The vids can get a person started and on track with a style that works.
 

New Era

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I leaned spey casts off a video , It was by Derek Brown ,filmed at Tweedswood on the Tweed,a mate recommended it, but lent it out and never been returned , an early Falkus video was hard to take in, No need for buying DVD's with U Tube , save a mint on casting lessons to
 

kingfisher

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As I’m **** with my left hand up Spey casting unless it’s on a small river, I tend to use the T Snap while fishing down the right bank-subject to room
I find it less effortless and easier to do than the double spey imho.

Need to buy a hot dog ? though to make it perfect lol
 
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allysshrimp

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As I’m **** with my left hand up Spey casting unless it’s on a small river, I tend to use the T Snap while fishing down the right bank-subject to room
I find it less effortless and easier to dontjat the double spey imho.

Need to buy a hot dog ? though to make it perfect lol

What kind o cast is that sir :D
 

kingfisher

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What kind o cast is that sir :D

You've never heard of that superior Spey cast when the wind is coming straight across the water at you, then swirls around you in an upwards fashion creating a vortex that lifts yer bunnet aff yer napper.

Where have you been man lol
 

allysshrimp

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You've never heard of that superior Spey cast when the wind is coming straight across the water at you, then swirls around you in an upwards fashion creating a vortex that lifts yer bunnet aff yer napper.

Where have you been man lol

Normally in the beat hut having a Dram in those conditions :lol:
 
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