Snake roll and rod action

Rainclouds

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For me downstresm breezes are fairly uncommon on the usual rivers I fish. My preferred cast with downstream wind is the snake roll where space allows. With my old Bruce and Walker Powerlite Walker 14 foot and a Rio mid head spey, this was a fairly relaxed cast. My current usual setup is a Loop Q 13'2" #8 with Gaelforce 54 foot Equalizer 8/9. I find this a balanced outfit for single spey casting.

Last week, in just these conditions I had the Loop Q setup
and while I could shoot a nice bit of line from a snake roll, the cast required a lot of physical effort with poor rod loading. Trying my Airflo switch with 33 foot head, I was back to snake roll with the familiar easy and relaxed style.

It left me wondering if a deep loading rod action is essential for comfortable snake rolling. I tried relaxing things but it just didn't work. Any thoughts?
 

Rrrr

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Going from my 13 footers that i have in regular use, my guideline lpxe is a bit of a pain to snake roll. To get the line speed high enough to load the rod you are going abit too fast and loose controll of the rod tips path abit.
With my greys using the same line its a much slower and accurate cast as the rod is alot slower.

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rotenone

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For me downstresm breezes are fairly uncommon on the usual rivers I fish. My preferred cast with downstream wind is the snake roll where space allows. With my old Bruce and Walker Powerlite Walker 14 foot and a Rio mid head spey, this was a fairly relaxed cast. My current usual setup is a Loop Q 13'2" #8 with Gaelforce 54 foot Equalizer 8/9. I find this a balanced outfit for single spey casting.

Last week, in just these conditions I had the Loop Q setup
and while I could shoot a nice bit of line from a snake roll, the cast required a lot of physical effort with poor rod loading. Trying my Airflo switch with 33 foot head, I was back to snake roll with the familiar easy and relaxed style.

It left me wondering if a deep loading rod action is essential for comfortable snake rolling. I tried relaxing things but it just didn't work. Any thoughts?
Deep loading rods are not essential it's the tempo of the cast that needs to be changed to accommodate the the action of the rod.
However the the true nature of any powerful and progressive rod means that as more mass and load is applied into the casting cycle the deeper the rod loads, that means when used with powerful casts like the snake roll the blank of a progressive rod
bends right the way through giving the feeling of time, with a deep loading fast recovering blank the cast is a joy to make. If you watch the true masters of the snake roll perform the cast they all use powerful and progressive rods with strong tips sections for a good reason.
Yes any cast will work on any rod but when we are talking about economy of effort with normal head length lines over 12 metres then nothing comes close to a progressive spey rod hence although I have cupboards full of Scandinavian rods my personal preference is for Scottish style spey rods.
 

Rainclouds

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All the above makes sense from my observations last week. I'm definitely leaning to deeper loading rods lately for both casting and playing fish.
 

rotenone

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All the above makes sense from my observations last week. I'm definitely leaning to deeper loading rods lately for both casting and playing fish.
Many of the Scandinavian rods are one trick ponies, they quickly get found out when versatility is needed, there area few exceptions and some of the well. known scandi rod companies do make such blanks, however what is sometimes Missing in them is the tip strength I prefer as they are still geared up for shorter heads.

It's the combination of deep load, fast recovery and tip strength that is most versatile, and I think it best to go to a company with a heritage in proper spey casting or competition spey casting like Gaelforce, cnd or Bruce and walker to. Find it as the the actions tend to be geared up like and consistent that expecially in the first 2 I mention.

Much Mis information on rod action is out there, like the old chestnut that spey actioned rods are slow or sloppy my Gaelforce destinations are faster then many of the marketed Scandinavian brands out there and are superb with shorter heads also.
 

Rrrr

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All the above makes sense from my observations last week. I'm definitely leaning to deeper loading rods lately for both casting and playing fish.
I did the same earlier this year as my shoulder was giving me trouble with the fast rod. Ive never had an issue with it since using the old greys. Distance has dropped slightly with the slower rod but not enough to really worry about or that stops me covering fish.

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Rainclouds

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I did the same earlier this year as my shoulder was giving me trouble with the fast rod. Ive never had an issue with it since using the old greys. Distance has dropped slightly with the slower rod but not enough to really worry about or that stops me covering fish.

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Interesting you mention your shoulder as I found I had to hit the rod hard with my shoulder to get the required speed for the forward cast. I can see how it could cause trouble down the line.
 

fisshman26

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Are you doing a lift Before you make your circle?
this is the most common fault I see with the snake is that most just make the circle without a lift
 

Rainclouds

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Don't think I had a casting fault as I was shooting plenty of running line with the 54 foot head and 10 foot poly. The problem was the effort required to speed things up in order to keep tension for the cast was uncomfortable, even without aiming to shoot line. It was the only rod I had that issue with and I would previously regarded it as a good all round rod..
 

fisshman26

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Don't think I had a casting fault as I was shooting plenty of running line with the 54 foot head and 10 foot poly. The problem was the effort required to speed things up in order to keep tension for the cast was uncomfortable, even without aiming to shoot line. It was the only rod I had that issue with and I would previously regarded it as a good all round rod..
The lift dictates how the rest of the cast goes and when done properly makes it easy to move the line for the rest of the cast with maximum tension. No lift and just a roll means you Need to work harder than you should And have little to no control of the line or little tension.
watch this and watch the rod tip go up Before the circle. That’s the lift
 

Greegs

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The lift dictates how the rest of the cast goes and when done properly makes it easy to move the line for the rest of the cast with maximum tension. No lift and just a roll means you Need to work harder than you should And have little to no control of the line or little tension.
watch this and watch the rod tip go up Before the circle. That’s the lift

Bruce Kurk is superb to watch.
I got to him through Tim, line speed Jedi.

Instruction is really good.


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Rainclouds

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The lift dictates how the rest of the cast goes and when done properly makes it easy to move the line for the rest of the cast with maximum tension. No lift and just a roll means you Need to work harder than you should And have little to no control of the line or little tension.
watch this and watch the rod tip go up Before the circle. That’s the lift
Will give it a try before I replace the rod. I would say I was giving lift to start but the vid is giving some serious bottom hand to start. More contradictions......completely different tack to Simon Gawesworth.
 

fisshman26

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Will give it a try before I replace the rod. I would say I was giving lift to start but the vid is giving some serious bottom hand to start. More contradictions......completely different tack to Simon Gawesworth.
Watch your rod tip line follows rod tip…..always!
 

Rrrr

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I use the lift then "draw a sausage in the sky" method and it works for me.

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tynelobster

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Will give it a try before I replace the rod. I would say I was giving lift to start but the vid is giving some serious bottom hand to start. More contradictions......completely different tack to Simon Gawesworth.
Would you be happy/able to video yourself and post it - may make it easier for others to help????
 

Greegs

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I use the lift then "draw a sausage in the sky" method and it works for me.

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I watched that video & that’s all I ever think about when doing it.


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Rrrr

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I watched that video & that’s all I ever think about when doing it.


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Aye, i got it from the same bloke and embrace my inner "spey quaterback"
Ive tried to do the cast without the sausage in the sky and the anchor lands a mile away from where it needs to be.

I also use his odd half snap t and half circle spey as it works well for me.

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Greegs

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Aye, i got it from the same bloke and embrace my inner "spey quaterback"
Ive tried to do the cast without the sausage in the sky and the anchor lands a mile away from where it needs to be.

I also use his odd half snap t and half circle spey as it works well for me.

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As long as the flee goes out & starts swimming straight away then that’s all that matters.
We all cast differently & it’s what works for ourselves that matters.


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