Slow action rod

Finglas

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Hi all,

After my disappointment with the vision onki (updated in the other thread on this board) I'm wondering about the idea of trying a slow actioned rod. I still mainly use spey lines and so I imagine a slow actioned rod may be a good idea from that perspective. Regardless though I do like the idea of trying a rod with more "feel".

I know there seems to be a lot of contention over the terms here... is it slow? Is it through action? Is it progressive ? Which relates to the action and which the recovery etc etc. Frankly i'm not sure myself on all they terms but a slow action rod to me flexes more deeply and as more "feel".

So, does anyone have any recommendations on modern rods that have what I'm looking for? On another thread Loxie mentioned that Loomis rods may fit the bill so I will check them out but any other recommendations would be great.

Thank you,

Jamie
 

Rennie

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You could do far worse than look at a B+W Powerlite, very very capable rods and will fish full long bellied lines with complete ease, but aren't so one sided that you can't fish a Shooting Head or Skagit from time to time.I fished with a 16ft 9/10 for some years, there are times I'm sad I passed it on!.
Pedro.
 

Findhorn Conehead

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Have a look at RJC rods.
I have a few of them and find that they have have loads of feedback and feel down the blank.
Ross rolls his own blanks at his workshop and can tweak a rod to suit your needs.
Ross is extremely helpful and has various trial rods that can be tried before purchasing.

FCH
 

Rennie

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Although in that these days I fish a 15ft Loomis NRX as my 15fter and its very much of a modern feel and dare I say action, it loves Mackenzie heads, but it absolutely launches full lines.I chuck a 65ft Mackenzie on mine and the more you take your time, the more it will fly and absolutely bang to the reel.Never exceptionally popular rods, but you could pick up a reet bargain on one of these!, and you do get an awful lot of rod for your money!
Pedro.
 

iainmortimer

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Hi all,

After my disappointment with the vision onki (updated in the other thread on this board) I'm wondering about the idea of trying a slow actioned rod. I still mainly use spey lines and so I imagine a slow actioned rod may be a good idea from that perspective. Regardless though I do like the idea of trying a rod with more "feel".

I know there seems to be a lot of contention over the terms here... is it slow? Is it through action? Is it progressive ? Which relates to the action and which the recovery etc etc. Frankly i'm not sure myself on all they terms but a slow action rod to me flexes more deeply and as more "feel".

So, does anyone have any recommendations on modern rods that have what I'm looking for? On another thread Loxie mentioned that Loomis rods may fit the bill so I will check them out but any other recommendations would be great.

Thank you,

Jamie

Message The Flying Scotsman on here. I believe his rods could be just what you are looking for and not as expensive as you might think. Check out my review here on the rod he built for me which includes a short video of my first test cast over grass where you can see the full curve plus one the river a little further down the thread.
 
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Springer

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The best bit of advice I could give you is ignore what the makers claim about a rods action. There is so much marketing junk applied just to sell gear and rods are wrongly described all the time. The only way you can really know what a rod is like is to cast it and even then it can be surprising once you start trying different line weights on the same rod, its characteristic can change. This really is an example of needing to try rods before you buy them if possible.

The terms fast action and slow action are useful ways to describe how a rod bends under similar loads, a fast one will bend less than a slow one, the term fast could be replaced by tip actioned or mid-tip action and slow can be replaced by the term through. Manufacturers prefer through action to slow action most of the time because which man in the testosterone dominated market would 'slow' appeal to unless they then the score? Fast sells better than slow, its a man thing.

Progressive can be a confusing term because its often used in the wrong context. You can have a progressive fast actioned rod or a progressive slow actioned rod. Progressive isnt a rod action, it can be a feature of any rod action but not always. Progressive is much easier seen if you bend a rod against a load and see the shape of the curve that is created. When you look at some rods under load you can see small straight sections or places where the bend seems to increase rapidly before going back to its more normal shape. These can be felt in the cast and are often referred to as dead or flat spots. Thats just bad or hurried blank design, some people will feel it but many wont.

As an example think of a semi-circle curve that you could draw around a 2p coin, it would be perfect with the bend continuing smoothly from start to finish, this is progressive, the more the load is applied the more the rod continues to bend in a uniform manner with each inch of the rod blank bending just enough before passing the work to the inch below it.

Now draw that same circle around a 50p piece, the curve would still be roughly round but you would have all them corners where the bends are greater as it goes from bend to flat to bend to flat etc. If you were to bend enough fly rods you would see the 50p rods easily and there have always been plenty on the market, they aren't always the cheap ones either. Usually a rod would only have one or two flat spots, occasionally three but they can be felt and the rods feel and be unpredictable or less precise as more and more load is applied.

The term fast is also used by rod makers when they are talking about the recovery of the blank, this is how quickly it gets back to being straight and stops resonating after it has been cast. So if you have a through actioned rod with a carbon composition and lay up that gives it a fast recovery its still a though actioned rod, not a fast one, it just has fast recovery. Equally you can have a fast/tip actioned rod that is made from a carbon fibre and lay up that doesnt recover as quick as another so its a fast action with poor or slower recovery - confused yet? :unsure:

I like progressive through actioned rods myself and thats what I use for everything, from the shortest shooting heads to the longer spey lines and skagits as well, one rod that does everything. Because of their through action and true progressive nature they can cast a wide range of line weights and types well and are generally more forgiving in terms of timing.
 
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Rrrr

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I had this issue earlier in the year as a shoulder injury was giving me greif with my usual fast actioned rod.
Got an older greys gs2 model from ebay and its alot slower. Actualy prefer it to my guideline as it gave me no shoulder pain at all. Its nicknamed the spagetti special but it served its purpouse.

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Finglas

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The best bit of advice I could give you is ignore what the makers claim about a rods action. There is so much marketing junk applied just to sell gear and rods are wrongly described all the time. The only way you can really know what a rod is like is to cast it and even then it can be surprising once you start trying different line weights on the same rod, its characteristic can change. This really is an example of needing to try rods before you buy them if possible.

The terms fast action and slow action are useful ways to describe how a rod bends under similar loads, a fast one will bend less than a slow one, the term fast could be replaced by tip actioned or mid-tip action and slow can be replaced by the term through. Manufacturers prefer through action to slow action most of the time because which man in the testosterone dominated market would 'slow' appeal to unless they then the score? Fast sells better than slow, its a man thing.

Progressive can be a confusing term because its often used in the wrong context. You can have a progressive fast actioned rod or a progressive slow actioned rod. Progressive isnt a rod action, it can be a feature of any rod action but not always. Progressive is much easier seen if you bend a rod against a load and see the shape of the curve that is created. When you look at some rods under load you can see small straight sections or places where the bend seems to increase rapidly before going back to its more normal shape. These can be felt in the cast and are often referred to as dead or flat spots. Thats just bad or hurried blank design, some people will feel it but many wont.

As an example think of a semi-circle curve that you could draw around a 2p coin, it would be perfect with the bend continuing smoothly from start to finish, this is progressive, the more the load is applied the more the rod continues to bend in a uniform manner with each inch of the rod blank bending just enough before passing the work to the inch below it.

Now draw that same circle around a 50p piece, the curve would still be roughly round but you would have all them corners where the bends are greater as it goes from bend to flat to bend to flat etc. If you were to bend enough fly rods you would see the 50p rods easily and there have always been plenty on the market, they aren't always the cheap ones either. Usually a rod would only have one or two flat spots, occasionally three but they can be felt and the rods feel and be unpredictable or less precise as more and more load is applied.

The term fast is also used by rod makers when they are talking about the recovery of the blank, this is how quickly it gets back to being straight and stops resonating after it has been cast. So if you have a through actioned rod with a carbon composition and lay up that gives it a fast recovery its still a though actioned rod, not a fast one, it just has fast recovery. Equally you can have a fast/tip actioned rod that is made from a carbon fibre and lay up that doesnt recover as quick as another so its a fast action with poor or slower recovery - confused yet? :unsure:

I like progressive through actioned rods myself and thats what I use for everything, from the shortest shooting heads to the longer spey lines and skagits as well, one rod that does everything. Because of their through action and true progressive nature they can cast a wide range of line weights and types well and are generally more forgiving in terms of timing.

Thank you springer. Appreciate you taking the time to write a detailed response like that. I'll read it a few times to try and let it sink in!

What rods would you recommend then? I guess trying them first is always more sensible but sometimes it just isn't possible. Same with lines!

Thank you again
 

Grassy_Knollington

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One man’s soft is another medium. I haven’t tried loads of rods so take with a pinch of salt.

The Meiser MKS (through action, med recovery), or MKX (lighter, through action faster recovery) both have strong tips and more flexible mid / but sections.

As always, try before you buy. If you can get hold of one to try.

The B&W Walker range are relatively fuller flexing than the Powerlite range and may be worth looking at. Definitely try before buying, because they handle a very wide range of lines, (mainly on the heavier side) depending on casting style - as I recently discovered.

Good luck!
 

Greegs

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Get a play around with an LTS explosive, yellow blank.
Some call them bananas as they bend that much but they cast a treat.


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rotenone

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Hi all,

After my disappointment with the vision onki (updated in the other thread on this board) I'm wondering about the idea of trying a slow actioned rod. I still mainly use spey lines and so I imagine a slow actioned rod may be a good idea from that perspective. Regardless though I do like the idea of trying a rod with more "feel".

I know there seems to be a lot of contention over the terms here... is it slow? Is it through action? Is it progressive ? Which relates to the action and which the recovery etc etc. Frankly i'm not sure myself on all they terms but a slow action rod to me flexes more deeply and as more "feel".

So, does anyone have any recommendations on modern rods that have what I'm looking for? On another thread Loxie mentioned that Loomis rods may fit the bill so I will check them out but any other recommendations would be great.

Thank you,

Jamie
The best rod action for a spey line is deep progressive but powerful action with a stronger tip section and fast recovery , as more mass is applied the whole blank will bend giving you that feeling of time and a deep load.

In my world there is no better action for long bellied casting or any l other line system.

Having a stronger tip section will give you a feeling of authority, prevent tip deflection and imho are better with lifting sinking lines and tips.

You are better off going to a company or rod builder with knowledge or a history im competition casting, or approaching a builder with knowledge of that market.

Gaelforce, carron, Burkheimer, Bruce and walker and cnd all have what you are looking for off the shelf,. Meiser also are worth a look.

The push in the salmon fishing industry has largely been for shooting heads of recent and many companies have opted to push fast hyperbolic actions whicb to me are one trick ponies and lack versatilty with longer lines, heavier lines and sink tip lines. Also many companies produce rods that are inconsistent even through a range, the galeforce rods are the kost consistent actions ive tried especially the destinations.
 

Finglas

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One man’s soft is another medium. I haven’t tried loads of rods so take with a pinch of salt.

The Meiser MKS (through action, med recovery), or MKX (lighter, through action faster recovery) both have strong tips and more flexible mid / but sections.

As always, try before you buy. If you can get hold of one to try.

The B&W Walker range are relatively fuller flexing than the Powerlite range and may be worth looking at. Definitely try before buying, because they handle a very wide range of lines, (mainly on the heavier side) depending on casting style - as I recently discovered.

Good luck!

What's the script with Meiser rods then? I remember Doonrood on here being a big fan and I've read a lot of his old posts about them. Do you buy and import or are there any uk stockists? Does he make the blank himself like rjc does ?
 

rotenone

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What's the script with Meiser rods then? I remember Doonrood on here being a big fan and I've read a lot of his old posts about them. Do you buy and import or are there any uk stockists? Does he make the blank himself like rjc does ?

What's the script with Meiser rods then? I remember Doonrood on here being a big fan and I've read a lot of his old posts about them. Do you buy and import or are there any uk stockists? Does he make the blank himself like rjc does ?
The blanks were made to his spec by cts new Zealand, all Meiser rods have to be imported they are good rods but by the time you pay shipping and duty you wouldn't be far off a Gaelforce rod which are far superior blanks
 

Grassy_Knollington

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What's the script with Meiser rods then? I remember Doonrood on here being a big fan and I've read a lot of his old posts about them. Do you buy and import or are there any uk stockists? Does he make the blank himself like rjc does ?

Meiser are hard to get hold of over here.

Bob Meiser sells direct and is US based, so you’ll have to import anything you buy new from him. Bob sells fully finished rods and a variety of self-build options, from blank-only to blank + cork & all fittings.

I got the 13’6” 7/8 in his 2018 Blank sale and built it out myself. I was living in the US at the time, but the blank was pretty cheap so wouldn’t have cost a fortune on import. I have tried, but not really got to grips with it using a 55ft Spey line. Most probably that is my poor technique.

For fishing purposes, it will throw a 570 grain Guideline compact multi tip into next week with minimal effort and lifts the I/S3 sinking compact body with a 5/7 tip easily.

I also have a 12’6” Highlander CX 6/8, which is much lighter and I like with a 480 grain rage / 510 grain Scandi long. The CX is much faster recovering and has a slightly softer tip than the MKS. It still flexes down into the handle.

Based only on Speypages and talking to Bob, the new MKX are lighter and faster recovering, but have the same full flex as the MKS
 

MCXFisher

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The vision cult is a nice slow action rod, I think there’s a review on chasing silver 😊

They don’t come any slower or fuller actioned than the Cult, which makes them a delightful rod for fishing all manner of lines. Some people, probably accustomed to stiffer, more ‘tippy’ ‘faster’ rods derided the Cult for being soggy, while overlooking the fact that it delivered the fly to exactly the same distance. The Cult has been out of production for 5 or 6 years now and is correspondingly hard to find. I still love my 13’ 7” #8/9 dearly and wouldn’t part with it, even though the XO is my weapon of choice most of the time.
One of the advantages of its forgiving full action is the way in which it reduces the otherwise malign effects of an over-enthusiastic trout fishing top hand, that with a stiffer rod can be a real cast-killer.
I note that your disappointment with the Onki was caused by its breakage tsther than any dislike of the action.
 

Springer

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Thank you springer. Appreciate you taking the time to write a detailed response like that. I'll read it a few times to try and let it sink in!

What rods would you recommend then? I guess trying them first is always more sensible but sometimes it just isn't possible. Same with lines!

Thank you again

Sorry Im out of touch with todays modern crop of fly rods, Ive not taught for 5yrs until very recently due to injury so my experience of rods is a bit outdated. Im sure there will be guys on here who can be more specific with the makes and models of through actioned fast recovering rods. In the end though it will boil down to trying some or taking a punt if you cant.

You can feel a rods action reasonably well by flexing it in you hands, if its bending down into the butt you will feel it. All fly rods bought online are covered by the Distance Selling Regulations, this allows you to return anything bought online for a full refund so long as you inform them of your intention to so within 10 days and so long as you haven't used the product or damaged the packaging. That doesnt mean you cant put the rod together and flex it in the garden, if it feels stiff send it back for a refund.
 
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tawsalmon

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They don’t come any slower or fuller actioned than the Cult, which makes them a delightful rod for fishing all manner of lines. Some people, probably accustomed to stiffer, more ‘tippy’ ‘faster’ rods derided the Cult for being soggy, while overlooking the fact that it delivered the fly to exactly the same distance. The Cult has been out of production for 5 or 6 years now and is correspondingly hard to find. I still love my 13’ 7” #8/9 dearly and wouldn’t part with it, even though the XO is my weapon of choice most of the time.
One of the advantages of its forgiving full action is the way in which it reduces the otherwise malign effects of an over-enthusiastic trout fishing top hand, that with a stiffer rod can be a real cast-killer.
I note that your disappointment with the Onki was caused by its breakage tsther than any dislike of the action.
Couldn’t agree with you more MCX. Very much based on your inputs to this forum and your delightful blogs elsewhere, I took the opportunity to buy a second hand 13ft 6” Cult from a French angler via EBay a couple of years back. It is an absolute delight to cast and, like you, I will never part with it. I also have the amazing Vision 14 ft and 13 ft Mags which are certainly also lovely rods too but be warned everyone, you will have to prise the Cult from my cold dead hand, should they ever covet it.
 
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