Six Nations 2020.

salarchaser

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Didn't see the game but just looking at the result that is a good outcome for France. A whole lot of young players have taken a big step forward. Given where French rugby was just a few years ago it is good to see (or hear about in my case).

Looking at those two clips of knock ons, you can see the referee in both clips, no way he could give either of them. I agree with salarchaser that the TMO can't intervene for either, if there had been foul play it would be different. Don't know what the nearside assistant referee can see. So I am not sure what everyone is expecting, knock ons and forward passes get missed all the time. Rule number one is, don't guess. Interesting that none of the whingers appear to be French.
Just googled TMO intervention.
So, it depends on how many phases there were between the 'knock on' and the try.

Can the TMO intervene on any matter they like?

No, the TMO in rugby is basically restricted to two crucial areas:

1. The scoring of a try, whether the grounding of the ball or the build-up to the try. Any infringement within the two phases prior to a try would render it illegal.
 

Handel

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Just googled TMO intervention.
So, it depends on how many phases there were between the 'knock on' and the try.

Can the TMO intervene on any matter they like?

No, the TMO in rugby is basically restricted to two crucial areas:

1. The scoring of a try, whether the grounding of the ball or the build-up to the try. Any infringement within the two phases prior to a try would render it illegal.
And the irony is that many of the people complaining are also in the group that says the TMO intervenes too much!
 

salarchaser

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And the irony is that many of the people complaining are also in the group that says the TMO intervenes too much!
There are a few things that disrupt the game that are intended to speed the game up.
One of my bug bears is advantage. You could waste 1 or 2 minutes playing advantage then bringing it back.
Scrum advantage is ok. As soon as you retain possession over the gain line, advantage over.
Penalty advantage is far more complex and subjective.

Theres always going to be exceptions, but I think the TMO gets more right than wrong. If they resolve 70% of things that were previously missed its a big step in the right direction.
 

Handel

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There are a few things that disrupt the game that are intended to speed the game up.
One of my bug bears is advantage. You could waste 1 or 2 minutes playing advantage then bringing it back.
Scrum advantage is ok. As soon as you retain possession over the gain line, advantage over.
Penalty advantage is far more complex and subjective.

Theres always going to be exceptions, but I think the TMO gets more right than wrong. If they resolve 70% of things that were previously missed its a big step in the right direction.
Couldn't agree more. Penalty advantage has changed over the years recognising the huge improvement in goal kicking taking into account modern balls that don't get water logged and including the distance kickers can now convert the kick from. There are all sorts of possibilities there, for example penalty advantage only applies in the defending 22m area, but the objections are immediately obvious. It all goes back to the point that modern pitches are not big enough for modern players. I don't think I am the only one to have suggested going to 13 players.
 

salarchaser

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Couldn't agree more. Penalty advantage has changed over the years recognising the huge improvement in goal kicking taking into account modern balls that don't get water logged and including the distance kickers can now convert the kick from. There are all sorts of possibilities there, for example penalty advantage only applies in the defending 22m area, but the objections are immediately obvious. It all goes back to the point that modern pitches are not big enough for modern players. I don't think I am the only one to have suggested going to 13 players.
Its almost at the point that if you have a penalty advantage in the opposition half and dont score a try it get pulled back.

Being a 6, if the game had gone to 13 in my day I wouldnt have got a game.🤣
 

glenclova

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There are a few things that disrupt the game that are intended to speed the game up.
One of my bug bears is advantage. You could waste 1 or 2 minutes playing advantage then bringing it back.
Scrum advantage is ok. As soon as you retain possession over the gain line, advantage over.
Penalty advantage is far more complex and subjective.

Theres always going to be exceptions, but I think the TMO gets more right than wrong. If they resolve 70% of things that were previously missed its a big step in the right direction.
Would limiting penalty advantage to a limited number of phases (eg 6) before going back for the original penalty improve the situation?
 

salarchaser

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Watched the Newcastle v Blues game last night. Ok, but not a thriller with Newcastle playing a mixed side of youth and experience.
A few aspects of play certainly resonated with what Nigel Owens writes in the attached.
 

billy fish

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8472FDEE-8B77-442B-BEDE-8BFAA85742B3.jpeg
 

Aled

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I often wonder what many of those great players from the amateur era would of made of professionalism. The great Cliff Morgan stated he would not of dealt with it, in his book he said something along the lines of..."you see i couldn't train on Wednesday evening, it was Choir practice night, and i preferred choir practice to training" however there are others who i think would of loved it...Bobby Windsor and JPR for example. With apologies i don't know enough about the personalities of players from outside Wales to pass comment. What would Mike Gibson, Any Irvine, John Pierre Rieves, or David Duckham of made of professionalism?
Cheers
Aled
 
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salarchaser

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I often wonder what many of those great players from the amateur era would of made of professionalism. The great Cliff Morgan stated he would not of dealt with it, in his book he said something along the lies of..."you see i couldn't train on Wednesday evening, it was Choir practice night, and i preferred choir practice to training" however there are others who i think would of loved it...Bobby Windsor and JPR for example. With apologies i don't know enough about the personalities of players from outside Wales to pass comment. What would Mike Gibson, Any Irvine, John Pierre Rieves, or David Duckham of made of professionalism?
Cheers
Aled
Not sure Duckham would have liked all the training. Rieves would be considered too small (5'10"). Gibson and irvine though....
Fenwick and Gravell would suit the modern game.
Some of the French pack of the late 70s, Bastiat, Skrella, Cholly.

Mike Slemen was the Johnny May of his day.

An age old question and comparing apples and oranges.
 

Aled

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I agree salarchaser, Gareth Edwards claimed two things about his generation, they benefited greatly from the 1948 education act.(as did the WRU)....they all trained as PE teachers, (unlike their fathers who all headed to the work environment at 15), which saw them spend every day in a tracksuit running around a sports ground which was basically a daily training session!
Cheers
Aled
 

ozzyian

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Standard procedure with English front rows moving to Sydney and looking for work their club used to get them a job with the local council on the bins. That was the before the machine did the work. I have sneaking feeling that E Jones was a binman once - or could have got that mixed up.
 

salarchaser

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I agree salarchaser, Gareth Edwards claimed two things about his generation, they benefited greatly from the 1948 education act.(as did the WRU)....they all trained as PE teachers, (unlike their fathers who all headed to the work environment at 15), which saw them spend every day in a tracksuit running around a sports ground which was basically a daily training session!
Cheers
Aled
Back row and backs college educated.
Front 5 manual workers. Steel men and miners usually. Think Geoff Wheel was a bin man.

Standard procedure with English front rows moving to Sydney and looking for work their club used to get them a job with the local council on the bins. That was the before the machine did the work. I have sneaking feeling that E Jones was a binman once - or could have got that mixed up.
Knew a few guys pushing for 1st team games in first class clubs heading for Manly.
Quite a lot of players getting accomodation and manual jobs to go out there. Allowed them to play 12 months of the year during their formative years.
No need since the game turned professional.
 

Handel

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Not sure Duckham would have liked all the training. Rieves would be considered too small (5'10"). Gibson and irvine though....
Fenwick and Gravell would suit the modern game.
Some of the French pack of the late 70s, Bastiat, Skrella, Cholly.

Mike Slemen was the Johnny May of his day.

An age old question and comparing apples and oranges.
That is exactly the point, apples and oranges. Oddly the one player I am quite sure would thrive in the modern game is Edwards. Imagine a 9 who could box kick properly, pass properly, see a gap, have the speed to make a break, DuPont maybe? And Edwards didn't train full time.
 

Kype King

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Anyone see the Bristol v Claremont yesterday? Now that is how rugby is supposed to be played!
 

pfeul

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Anyone see the Bristol v Claremont yesterday? Now that is how rugby is supposed to be played!
Exactly, as was the last European cup final between Exeter vs racing.

Apart from some box kicking because of slow balls and for clearing the ball during defensive phases, I'm not sure there has been any other kicking game.

That was a great game even more when you do back Clermont as I do!
 

salarchaser

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Another great display from Sam Simmonds . To hear the way Sam Warburton talked about him Makes you wonder what he has to do to get in to the England set up , and Sam W knows a little bit about back row play .
He could play anywhere across the backrow at international level. A bit like a quick version of Josh Navidi.

Imagine him coming on with 20 to go after Billy V had softened things up. 😲
 
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