Six Nations 2020.

[salarchaser]

Lots to say today!
Firstly i would like to congratulate Argentina on a famous victory well done the Pumas, a brilliant result for the country, and for the Rugby World.
No real surprises elsewhere, well done Scotland and England, i've been a family man today and not watched any rugby, so no idea how the games went. Also disappointed to see the France v Fiji game off tomorrow!

Salarchaser your comments on the regional game is smack on, and i felt from the beginning of forming the regions we got it wrong...my 2 female 1st cousins both married Llanelli RFC fans, they were prepared to sacrifice the embarrassment which was Welsh rugby at the time to keep Llanelli RFC....club before country. (as an aside neither of the 2 Llanelli fans mentioned ever played any rugby, their entire rugby dynasty was lived through supporting a club, proper bar room heroes!) However whats done is done, and during the EU cups i will always support the 4 Welsh Regions, unlike others i have no tribal club commitments.

No idea where Wales go from here: I will say one thing though, some coaches have a talent for looking at the resources they have and able to work out how best to use them to get results, Gattland has that skill, as does Sir Ian McGeechan. Wales will probably always need a coach with that skill....just look at how it worked out for Graham Henry!

Finally Women's Rugby: One of England's Women squad members is fly half is Megan Jones, born and raised in Cardiff, and a fluent Welsh speaker. She was interviewed on S4C recently, Plays for England due to what the professional women's game there can offer her. (cant say i blame her by the way and i wish her well)
Cheers
Aled

The bit that got me with Llanelli was that when they dug their heels in, the WRU owned stradey. They bought it to bail Llanelli out.
In my mind the WRU should have told them to join with Swansea or find somewhere else to play.
WRU bottled it.
As you say, water under the bridge and we are where we are.
Admit to being irritated by fans who talk about the game having never put their bodies on the line.

A shame that female players have to 'sell out' for the money and the fame.
Cant say I blame them over the money, but playing for a country you have no affiliation with........

 

[Aled]

The bit that got me with Llanelli was that when they dug their heels in, the WRU owned stradey. They bought it to bail Llanelli out.
In my mind the WRU should have told them to join with Swansea or find somewhere else to play.
WRU bottled it.

Yep i agree WRU should of said "Follow us of f**k off"

A shame that female players have to 'sell out' for the money and the fame.
Cant say I blame them over the money, but playing for a country you have no affiliation with........

Not quite, her mother was born in England but brought up in Wales ( apologies I should of mentioned that)
Cheers
Aled

 

[peterchilton]

Surely if you are born in england you are english and if you are born in wales you are welsh, no time living there can change that. I don't agree with all this born here but lived there so have a choice. I have lived in Wales for 17+ years and I'm English, I support England.

 

[Handel]

Surely if you are born in england you are english and if you are born in wales you are welsh, no time living there can change that. I don't agree with all this born here but lived there so have a choice. I have lived in Wales for 17+ years and I'm English, I support England.

Looking at the Davies brothers (who both started for Wales in the game against Scotland) one of them was born in England and the other in Wales. They both speak Welsh. I doubt the one born in England thinks he is English.

 

[peterchilton]

Looking at the Davies brothers (who both started for Wales in the game against Scotland) one of them was born in England and the other in Wales. They both speak Welsh. I doubt the one born in England thinks he is English.

But he is?

Speaking welsh doesn't make you welsh anymore than speaking french makes me french

 

[JACK POWER]

Since 2007, I've always thought that Thierry Dusautoir had set the benchmark for great backrow forwards when he led the French, physically and spiritually, to beat McCaw's ABs. I did not think his performance might be surpassed or equalled. That was the second time Dusautoir showed the value of real leadership against the ABs. He made 38 tackles against the 36 made by the entire AB team. He was defiance and courage writ large. He was, without doubt, the best flanker on the field on both of those days and one of the very best of recent decades.. Truly inspirational.

Yesterday, Argentina's captain Pablo Matera did what I thought impossible, he matched Disautoir's pinnacle performances. If you've not watched the game do. Argentia were excellent; organised, defiant, relentless and brave. And, most worryingly of all for anyone who might meet them, calm and collected but Matera was magnificent.

It did help though that the ref put Cane back in his box when he started the usual AB push-push with the ref.

A good day for rugby.

 

[Handel]

But he is?

Speaking welsh doesn't make you welsh anymore than speaking french makes me french

When I was a boy I was fascinated by the Playfair Cricket Annual which told me that Colin Cowdrey was born in India and Ted Dexter was born in Italy. Why didn't they play for India and Italy respectively I thought? Dexter of course was easy, Italy didn't have a cricket team.
The interesting one for rugby is the Vunipolas, born in NZ and Oz respectively of Tongan parents, brought up in Wales and play for England. Now what do you do with them?
I do find Manu Tuilangi playing for England a bit difficult, born in Samoa of Samoan parents and all his brothers played for Samoa. But he has been in England longer than the Vunipolas.
And yes Jonathan Davies would definitely think it a bit odd if he was told he should play for England. I agree all sorts of people speak some French but few people speak Welsh who aren't Welsh especially with a Welsh accent in a Welsh speaking family living in Wales.
The New Zealanders agree with you by the way as a number of them are always telling me.

 

[peterchilton]

When I was a boy I was fascinated by the Playfair Cricket Annual which told me that Colin Cowdrey was born in India and Ted Dexter was born in Italy. Why didn't they play for India and Italy respectively I thought? Dexter of course was easy, Italy didn't have a cricket team.
The interesting one for rugby is the Vunipolas, born in NZ and Oz respectively of Tongan parents, brought up in Wales and play for England. Now what do you do with them?
I do find Manu Tuilangi playing for England a bit difficult, born in Samoa of Samoan parents and all his brothers played for Samoa. But he has been in England longer than the Vunipolas.
And yes Jonathan Davies would definitely think it a bit odd if he was told he should play for England. I agree all sorts of people speak some French but few people speak Welsh who aren't Welsh especially with a Welsh accent in a Welsh speaking family living in Wales.
The New Zealanders agree with you by the way as a number of them are always telling me.

I agree with all those quoted they should be playing for their country of birth .....

 

[Aled]

OK time to throw a spanner in the works....what if you are from a service family, where you go where you are posted? If my memory serves me correctly George North was born in England....as his Dad was in the RAF!
Cheers
Aled

PS: I often share the office with a London Irishman, one of his grandparents were born in Ireland the rest were born in the "colonies" due to his family being in the services, he supports Ireland with a passion!!

PPS: Apparently many of New Zealand's best players were eligible to play for other countries, so a bit hypocritical for them to argue!

 

[peterchilton]

OK time to throw a spanner in the works....what if you are from a service family, where you go where you are posted? If my memory serves me correctly George North was born in England....as his Dad was in the RAF!
Cheers
Aled

PS: I often share the office with a London Irishman, one of his grandparents were born in Ireland the rest were born in the "colonies" due to his family being in the services, he supports Ireland with a passion!!

PPS: Apparently many of New Zealand's best players were eligible to play for other countries, so a bit hypocritical for them to argue!

Difficult amongst uK countries but between NZ and UK then I guess they would react the same as the americans do and their bases are a small part of their country.

Bit would the London Irishman play for Ireland? I don't think so.

North was born in 1992 in King's Lynn. His father is English from Yorkshire and his Welsh mother is from Anglesey.

Gareth Anscombe is a New Zealander?

 

[salarchaser]

OK time to throw a spanner in the works....what if you are from a service family, where you go where you are posted? If my memory serves me correctly George North was born in England....as his Dad was in the RAF!
Cheers
Aled

PS: I often share the office with a London Irishman, one of his grandparents were born in Ireland the rest were born in the "colonies" due to his family being in the services, he supports Ireland with a passion!!

PPS: Apparently many of New Zealand's best players were eligible to play for other countries, so a bit hypocritical for them to argue!

I agree there has to be some latitude.
As long as the rules are clear and adhered to I'm fine with it.
As you say Aled, service families are good examples. You could be born in a country with which you have no affiliation.
I have issues with the likes of Michael Jones, one of the NZ greats. His first international cap was for Samoa.
Then there were the bachops. Flitted between NZ and samoa at will.
As handel says, the vinipolas have a very convoluted journey.
Maybe move away from grandparents to parents and country of birth. Where you live doesnt come in to it.

 

[Aled]

But he is?

Speaking welsh doesn't make you welsh anymore than speaking french makes me french

According to my Mam (Welsh born but a non Welsh speaker) it does, now if you want to argue with an educated Valleys Welsh woman, that's up to you personally i wouldn't recommend it......
Cheers
Aled

 

[salarchaser]

According to my Mam (Welsh born but a non Welsh speaker) it does, now if you want to argue with an educated Valleys Welsh woman, that's up to you personally i wouldn't recommend it......
Cheers
Aled

Im with you on that one Aled.
Im married to one and I wouldnt argue with her.
Been told to step asside before now so she can sort things. ?

 

[peterchilton]

so i'm french, spanish and german?

 

[Aled]

so i'm french, spanish and german?

Only if your Wife/Partner/Mam tells you are OK?
Cheers
Aled

Ps: You live in Wales and i presume by your comment you can speak those languages, good for you and well done.....now why cant you speak Welsh? (sorry mate couldn't resit it.... )

 

[salarchaser]

so i'm french, spanish and german?

If thats your heritage.
And if you represent one of those coutries at international tiddly winks, stick with them.

 

[peterchilton]

Its not but i speak the languages - I'm English

 

[peterchilton]

nope im not convinced - lets have teams made up of players from countries they were born in

I was shocked to find some of Yorkshire country cricketers were no longer born in yorkshire ???????????

 

[seeking]

nope im not convinced - lets have teams made up of players from countries they were born in

I was shocked to find some of Yorkshire country cricketers were no longer born in yorkshire ???????????

Aye, the most disasterous Cricketing decision ever made. IMHO.

 

[Handel]

Aye, the most disasterous Cricketing decision ever made. IMHO.

Was it Len Hutton who rushed his heavily pregnant/about to give birth wife to Yorkshire so that son Richard was born there? Anyway I reckon Jason Gillespie did a pretty good job for you lot.

 

[Handel]

nope im not convinced - lets have teams made up of players from countries they were born in

I was shocked to find some of Yorkshire country cricketers were no longer born in yorkshire ???????????

Neither you nor I needs to be convinced Peter. We aren't important enough. The system is what it is. They are supposed to be doing something about the residence qualification to stop players shopping around for a new team to play for though there seems to be some back sliding on that. The extreme position you take is never going to happen so we can all have fun discussing it. People became very excited when rugby sevens was admitted to the Olympics until the Olympics committee pointed out that England, Scotland and Wales aren't countries at all, simply regions of Great Britain.

 

[Aled]

Well here we go guys, the Grandson of an English great, James Botham is making his international debut on Saturday.....for Wales!
Big and brave changes from Pivac, providing we don't get into an arm wrestle we may be OK. but as i said may be OK, if Georgia want to turn one of us over, Saturday is probably their best chance at the moment!
Cheers
Aled

 

[Occasional salmon fisher]

I think you will beat Georgia ! At least that will break the losing run and might give the players a bit of a boost.

England v Ireland and Scotland v France should both be good games.

Would all be even better with a crowd .....

 

[salarchaser]

Well here we go guys, the Grandson of an English great, James Botham is making his international debut on Saturday.....for Wales!
Big and brave changes from Pivac, providing we don't get into an arm wrestle we may be OK. but as i said may be OK, if Georgia want to turn one of us over, Saturday is probably their best chance at the moment!
Cheers
Aled

Not a fan of wholesale changes.
Doesn't do the newbies any favours.
Sheedy will be looked to to run the show. He's got a rookie inside him and a relative rookie at international level outside him. A good prospect, but his international career could be over quickly through no fault of his own.
I'd have hoped Pivac would have used this game to blood a couple newbies in a settled side and build some confidence. If we'd won a few of the earlier games I still dont think I'd be thinking any differently.
Pivac risking his tenure.

 

[Handel]

Not a fan of wholesale changes.
Doesn't do the newbies any favours.
Sheedy will be looked to to run the show. He's got a rookie inside him and a relative rookie at international level outside him. A good prospect, but his international career could be over quickly through no fault of his own.
I'd have hoped Pivac would have used this game to blood a couple newbies in a settled side and build some confidence. If we'd won a few of the earlier games I still dont think I'd be thinking any differently.
Pivac risking his tenure.

Yes very odd. The ABs would never do this and Pivac is from NZ. Surround a new boy with experienced players is the way to start someone.