Six Nations 2020.

Aled

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Time doesn't half fly these days. Another 6 Nations upon us.
So for this season: What can we expect! New French, Irish & Welsh coaches, England looking strong after a good World Cup, Scotland smarting from a World Cup exit....lets not forget what happened during the 6 Nations after Wales and England left the World Cup party early! Finally Italy we will be saying a good bye to a legend of the game as Parisse bows out.
So discuss throw around some banter and enjoy....here we go again. :thumb::lol:
Cheers
Aled
 
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Aled

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Saracens centre Nick Tompkins: Anybody know anything about this guy? Apparently he has a Welsh Grandmother.
Aled
 

salarchaser

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Well its a bit quiet here guys?
Cheers
Aled

Give us a chance, only just recovering from the world cup. :nod:

Looking forward to the tournament as usual though a little apprehensive with our change in management, excited by the posibility of a new style of play, concerned over the long term injuries and intrigued by some of the uncapped players in the initial squad.

Rees-zammit always said he was committed to wales though rolands and tompkins have appeared from nowhere.
English fans seem irked by the possible loss of rolands.

As for the opposition, a few more new coaching setups. How will farrall adapt to being top dog in ireland with an agimg squad?

Can edwards avoid stifling the french attacking joie de vivre while still bringing defensive structure? They'll be a force to be reckoned with if he can.

Eddie must fancy his chances. Management continuity, a reducing injury list and playing resources aplenty (he wont miss the couple we've snaffled). Can they overcome their reputation of bottlers to win the grand slam?

As for scotland, they are taking on the french mantle. Which scotland will turn up?

Italy, alas, will struggle further without their talisman.
Id love the 6 nations committe to get their thumbs from up their arses and go for a 2 tier tournament with promotion and relegation.
It would be short term pain for italy, but i think long term gain for a number of countries.

2 and a bit weeks to go.
Plenty of time for the enthusiasm to build Aled.:thumb:
 

Handel

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Rees-zammit always said he was committed to wales though rolands and tompkins have appeared from nowhere.
English fans seem irked by the possible loss of rolands.

Wrong way round. English rugby always has produced lock forwards in quantity. If you asked round the regular fans at the premiership clubs they wouldn't put Rowlands in the top ten locks in the premiership. That is partly because he is a late developer having got himself an education before turning to professional rugby - an Oxbridge graduate no less! But at age 28 he really only has two full seasons of first team rugby behind him. He was Wasps players' player of the season in 18-19. But my point is English fans aren't that bothered and his father is Welsh and, I hear, a keen rugby man.

Tompkins is a whole different matter. Centres are just as much at a premium in England as they are in Wales. He is very highly rated across the whole premiership and every other club other than his own (Saracens) would love to have him. He would walk straight into the Harlequins first team for sure. And the annoying thing is that up until now he hasn't really been a member of Saracens first choice team. He has played plenty of rugby but when the big games come round he seems to be left out. He was in the England U-20 team that won the world junior championships and is now 24. England's midfield is still a mess and plenty of England supporters think that Tompkins should have been part of the solution. It is his loss that England fans are irked about and that it is down to a grandmother doesn't help.

Ireland seem to have moved on a couple of their old age pensioners (Best and Kearney) but still have several and one of them, Sexton, has been made captain. But if Burns is their third choice 10 then maybe they need to keep Sexton going. The Burns brothers are regarded in England as talented but flaky. Neither of them ever managed to hold down a shirt at one club, they always seemed to be moving on.

I am looking forward to seeing what a proper coaching team (at last) can do with France. Surely this must be the year they get their act together.
 

Aled

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Nice one gents: Yes I thought there was more fuss in England about losing Tomkins than Rowlands. There we are though, under IRB rules they are eligible for Wales so lets see how they go. France hmm yes well? um don't know what else to say! Lets wait and see.
Parrisse, as I understand it, he's going to make one last performance for Italy at Rome to say goodbye and will I believe get a well deserved farewell from all the rugby fraternity. He is a legend of the 6 Nations.
Cheers
Aled
 

salarchaser

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Well, any changes of opinion now the squads have been named?

Billy will be a big loss to England, whilst his cousin Taulupe returning for Wales is a big gain for us.

(Slight asside, but another of their cousins has come up through the age grades and has his sights on a Welsh cap in a couple years. Big lump he is too.)

All teams have named a smattering of uncapped players in their squads.
England omit 8 of their RWC squad, four through injury, and add 8 uncapped players, including a certain Jacob Umaga. If he's half the player uncle Tana was he'll do ok.

A few talisman missing for a number of nations after retirement (Alan Wyn still there though :nod: ).

France with 19 uncapped players in their squad :wow:
All bar one of their squad under 30.

The 6 nations after a RWC is always a bit odd with all the changes in personnel. None the less intriguing for it though.

10 days to go.:cool:
 

ozzyian

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All involved knew what they were up to. As cheats they should not be representing England. (Or should they)

Discuss








:):):)
 
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ozzyian

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Nice one gents: Yes I thought there was more fuss in England about losing Tomkins than Rowlands. There we are though, under IRB rules they are eligible for Wales so lets see how they go. France hmm yes well? um don't know what else to say! Lets wait and see.
Parrisse, as I understand it, he's going to make one last performance for Italy at Rome to say goodbye and will I believe get a well deserved farewell from all the rugby fraternity. He is a legend of the 6 Nations.
Cheers
Aled

Oh jeez, they're targeting the Scotland game to see him off!!!!

Not much certainty with Scotland. The only thing I would say is that I expect the Calcutta Cup to remain in EH12 5PJ for a third year (do we then get to keep it?)

Quite a few Antipodeans showing up at Twickenham these days, obvs the ABs don't rate Umaga jnr?
 

Paul White

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You're an Aussie to your toes Ozzy.....you really know how to wind it up!! Love it!!:thumb::):surrender:

Seriously though, all this playing for different countries because of a Granny or residency has got totally out of hand. Soon, there will be no allegiance to the country of your birth. I was talking to Mike Catt the other day (sorry for name drop), and I asked him what it felt like to be coaching a team not from your country of birth and he said it felt odd but "you have to work somewhere"!! I've never asked him about playing for England as a S African though!!!!
 
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JACK POWER

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Hiya H,

"Ireland seem to have moved on a couple of their old age pensioners (Best and Kearney) but still have several and one of them, Sexton, has been made captain. But if Burns is their third choice 10 then maybe they need to keep Sexton going. The Burns brothers are regarded in England as talented but flaky. Neither of them ever managed to hold down a shirt at one club, they always seemed to be moving on. I am looking forward to seeing what a proper coaching team (at last) can do with France. Surely this must be the year they get their act together."

Paddies kinda stuck with Sexton as his heir apparent is always injured - as he is now - Joey Carbery. So too is Bylendal, Paddy Jackson still off limits - this may change - and I suspect Burns' involvement is more political that real. An air of optimism in Irish rugby right now despite two very poor world cups. The schoolmaster is gone and a bit of energy returns. I suspect Farrell wants to notch up a win or two before introducing some young lads, he certainly has them at his disposal. Bit of a backlog really as JS had an aversion to change. Hopefully Farrell and Catt succeed half as well as Stuart Lancaster has at Leinster. Thanks Englsih rugby!!!!,

I'm really looking forward to watching France develop. Galthie has a new deal with the clubs which means he gets his players two week before a 6N game rather than the usual few days. Maybe they've decided to win the WC in Paris in 2023... how great that would be. Some amazing palyers at his disposal. Very sorry Billy V is sidelined again but not a bit sorry Saracens got their cum'uppence. Delighted to see Felataua back.
 

Handel

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The announcement of the England squad was over shadowed by all the goings on at Saracens. But a squad of 34 with no regular no 8 in it seems a bit odd. And it is same old same old at half back (Youngs, Heinz, Farrell and Ford) with the addition of young Umaga who I hear was born in England. Whether he is ready for international rugby is another matter. OK there are injuries but 3 Exeter players and 5 Leicester players does not suggest a squad picked on form. And I agree there may be tensions between the Saracens players and the rest. (I hear on the grapevine that it was Harlequins who instead of moaning about Saracens produced some documentary evidence of what had been going on and really set the enquiry in motion. They have never forgiven Saracens for nicking their tight head prop James Johnson and then not playing him.)

I do wonder what is in those Saracens accounts that they don't want examined.

If some of these Saracens players go abroad will the RFU allow them to play for England? Not a problem until the autumn.

Jack - I thought O'Mahony would get the Irish captaincy. Does this mean he is not sure of his place?
 

Aled

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Interesting points all: Regarding "which country to play for" it seems that many players who have "option 2" in their locker (A Grandparent from another country) are suddenly appearing for Wales, they never used to (for Wales that is). In the past it always surprised me how many Kilted Kiwis & Shamrock S Hemisphere there were, and yet how few Daffodil English/S Hemisphere there were....it seems they have been well hidden until now! However rugby is now professional and I think the £ (unless you play for Saracens) is predominantly in the International game, so perhaps we should not be surprised that some people are now taking option 2, how many of us have had to take option 2 in life? On occasions option 2 might turn out OK,..... career wise I took option 2, and you know what on the whole.....it turned out OK! Take what you want from my comments.
Cheers
Aled
 

Paul White

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I agree with all you say Aled, but call me old fashioned (which I most certainly am!!),surely when it comes to something as fundemental as your birth, then you should be playing for that country, full stop?

"Money rules" now I know, but is still rankles with me that, for example, half the England cricket team were born in SA.....they get everywhere don't they? And don't start me on Saracens' SA contingent over the years!!!
 

salarchaser

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I agree with all you say Aled, but call me old fashioned (which I most certainly am!!),surely when it comes to something as fundemental as your birth, then you should be playing for that country, full stop?

"Money rules" now I know, but is still rankles with me that, for example, half the England cricket team were born in SA.....they get everywhere don't they? And don't start me on Saracens' SA contingent over the years!!!

I get the ' country of parents birth' bit. Supose someone was in the forces and stationed abroad when a child was born? What would happen if you were born on a boat in the middle of the ocean? Exceptional I know, but valid.
You could be born in tahiti, to english parents and brought up in england from a few weeks old.
Sorry, you can only play rugby for tahiti.

The Vunipolas are cases in point though. Billy and Mako born in different countries, grew up in Wales but "chose" to play for England on residency having been recruited.

At least its not like the bad old days when the bachops used to swap between samoa and NZ. Think they ended up playing for Japan.

Country of birth, country of parents birth. Done!
17 years of age, if you have multiple options, make your choice in writing and stick to it. If IRB havent been notified by your 17th bithday, its your country of birth.
 

Handel

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I get the ' country of parents birth' bit. Supose someone was in the forces and stationed abroad when a child was born? What would happen if you were born on a boat in the middle of the ocean? Exceptional I know, but valid.
You could be born in tahiti, to english parents and brought up in england from a few weeks old.
Sorry, you can only play rugby for tahiti.

The Vunipolas are cases in point though. Billy and Mako born in different countries, grew up in Wales but "chose" to play for England on residency having been recruited.

At least its not like the bad old days when the bachops used to swap between samoa and NZ. Think they ended up playing for Japan.

Country of birth, country of parents birth. Done!
17 years of age, if you have multiple options, make your choice in writing and stick to it. If IRB havent been notified by your 17th bithday, its your country of birth.

Boat - it would depend what flag it was flying. Rowing boat - well I guess that is a problem.

I think I have given this example before, Olly Kohn the Harlequins lock was suddenly picked by Wales. We had a chance to talk to him about it shortly afterwards at Quins. His father and his father's family were all Czech with no interest in rugby at all. His mother was born in England but her father was Welsh and very keen on his rugby. So it was Olly's grandfather that introduced him to rugby and caused him to follow Wales. It had never occurred to him that he would play professionally. He was one of those people who came late to the game. He wouldn't have thought about electing who to play for when he was 17 because he barely played at all. This is not straightforward.

I remember as a boy looking in the Playfair Cricket Annual and seeing that Colin Cowdrey was born in India and Ted Dexter was born in Italy. First it made me wonder why they didn't play for their countries of birth. Then it occurred to me, Italy didn't play cricket.

I see the report on Saracens is now to be published. Good.
 

salarchaser

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Boat - it would depend what flag it was flying. Rowing boat - well I guess that is a problem.

I think I have given this example before, Olly Kohn the Harlequins lock was suddenly picked by Wales. We had a chance to talk to him about it shortly afterwards at Quins. His father and his father's family were all Czech with no interest in rugby at all. His mother was born in England but her father was Welsh and very keen on his rugby. So it was Olly's grandfather that introduced him to rugby and caused him to follow Wales. It had never occurred to him that he would play professionally. He was one of those people who came late to the game. He wouldn't have thought about electing who to play for when he was 17 because he barely played at all. This is not straightforward.

I remember as a boy looking in the Playfair Cricket Annual and seeing that Colin Cowdrey was born in India and Ted Dexter was born in Italy. First it made me wonder why they didn't play for their countries of birth. Then it occurred to me, Italy didn't play cricket.

I see the report on Saracens is now to be published. Good.

As you say Handel, not straightforward.
In business, I regularly say there is no right answer. You usually end up with the least wrong answer.

I remember Kohn coming into the Welsh squad. Took many by surprize.

He might have been an exception and would be caught by my last line of countrt of birth. Unlucky.
Its less wrong than the current system though, in my humble opinion.

Under my proposal, Mako could have played for NZ, country of birth or tonga, country of birth of parent. Billy could have played for tonga or australia, Taulupe could only have played for tonga.
All 3 grew up in wales while the vinipolas moved to england in their teens.
Under my proposal, none would be eligible for wales as all 3 were, or england, the vinipolas.

As i said, not right, but less wrong.
 

Aled

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I share an office with a London Born "Irishman" his Grandparents are Irish born, his parents and his brothers are all London born. He, his Grandfather, Father, and his brothers all played (amateur) rugby for London Irish and are passionate supporters of Ireland....yet support Middlesex and England at cricket! Cheers. Aled
 

Handel

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I share an office with a London Born "Irishman" his Grandparents are Irish born, his parents and his brothers are all London born. He, his Grandfather, Father, and his brothers all played (amateur) rugby for London Irish and are passionate supporters of Ireland....yet support Middlesex and England at cricket! Cheers. Aled

This is very common in London with not only the Irish but also the Scots and the Welsh. It is difficult to tell someone what nationality he is when he sees it differently.
 

Aled

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Also worth noting, I never knew how many Scots lived in Cornwall, .....during my Plymouth Poly days it seems half the Cornish contingent at Poly with me had Scottish ancestry who supported Scotland! (although they all supported Cornwall who were winning county rugby cups in those days)....if my memory serves me correctly a certain Andy Reed was a Cornishman of Scottish descent? (Correct me if I am wrong?)...there was one with a Welsh grandparent...he supported England of course! LOL:D
Cheers
Aled
 

mows

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Great start by Scotland.
Wish I knew what really happened with Fin.
Got to be townsends last competition.
Remind me why we got rid of a very able coach for this prima dona.
 

ozzyian

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Great start by Scotland.
Wish I knew what really happened with Fin.
Got to be townsends last competition.
Remind me why we got rid of a very able coach for this prima dona.

I'm guessing Finn told him to poke it. We now face the prospect of those idiots at the SRU paying out Townsend after another shyte campaign, I spose they may as well blow a few more hundred grand on unnecessary pay. It's still amateur hour in Scottish rugby, thank god we at least have a few pro level players and they're all rolling around in cash.
 

billy fish

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Also worth noting, I never knew how many Scots lived in Cornwall, .....during my Plymouth Poly days it seems half the Cornish contingent at Poly with me had Scottish ancestry who supported Scotland! (although they all supported Cornwall who were winning county rugby cups in those days)....if my memory serves me correctly a certain Andy Reed was a Cornishman of Scottish descent? (Correct me if I am wrong?)...there was one with a Welsh grandparent...he supported England of course! LOL:D
Cheers
Aled
I believe you are right about Andy Reed. I think he started off at Launceston when they were one of the best Cornish sides. Then on to Bath, I think , where he was probably first capped. At one time there was a definite player drain from Devon and Cornwall up to Bath ,Bristol and Gloucester. Some ,like Stack Stevens , went up to London to play for Quinn’s. This still left some very good players in the far south west that were probably good enough but the home ties were too strong.
 

salarchaser

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Great start by Scotland.
Wish I knew what really happened with Fin.
Got to be townsends last competition.
Remind me why we got rid of a very able coach for this prima dona.
It is alleged the team were allowed a couple beers after training. Despite players asking him to stop he kept drinking. Missed training the following morning.
Was told he should stay with the group but wouldn't he considered for the first game.
Took his ball home.
 
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