Sierra Gorva/ Phatagorva hydrid

TyneTraveller

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Sierra Gorva/ Phatagorva hybrid

This is a SBS for a Frodin-style templedog. It can be thought of as a dull Sierra Gorva or an extra- flashy Phatagorva ( both Frodin patterns)

It is tied on FITS tubing, Medium for the tube body and XS to hold the cone.

A few comments on the Frodin style templedogs- Think about these when tying these flies

1) They have a very pronounced taper to the wing. It is not a case that each wing is just slightly longer than the last. Each wing is a LOT longer AND thinner than the last.

2) There are very seldom any tags on Frodin's flies these days- He has mainly stopped using them. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that it is because he wants a taper to the fly, and adding bulk on the rear of the fly goes against the ' tapered towards the rear' theme.

3) Wing shape. These TDs do not have the wings all piled on top of the fly. The first wing is a roof that stretches across both sides of the tube as well as the top of it. This gives the fly 'shoulders' as Frodin calls them and means that the fly is an elongated teardrop in profile, from below as well from the side.

See this pic of a td from behind and see how the wing should make a hollow roof over the fly.



A final thought is about flash. I have , influenced my Macd, pretty much switched entirely to litebrite/ angel hair for my flash as it adds flash without interferring with the shape or structure of the wing. I also like to tie some very flashy and others with minimal flash or none at all. The bodies are bright and not all fish like a fly lit up like a Christmas tree.

Pattern:

Tubing: FITS clear M and XS
Rib: Silver small oval or largartun MINI flatbraid
Rear body: Gold holo tinsel or Largartun flatbraid
Front body: Orange glister sparkle dubbing
Body hackle: Orange cock
Wing one: Orange Arctic fox
Flash: Gold angel hair
Wing two: Hot orange templedog
Front hackle: webby schlappen
Wing three: Fiery brown templedog
Three strands of peacock herl, dyed orange
Jungle cock

Thread-Use what you like, no-one will ever see it..

Joining the medium and xs tubing.

To tie with these tubes it helps to have either Norling's needle, £8 from Guideline, or the same thing, 45p (standard felting needle) from texere yarns, they have a web shop..



First take a length of medium and a shorter length of xs tubing.Cut the end of the xs at a sharp angle, this will make it easier to put the cone on.



Cut a slice approx. 6mm long off the top of the medium tubing. insert a length of xs well into the medium tube- Certainly 1 cm past the end of the cut into the medium( It is not that far in yet as I have left room to add the thread)


. Attach the tying silk to the xs tube where it meets the end of the medium and make a few turns so you have a small hump of thread.



Push the xs tube further into the medium until the thread is at the thin end of the cut out of the medium tube ( almost disappearing completely into the medium tubing)then wrap the thread around the medium tubing hard enough to firmly secure the two together.



I have learnt the hard way that supergluing the two tubes together does not work and will either come undone or in cold water actually cause the plastic tubing to snap.


Now we can get tying.


Run the thread to within about 10-15mm of the end of the tubing. Tie in some small silver oval tinsel or better still lagartun mini flatbraid - you need a decent length as this will be ribbed all the way to the head of the fly later. Make four or five turns and then secure with thread. Do not cut off the spare!



Tie in some gold holo tinsel or better still gold lagartun flat braid. Cover the rear half of the tube with this and then tie off and trim.



Now take some orange dubbing- Litebrite or orange glister sparkle dubbing. Dub a heavy rope and take forwards to within 5mm of the tubing join. Pick out as many fibres as you can with the tips of scissors or a dubbing needle to get it as shaggy as possible.



Tie in an orange cock hackle by the base. Ideally it should be just a little bit longer than this one- not much longer, just a fraction- it is a well used cape I have at the moment. Palmer the hackle through the dubbing, stopping just past the end of the dubbing. Wind the silver tinsel or mini flatbraid forwards in open turns all the way forward so that it secures the hackle in place, and cut off the tip of the palmered feather neatly.

Pick out trapped dubbing fibres in between the hackle again to keep the shaggy profile. Tie in a few strands of gold angel hair that extend as far back as the dressing of the fly.




Now take a bunch of templedog or arctic fox tail (orange) and comb out the under fur. Tie in a bunch whose tips reach to the end of the tube. Spread the hair at the tying-in point in the same way you would spread bucktail on a tube fly until it is spread down the sides of the tube as well as over the top. Try to keep the thickness of the wing even on both sides ( this takes considerable practice!)

IMPORTANT- tie the wing in neatly keeping the tying thread in the same place so you have a short anchor and cut the excess hair off very close to the thread with a scalpel. It is essential to keep control of this tying in point.

Tie in a few more strands of gold angel hair that reach just past the first wing. Then add a considerably longer and thinner wing ( use less hair and only spread it slightly at the tying in point)

If in doubt, make the second wing longer than you think you should, not shorter. Make sure it is a good bit longer than the first, not just slightly. Again trim neatly very close to the thread with a sharp scalpel or craft knife.




Now select a black schlappen feather. Near the base are some thick webby fibres. Strip off the non- webby fibres just above them and tie in by the tip end. Turn three or four turns and tie off and trim.



Tie in a very long, very thin - not splayed at all -( Again- try it- take a ridiculously thin, ridiculously long piece and see how it looks) piece of fiery brown hair and tie in. Add three strands of peacock herl to the same length and add two long JC feathers that should reach well back on the fly and should follow the line of the join of the second and third wings.



Whip finish, put on a tiny drop of superglue and add a cone head to taste. Traditionally it would be gold but I haven't got any the right size at the mo- It could also be a Turbo cone but I will do an octopussy variant later- some slight differences..



This is a style of fly rather than a pattern, you can tie it in any colour
combo you like.

PS- photos are better than they were, but my camera's white balance is all over the place from shot to shot..
 
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granters

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That's excellent TT. Took me ages to get the tapered wing right because you don't realise how long you have to tie it. Look forward to more, and will be having a bash at this one myself. cheers
 

Black Boar

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Excellent SBS TT, The pattern looks great. Thanks for taking the time to put it together for everyone to look at.

BB
 

salar76

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Great flea Simon - my last 4 fish of the season all came to a Phatagorva bottle. Kolya was a big believer in them for spring. I have faith!
 

TyneTraveller

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Lawrence, they are great flies. I too have faith. Neil, have a look at this. I will try to get a better one, but this shows how it moves.

Interesting- That angle is how they all swim. It is not about the weight of the hook or the conehead. It is the drag created by the wing forcing the head up and the tail down.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTArAaAnJtE"]YouTube - Sierra gorva test[/ame] Now a longer version
 
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Springer

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[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTArAaAnJtE"]YouTube - Sierra gorva test[/ame]


This looks like the same fly testing machine Mr Frodin had at Kelso when I first saw the Torbo Cones.

Simon, this looks like a cone head is it? Do you have a clip with a turbo disk to compare any difference?

If so could you take the kettle off before filming it ;)
 

TyneTraveller

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Alan, I was trying to get that movie picture up for ages! How did you do it? Also how do you change the name of a post? That 'hydrid' is nagging at me.

I will do a turbo cone test for comparison. The one in the current video is the actual fly tied in the sbs- I managed to find a tungsten gold cone.

Cheers for the comments all. Simon
 
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easky

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Also how do you change the name of a post? That 'hydrid' is nagging at me.

typo sorted ;), its in 'advanced options' that I am not sure you have?

the testing machine looks great, I'm sure it would be good to look at the action of other patterns as well as the TD's. Love the sound, its like the fly is about to take off :D
 

Springer

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Alan, I was trying to get that movie picture up for ages! How did you do it?

It is a modification I am making so that when you post a you tube address it will play directly in the post. Its not quite right yet and will be made available to all members when I get it right.

Looks good though doesn't it ;)
 

easky

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I think it will be great feature once you have the final tweaks sorted Alan, it has tremendous potential, fly tying (eg. live SBS's) and casting immediately spring to mind (sorry for the pun :D).

another great addition to the forum ;)
 
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Sloggi

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Cheers TT.

It is the same as Frodin's.

On a technical point, is the fly shown in the YouTube video slighty light in the head? It swims a bit "head-up" - Frodin's were swimming level at all speeds. Perhaps a heavier cone would help?
 

roecaster

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Lovely fly and really clear SBS, TyneTraveller. Answered a lot of questions I had about this style of tying. You list wings 2 and 3 as templedog hair. Could you please reccomend a supplier for this as it looks considerably longer than arctic fox that I have been trying but is just too short. Thanks!
 

salar76

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Roecaster - you could try Frank at Turriff tackle. I bought some off him last year. It's not the cheapest of materials, but there is plenty of fantastic long hair in each piece that will go a very long way.
 

Sloggi

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Lovely fly and really clear SBS, TyneTraveller. Answered a lot of questions I had about this style of tying. You list wings 2 and 3 as templedog hair. Could you please reccomend a supplier for this as it looks considerably longer than arctic fox that I have been trying but is just too short. Thanks!

I buy Guideline's T/Dog hair and I always try to hand pick packs - the quality is generally good but some is excellent and worth the effort of hand picking.
 

TyneTraveller

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Neil, re. The attitude of the fly, it doesn't matter how much weight you put on, the TDs still swim at that attitude-at least in the fly tester where they are on a very short leader. I am certain it is becuase of the wing being the thing that creates more drag than the tube, so the wing swims level and the drag it creates is transferred to the tube at the tying in point just behind the cone, pulling it up. I don't see it as a issue, it further keeps the wing away from the hook and if I was a fish, I would be delighted to eat it as is...

The Octopussies swim a bit more level- I think because the massive front hackle also creates drag at the bottom of the fly. I will u tube one later on.

TD hair- Turriff or Lakeland ( Midgar TD)are the very best hair. the guideline is good but is not as good as those two. Not only is it longer and straighter than arctic fox and has less underfur, but it is shinier and slightly stiffer too. All of the patterns I tie have either black or brown over wings, so I only need X-long in those colours. It is a waste of material to use XL on the shorter wings and is actually harder to use than the shorter grades which are cheaper. Because the final wing is so fine, one pack of XL will tie 100's of flys.

I am very jealous of you Neil, I have to mail order all my materials and take pot luck. I have bought SO many crappy bucktails, you would not believe...
 
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Sloggi

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Neil, re. The attitude of the fly, it doesn't matter how much weight you put on, the TDs still swim at that attitude-at least in the fly tester where they are on a very short leader. I am certain it is becuase of the wing being the thing that creates more drag than the tube, so the wing swims level and the drag it creates is transferred to the tube at the tying in point just behind the cone, pulling it up. I don't see it as a issue, it further keeps the wing away from the hook and if I was a fish, I would be delighted to eat it as is...

The Octopussies swim a bit more level- I think because the massive front hackle also creates drag at the bottom of the fly. I will u tube one later on.

TD hair- Turriff or Lakeland ( Midgar TD)are the very best hair. the guideline is good but is not as good as those two. Not only is it longer and straighter than arctic fox and has less underfur, but it is shinier and slightly stiffer too. All of the patterns I tie have either black or brown over wings, so I only need X-long in those colours. It is a waste of material to use XL on the shorter wings and is actually harder to use than the shorter grades which are cheaper. Because the final wing is so fine, one pack of XL will tie 100's of flys.

I am very jealous of you Neil, I have to mail order all my materials and take pot luck. I have bought SO many crappy bucktails, you would not believe...

Thanks TT

Perhaps with a sinking line the fly will pull more level? How do fish swim - now there's a question :rolleyes:

I'll have a look at the other T/Dog hair. I've had good experience of Lakeland and I often pass Turriff, so will pop-in shortly.
 

TyneTraveller

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I have been trying it with a lot of flies and all the tubes fish at that angle - The turbo cones less so. It may be to do with the short leader coming in from the top of the tank, but honestly, I don't think so.


Here is a vid of your fly swap fly, just to check it wasn't something I was doing! Nice movement from the wing...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VAUiueabSg"]YouTube - Sloggi tube[/ame]
 

easky

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TT you seem to have sussed how to post up the movies to Youtube ;). Just wondered if you get the time could take some footage of other patterns eg. a hairwing like a Stoat, Flamethrower, Irish Shrimp, Cascade, collie etc.

I think it would be great to see how the action changes based on the various patterns. I know it probably takes a bit of time to set up but I think it would be fascinating to see the flies as the fish probably do :rolleyes:
 
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