Scottish politics

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Fruin

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Its actually the Commissions plan to take control of taxation, but if you want to read it differently so be it, I have no desire for the theory to be put to test. I will however agree re Greece. Its one of the reasons why it had a ‘technical’ govt imposed on it, when Papademos was made PM, effectively by Brussels. Funnily enough our net share of liabilities versus GDP actually puts us in Greece territory.......worrying.
Not meaning this as a "show me" statement, but out of genuine interest, where are you reading that the EU want to take control of taxation?
 

MikeCC

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Not meaning this as a "show me" statement, but out of genuine interest, where are you reading that the EU want to take control of taxation?

Theres plenty sources around the net, including a recent European Commission report concerning taxation and future years. The nuts and bolts however are that it precedes with member states being able to adjust its own taxation within limits but it then go’s on to describe the overwhelming caveat of being subject to EU goalposts, rules and regulations. Its all cunningly disguised under elimination of cross border tax obstacles, smooth cooperation for member states, control of tax avoidance and evasion, and cross border tax policy coordination, being just some of the key indicators of direction. It doesnt take a genius to work out what it actually means in reality. You want to play in the EU, you’ll play by their rules im afraid. It’ll be absolutely no different to having only limited wiggle room on tax powers from Westminster, only this time theres even less seats at the table. Frying pan.....fire.
 

Fruin

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Theres plenty sources around the net, including a recent European Commission report concerning taxation and future years. The nuts and bolts however are that it precedes with member states being able to adjust its own taxation within limits but it then go’s on to describe the overwhelming caveat of being subject to EU goalposts, rules and regulations. Its all cunningly disguised under elimination of cross border tax obstacles, smooth cooperation for member states, control of tax avoidance and evasion, and cross border tax policy coordination, being just some of the key indicators of direction. It doesnt take a genius to work out what it actually means in reality. You want to play in the EU, you’ll play by their rules im afraid. It’ll be absolutely no different to having only limited wiggle room on tax powers from Westminster, only this time theres even less seats at the table. Frying pan.....fire.
That's just the point though, there is wiggle room for all nations. Unlike today's arrangement where we hand over Scotland's tax take and get a non-negotiable and vastly reduced sum back in Barnett payments. As the Welsh first minister remarked recently, paying billions for HS2 and getting nothing in Barnett payments back for it, despite economic analysis showing that it would have a negative impact on the economy elsewhere in the UK.
Goalposts are fine for me, and gives some parameters to shoot through. at the moment we allow the other side to select our team!
 

Nigel Passmore

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I think you misunderstand my view point on Brexit. I said, many pages ago(my very words) - in relation to economic trade and the single market, Brexit screwed Scotland, as well as screwing it for the rest of the UK. Leaving the single market was by and large the single biggest disaster that could have happened.
British Business Bosses don't agree with your analysis, and they are the people who, er ...trade

 

Roag Fisher

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That's just the point though, there is wiggle room for all nations. Unlike today's arrangement where we hand over Scotland's tax take and get a non-negotiable and vastly reduced sum back in Barnett payments. As the Welsh first minister remarked recently, paying billions for HS2 and getting nothing in Barnett payments back for it, despite economic analysis showing that it would have a negative impact on the economy elsewhere in the UK.
Goalposts are fine for me, and gives some parameters to shoot through. at the moment we allow the other side to select our team!
More nonsense.
I keep this bookmarked for when that falsehood gets trotted out -

 

MikeCC

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British Business Bosses don't agree with your analysis, and they are the people who, er ...trade


If brexits no longer the worry then Nigel, its great news. It proves that people have moved on and we’re getting on with it, which is what I was saying earlier we needed to do. The Indy argument of rushing back to the EU becomes less favourable as time passes. We adapt and overcome rather than go backwards.
 

goosander

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Frying pan and fire: How can anyone claim that's Independence, to go back cap in hand to a major dodgy political union? It's just Remoaning, and playing games surely to throw away the real gains independence would bring?
That is one of the things I struggle to understand. We are on our own. Can see a good case for farmers and some others. People will buy goods depending on the price. Like wandering around banging your head against a wall. Great when you stop.
Bob.
 

tenet

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British Business Bosses don't agree with your analysis, and they are the people who, er ...trade

I hope so having just switched a large chunk of my pension from cash to equities. Hoping for a revival of income funds.
 

keirstream

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I hope so having just switched a large chunk of my pension from cash to equities. Hoping for a revival of income funds.
You'll be fine Tenet. My Personal pension funds are all in equities and have been from day 1
a lot of years ago now. Over the piece they have served me fantastically well and even through the pandemic
I braced myself for busking on the streets again but, in reality they held up extremely well, much better than cash holdings.
I have them placed from cautious to adventurous across a wide spectrum, mostly ethical with a large chunk in the Asian developing markets.
Works well for me.(y)
I do have to say, I have a fantastic F.A. who I have referred a few members on here to.
 

Horsbrugh

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Fruin

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More nonsense.
I keep this bookmarked for when that falsehood gets trotted out -

Seen this before. It is from ultra unionist Kevin Hague. Actually a strong statistical analysis based on the unknown. Does it factor in that Westminster spending on Scotlands behalf includes thousands of employees not based in Scotland and payimg taxes in England & Wales, or, that we've been paying interest on a debt we have no control over for decades? I guess we'll never know until we stop using nominal estmates based on population share.
 

SOS

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Have I missed something
According to the SNPs moneyfesto Scotland must be one the wealthiest countries in the world, where is it going to come from and how will be paid for and by who?.
Why not give us all a magic money tree to plant in our gardens, and by planting all those trees we could keep that pr1ck Harvie happy aswell .

 

Fruin

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Have I missed something
According to the SNPs moneyfesto Scotland must be one the wealthiest countries in the world, where is it going to come from and how will be paid for and by who?.
Why not give us all a magic money tree to plant in our gardens, and by planting all those trees we could keep that pr1ck Harvie happy aswell .

Again SOS, look at other countries with less to offer than Scotland, that are of a similar size population wise and ask yourself why they do better than us. Now, what is the difference between countries like Ireland, Denmark, Norway and Scotland? What could it be?
 

Walleye

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Nobody said it would ‘dry up’. If you agree that trade with rUK would continue(which is your point), then what has been said is it will cost us ALL more money, irrespective of which side of Gretna you stand on. As has been evidenced by Brexit, a hard border means checks, tariffs...customs....sanitary checks on food/plant products.....its all time and money......passed on to you, me, and everyone else. You cannot have Scotland in a single market with EU customs Union and Schengen area, as well single market customs union with rUK. The land border between between Scotland and England has to become an EU external border.

If you want to rejoin the EU, then fine, entirely your vote. But please understand the implications. If youd also rather the EU pulled our strings than Westminster, then again, your choice. I dont think the latter would bother you however, as quite clearly your entire issue appears to be just a deep seated hatred of anything Westminster related. Apologies if thats not the case but reading between the lines thats the way it comes across; youd happily take the shafting from the EU, in preference to Westminster. That unfortunately is a sorry argument.
The land border between England and an "independent" Scotland who are part of the EU, would be a very hard border. If it wasn't for the troubles, that is exactly what would have happened in Ireland. The EU will do everything possible to protect their single market and a hard border would be a condition of Scotland joining the EU.

Everyone knows this, even the SNP. When they are using Brexit as a reason for indyref3 they need to hide all the sh1t that would come from joining the EU. The UK were on the periphery of the EU. We paid tax$$$ to the EU to get free at the point of trade. We were dragged kicking and screaming into pretty much every treaty. We wanted nothing to do with the euro. We wanted nothing to do with an EU army. We wanted nothing to do with creeping federalisation. We wanted nothing to do with the ever increasing fiscal and political control from Brussels. I mean, come on guys, why do you think the EU is based in Brussels? Because if it was based in either Germany or France it would be viewed as an attempt at either of those two gaining control over the whole of Europe....sound familiar??

Everyone knows that should Scotland get independence there is no way they would join the EU because EU membership would be so much more than it was for the UK and it is blindingly obvious that a country who just voted for independence is not going to vote to give up that independence within a few short years.

The only reason joining the EU is being discussed is because the SNP are using brexit as an excuse to keep indy on the agenda otherwise the SNP are totally irrelevant for a generation, people will start to focus on their incompetence and their support will filter away.

An independent Scotland joining the EU just won't happen. Or rather should I say, if it does then Scotland would become a laughing stock on the world stage.
 

Walleye

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That's just the point though, there is wiggle room for all nations. Unlike today's arrangement where we hand over Scotland's tax take and get a non-negotiable and vastly reduced sum back in Barnett payments. As the Welsh first minister remarked recently, paying billions for HS2 and getting nothing in Barnett payments back for it, despite economic analysis showing that it would have a negative impact on the economy elsewhere in the UK.
Goalposts are fine for me, and gives some parameters to shoot through. at the moment we allow the other side to select our team!
How do Scotland hand over all their tax revenue then receive less back if you are running a £16bn deficit every year. Are you saying that if Scotland kept all its tax revenue the scottish government would be able to spend even more than they do now with Barnett, but without Barnett?
 

tenet

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You'll be fine Tenet. My Personal pension funds are all in equities and have been from day 1
a lot of years ago now. Over the piece they have served me fantastically well and even through the pandemic
I braced myself for busking on the streets again but, in reality they held up extremely well, much better than cash holdings.
I have them placed from cautious to adventurous across a wide spectrum, mostly ethical with a large chunk in the Asian developing markets.
Works well for me.(y)
I do have to say, I have a fantastic F.A. who I have referred a few members on here to.
Thanks for that - at 75 I've been in drawdown for nearly 20 years and up until last September was mostly in equities via Scottish Widows multi manager. Had to move the scheme as SW wouldn't switch to Flexible Drawdown and the last thing i needed was an annuity so transferred to Hargreaves Lansdown. Like you, my fund is bigger than I started all those years ago notwithstanding withdrawing an income which in total has exceeded the balance transferred. Long live Drawdown providing you can sleep at night with equity investment. Apologies for diverging from the thread topic.
 

Lamson v10

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The land border between England and an "independent" Scotland who are part of the EU, would be a very hard border. If it wasn't for the troubles, that is exactly what would have happened in Ireland. The EU will do everything possible to protect their single market and a hard border would be a condition of Scotland joining the EU.

Everyone knows this, even the SNP. When they are using Brexit as a reason for indyref3 they need to hide all the sh1t that would come from joining the EU. The UK were on the periphery of the EU. We paid tax$$$ to the EU to get free at the point of trade. We were dragged kicking and screaming into pretty much every treaty. We wanted nothing to do with the euro. We wanted nothing to do with an EU army. We wanted nothing to do with creeping federalisation. We wanted nothing to do with the ever increasing fiscal and political control from Brussels. I mean, come on guys, why do you think the EU is based in Brussels? Because if it was based in either Germany or France it would be viewed as an attempt at either of those two gaining control over the whole of Europe....sound familiar??

Everyone knows that should Scotland get independence there is no way they would join the EU because EU membership would be so much more than it was for the UK and it is blindingly obvious that a country who just voted for independence is not going to vote to give up that independence within a few short years.

The only reason joining the EU is being discussed is because the SNP are using brexit as an excuse to keep indy on the agenda otherwise the SNP are totally irrelevant for a generation, people will start to focus on their incompetence and their support will filter away.

An independent Scotland joining the EU just won't happen. Or rather should I say, if it does then Scotland would become a laughing stock on the world stage.

With all the lies and corruption the snp already have us the laughing stock
 

williegunn2

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Fruin

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Ireland, came across this the other day, not The National so probably not an accepted souce,


Always two sides to an argument. No doubt your link was from "Briefings for Britain" or some other similar social media link. I am assuming you don't subscribe to Irish News.
 

Fruin

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How do Scotland hand over all their tax revenue then receive less back if you are running a £16bn deficit every year. Are you saying that if Scotland kept all its tax revenue the scottish government would be able to spend even more than they do now with Barnett, but without Barnett?
I suggest you look up comparable deficits of other countries, first asking yourself how much of a problem a deficit is. Then ask yourself why Scotland actually has a deficit.
 

Walleye

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I suggest you look up comparable deficits of other countries, first asking yourself how much of a problem a deficit is. Then ask yourself why Scotland actually has a deficit.
Or you could stop deflecting and answer the question?
 

williegunn2

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Always two sides to an argument. No doubt your link was from "Briefings for Britain" or some other similar social media link. I am assuming you don't subscribe to Irish News.
Certainly wasn’t Briefings for Britain I’ve never heard of them. Just having a Google About.
 

Fruin

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Or you could stop deflecting and answer the question?
I might if it made sense. Let's forget the UK, forget Barnett, forget spending on Scotland's behalf, forget notional figures, and, simply look at Scotland. Look at the resources, the innovation, the productivity, the export levels and then compare this with similar countries. Use that as a starting point for actually thinking for ourselves if we could and should do better.
 

long Preston

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I might if it made sense. Let's forget the UK, forget Barnett, forget spending on Scotland's behalf, forget notional figures, and, simply look at Scotland. Look at the resources, the innovation, the productivity, the export levels and then compare this with similar countries. Use that as a starting point for actually thinking for ourselves if we could and should do better.
can't argue with your like of thought
 
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