Scottish politics

[MikeCC]

As a way if comparison, when Malta wanted to get Independence from the UK, they were told almost exactly the same scare stories as the UK has recycled for Scotland... "your economy is too weak", "your defecit is too large" et al.
Those lies do not correlate at all to what transpired. I am sure that the UK had some dodgy "notional" accounts for Malta as well.

The evolution of the Maltese economy since independence

EconStor is a publication server for scholarly economic literature, provided as a non-commercial public service by the ZBW.

www.econstor.eu

It's a worthwhile read in this context if anybody can be bothered to download the pdf.

I did wonder why ive never heard of the Malta argument before(independence - 1964). Anyway, I did some reading on it, theres an interesting history; including the bit where UK Govt funded(call it a sweetener) Malta with significant sums of money in its first 10 years of independence. Now theres an idea - im sure Bojo would put his hand in his pocket to fund our venture....might even be the equivalent in todays money which would cover the annual 16 billion deficit for the first decade??

 

[salmo76]

Yep , even now , I can see some similarities between Scotland under the SNP and Malta :-

Inside the corruption allegations plaguing Malta

The smallest nation in the European Union is earning an unsavory reputation, with a series of scandals involving allegations of bribery, cronyism and money laundering.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Nigel Passmore]

Perhaps my wording was misleading. What is true is that Scottish exports to the rest of the world are growing faster than those to rUK. Whether it stays that way in a post-Brexit world will only unfold as any impacts are felt. What is very true is that exports have risen quite markedly during SNP governance, but probably nobody wants to know about that on this thread.

The changes are minimal. I’ve provided your own governments’ data to show that. Yet your last sentence runs completely contra to that. In the circumstances it is reasonable to ask for you to provide data/evidence to back it.

Greivance statements may cut the mustard at a woad tinged freedom rabble in Govan, but won’t cut the ice here or with the majority of Scotts.

Regards

NHP

 

[Walleye]

As a way if comparison, when Malta wanted to get Independence from the UK, they were told almost exactly the same scare stories as the UK has recycled for Scotland... "your economy is too weak", "your defecit is too large" et al.

Just a point of order....it's not really the UK arguing against independence. Scots argue for independence, Scots argue against Independence. Apart from the politicians south of the border who have a political interest in keeping the union together the rUK couldn't really give a fig either way... If Scotland remains in the UK...great! If Scotland leaves...great!

Politicians have to care and get their oar in, its their job. But the rest of the 60million rUK people....meh. therenis little to no debate at all south of the wall and the only response I ever hear is "haven't they made their mind up yet?"

The reality is that our countries have a long and rich shared history and "brotherhood". That wouldn't change after independence just because Scotland would govern itself entirely and raise its own revenues. There is no animosity towards Scotland south of the border. There is no great fear of what the future might hold for rUK should Scotland leave. As my daughter would say "whatevs".
It really is a Scottish issue which you guys need to sort out once and for all, but don't think for a second that the general public in rUK have strong feelings either for or against, or even an opinion.

 

[Roag Fisher]

Just a point of order....it's not really the UK arguing against independence. Scots argue for independence, Scots argue against Independence. Apart from the politicians south of the border who have a political interest in keeping the union together the rUK couldn't really give a fig either way... If Scotland remains in the UK...great! If Scotland leaves...great!

Politicians have to care and get their oar in, its their job. But the rest of the 60million rUK people....meh. therenis little to no debate at all south of the wall and the only response I ever hear is "haven't they made their mind up yet?"

The reality is that our countries have a long and rich shared history and "brotherhood". That wouldn't change after independence just because Scotland would govern itself entirely and raise its own revenues. There is no animosity towards Scotland south of the border. There is no great fear of what the future might hold for rUK should Scotland leave. As my daughter would say "whatevs".
It really is a Scottish issue which you guys need to sort out once and for all, but don't think for a second that the general public in rUK have strong feelings either for or against, or even an opinion.

What do Englanders think of Scots who refer to the Union Jack as the butchers apron?

 

[Nabber]

Just a point of order....it's not really the UK arguing against independence. Scots argue for independence, Scots argue against Independence. Apart from the politicians south of the border who have a political interest in keeping the union together the rUK couldn't really give a fig either way... If Scotland remains in the UK...great! If Scotland leaves...great!

Politicians have to care and get their oar in, its their job. But the rest of the 60million rUK people....meh. therenis little to no debate at all south of the wall and the only response I ever hear is "haven't they made their mind up yet?"

The reality is that our countries have a long and rich shared history and "brotherhood". That wouldn't change after independence just because Scotland would govern itself entirely and raise its own revenues. There is no animosity towards Scotland south of the border. There is no great fear of what the future might hold for rUK should Scotland leave. As my daughter would say "whatevs".
It really is a Scottish issue which you guys need to sort out once and for all, but don't think for a second that the general public in rUK have strong feelings either for or against, or even an opinion.

Couldn't agree more. If the UK as a whole voted I am sure there would be an overwhelming YES for independence for Scotland.
It saddens me to see and hear the anti English rhetoric. There are political concerns which are inevitable but amongst the public, none whatsoever.
Get on with it, make a valid and informed social and economic case along with a plan to show how Scotland will evolve as an independent country either in or out of the EU.
But above all do not be misled by fanatics from whichever political party persuasion.

 

[Elibank]

What do Englanders think of Scots who refer to the Union Jack as the butchers apron?

To be honest, that’s the first time I’ve heard it.

 

[keirstream]

As a way if comparison, when Malta wanted to get Independence from the UK, they were told almost exactly the same scare stories as the UK has recycled for Scotland... "your economy is too weak", "your defecit is too large" et al.
Those lies do not correlate at all to what transpired. I am sure that the UK had some dodgy "notional" accounts for Malta as well.

The evolution of the Maltese economy since independence

EconStor is a publication server for scholarly economic literature, provided as a non-commercial public service by the ZBW.

www.econstor.eu

It's a worthwhile read in this context if anybody can be bothered to download the pdf.

Apart from the emerging stories of corruption that appears now to be rife in the government (where have we heard that before?)
Malta isn't exactly an "apples for apples" scenario is it?
A bit of a mongrel society that has been a part of so many different Empires they probably couldn't remember who was boss latterly.
And, although they were a target for the might of the Luftwaffe, who defended them and protected them from being overrun?
Yip, you've guessed it.
John Wayne and Telly Savalas.
Heroes.

 

[keirstream]

Couldn't agree more. If the UK as a whole voted I am sure there would be an overwhelming YES for independence for Scotland.
It saddens me to see and hear the anti English rhetoric.

Tell you what saddens me.
You have come on here and suggest that the English would quite arbitrarily ditch the Scots that are fighting to remain British.
Don't you think it upsets us to hear the anti English rhetoric being banded around by the S.N.P.?
It does more than that, it makes us fu**ing seething.
Nice 1st post on here B.T.W.

 

[bassfly]

Apart from the emerging stories of corruption that appears now to be rife in the government (where have we heard that before?)
Malta isn't exactly an "apples for apples" scenario is it?
A bit of a mongrel society that has been a part of so many different Empires they probably couldn't remember who was boss latterly.
And, although they were a target for the might of the Luftwaffe, who defended them and protected them from being overrun?
Yip, you've guessed it.
John Wayne and Telly Savalas.
Heroes.

John Wayne won the war on his own didn't he. He was everywhere and Telly should give Nippy one of his lollies so she can give her voice a rest.
Seriously has anything changed from all the arguments used, for and against, from the last indy vote.
It didn't seem a good idea then and even less now.
Give someone else a go Fruin.

 

[Walleye]

What do Englanders think of Scots who refer to the Union Jack as the butchers apron?

Never heard of it but now that I have....everyone is entitled to their opinion. As an Englishman, you get used to anti English rhetoric at quite an early age.

Like I said, the anti English rhetoric from the SNP is not really the point. Scotland determining their own future direction is a Scottish issue for Scotland and Scotland alone. The vast majority of English people would be unconcerned or unaffected with either outcome.

 

[Handel]

Just a point of order....it's not really the UK arguing against independence. Scots argue for independence, Scots argue against Independence. Apart from the politicians south of the border who have a political interest in keeping the union together the rUK couldn't really give a fig either way... If Scotland remains in the UK...great! If Scotland leaves...great!

Politicians have to care and get their oar in, its their job. But the rest of the 60million rUK people....meh. therenis little to no debate at all south of the wall and the only response I ever hear is "haven't they made their mind up yet?"

The reality is that our countries have a long and rich shared history and "brotherhood". That wouldn't change after independence just because Scotland would govern itself entirely and raise its own revenues. There is no animosity towards Scotland south of the border. There is no great fear of what the future might hold for rUK should Scotland leave. As my daughter would say "whatevs".
It really is a Scottish issue which you guys need to sort out once and for all, but don't think for a second that the general public in rUK have strong feelings either for or against, or even an opinion.

At the time of the first referendum it was common down here in the South of England to hear people in favour of Scottish independence. Why? Because the huge subsidy would come to an end. The only people I hear down here arguing against independence are themselves Scots and resent not having a vote.

 

[Nabber]

Tell you what saddens me.
You have come on here and suggest that the English would quite arbitrarily ditch the Scots that are fighting to remain British.
Don't you think it upsets us to hear the anti English rhetoric being banded around by the S.N.P.?
It does more than that, it makes us fu**ing seething.
Nice 1st post on here B.T.W.

Kiersream,
No I don't for one minute think that the English, Welsh or Northern Irish would arbitrarily ditch the Scots. On the contrary.
I am emphasising the view that it is a scottish matter and that the other nations believe it is up to the scottish people to decide.
I read the various comments in this blog and can see the points of view for and against independence. Your comments truly reflect your feelings and am sorry if I caused offence.
By the way, what is B.T.W?

 

[goosander]

To my mind it is a simple problem. Do 60-65 % of the population want independence Yes or No.
If yes then get people to run the country like Tom Hunter that have proved themselves. If no then forget the whole thing.
It is clear that the present lot of all party's are all in it for them self's and not for the good of the people.
Over and out.
Bob..

 

[Roag Fisher]

Never heard of it but now that I have....everyone is entitled to their opinion. As an Englishman, you get used to anti English rhetoric at quite an early age.

Like I said, the anti English rhetoric from the SNP is not really the point. Scotland determining their own future direction is a Scottish issue for Scotland and Scotland alone. The vast majority of English people would be unconcerned or unaffected with either outcome.

I thought we were all British.

 

[Lamson v10]

I thought we were all British.

Exactly RF, I'm very proud to be to be a british scot ,

 

[MikeCC]

I see the latest poll(2 - 7 April), this time from Savanta ComRes, shows the SNP failing to gain a majority(64 seats), contrary to last weeks poll that Ness Glen reported yesterday.....always the danger with reading too much into these things of course. It does however show a bit of a status quo, with the Greens(up) tipping the balance for majority....no change there then. On the Indy debate its polled at a straight 50/50 split again, excluding the dont knows. Interestingly it shows only 1 list seat for Alba. It also polled 67% believe Salmond is untrustworthy, 65% dishonest and 63% unfit for public office......amongst several other items.

For those in favour of a second referendum, only 38% showed in favour of one in the next 2 years, with the majority of 53% opting for a longer ‘within 5 years’....presumably pandemic recovery being the number 1 priority; which flies in the face of Sturgy wanting Indy2 in the first half of the next term.

 

[Fruin]

The changes are minimal. I’ve provided your own governments’ data to show that. Yet your last sentence runs completely contra to that. In the circumstances it is reasonable to ask for you to provide data/evidence to back it.

Greivance statements may cut the mustard at a woad tinged freedom rabble in Govan, but won’t cut the ice here or with the majority of Scotts.

Regards

NHP

Of course if you look at an individual year the exports increases don't look like much, but from 2007 (when the SNP came into power) to 2017 the SNP grew international exports by 57.6%. That doesn't appear minimal to me.

 

[Roag Fisher]

Of course if you look at an individual year the exports increases don't look like much, but from 2007 (when the SNP came into power) to 2017 the SNP grew international exports by 57.6%. That doesn't appear minimal to me.

Value or volume?

 

[Walleye]

I thought we were all British.

Are you suggesting Great Britain should decide Scotland's independence?

I am English and British.

 

[Roag Fisher]

Never heard of it but now that I have....everyone is entitled to their opinion. As an Englishman, you get used to anti English rhetoric at quite an early age.

Like I said, the anti English rhetoric from the SNP is not really the point. Scotland determining their own future direction is a Scottish issue for Scotland and Scotland alone. The vast majority of English people would be unconcerned or unaffected with either outcome.

It is anti British rhetoric, not anti English rhetoric. A lot of the clowns struggle to differentiate between the two.
I would have thought that if you were British you would have been keeping Britain as a whole.
You appear happy to let half the British people in Scotland to be removed from the British Union. (I may be wrong, but that is how it comes across).

 

[Walleye]

It is anti British rhetoric, not anti English rhetoric. A lot of the clowns struggle to differentiate between the two.
I would have thought that if you were British you would have been keeping Britain as a whole.
You appear happy to let half the British people in Scotland to be removed from the British Union. (I may be wrong, but that is how it comes across).

Not happy, I'm just not concerned either way. I'll still be English and British even if Scotland leaves. I'll only stop being British or a UK citizen if or when Great Britain and or the UK cease to be.

And if Scotland does get indyref 3 and Scotland votes for independence by 51:49 then that would be the direct democratic decision of Scotland and you and every other person in Britain who identifies as British would have to come to terms with that. That's democracy.

 

[acercon3]

Of course if you look at an individual year the exports increases don't look like much, but from 2007 (when the SNP came into power) to 2017 the SNP grew international exports by 57.6%. That doesn't appear minimal to me.

Fruin
Where can we see the deeper detail of this increase , ie category , values etc ?

 

[highlander gus]

Apart from the emerging stories of corruption that appears now to be rife in the government (where have we heard that before?)
Malta isn't exactly an "apples for apples" scenario is it?
A bit of a mongrel society that has been a part of so many different Empires they probably couldn't remember who was boss latterly.
And, although they were a target for the might of the Luftwaffe, who defended them and protected them from being overrun?
Yip, you've guessed it.
John Wayne and Telly Savalas.
Heroes.

Which was all to do with protecting supplies to north Africa and nothing to do with Malta per-say and keeping out the Axis supplies to North Africa

 

[Hoddom]

What do Englanders think of Scots who refer to the Union Jack as the butchers apron?

I think you over estimate the level of interest the English have in Scotland, the Scots and their politics. The English by and large are, I would suggest, rather disinterested in the squabbles in Scotland, and Wales for that matter. There is some irk among a few nationalists at the 'costs we have to bear to support the colonies', but other than that I doubt most English people really would care much either way about independence. They most certainly couldn't explain anything about recent SNP/Alba shenanigans nor butchers or anyone else's aprons. I doubt more than 30% of English people could name more than two living Scottish politicians and at least 50% would see indy ref 3 as a storm in a sporran.