Salmon/Sea Trout or Sea Trout/Salmon?

Rennie

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Got to thinking t'other day.I don't catch that many Sea Trout when I'm fishing for Salmon(assuming there's some there to catch of course), as largely I'm fishing Salmon patterns( flee fishing if I dare admit to that!) and fishing in a manner/place to try and catch Salmon, especially in day light hours any way.I tend to fish a single flee only and tend to fish a smaller slower flee than were I targeting the Sea Trout solely once the lights gone.
It's just that a few on here seem to get their fare share and more during daylight when Salmon are more likely to be the focus(the Tyne Anglers could shout louder here!).
Now as I don't fish a dropper, that could account for a large void in my catches as I won't be fishing a more specific flee for each species, or maybe fishing a single flee more Sea Trout orientated could also see a redress of the situation, but maybe at Salars loss?.
When I used to fish the Spey at Grantown or the Dee in early summer, I'd allways revert to a 1" Silver Stoats Tail after the daylight went or a bigger Black n Siver Waddy(both off the Salmon gear) and I'd catch a Sea Trout or so- but never a Salmon like this!, in fact switching to a bigger Sea Trout flee is a part of my day as the light begins to fade-certainly in late Spring, early Summer.
Whilst this line of tack has produced a Sea Trout or two, its never prolific, but equally its never produced a Salmon either.
The other side of the coin(for me any way!) is I've never had Salar on the pukka Sea Trout gear either, in the gloaming or even the pitch black, n'ere a sniff off of one!.
As my focus is usually almost 100% Salar orientated I can't grumble or shouldn't in all honesty.But it at times does rankle that maybe my blinkered approach is denying me some sport now n again and I don't think its down to merely flee pattern!-size and speed maybe certainly or the water I'm fishing too for that matter.
I do try and compromise, especially if conditions look favourable on a good evening, but for me it never seems to happen, it's "either or" that does the job with very little in the way of overlap.
So just wondering on the SFF massive's collective thoughts and accumulated wisdom.Am I reading something thats not really there, is this what actually happens when on the water, is there a compromise to fishing a certain way?, or should I just shut me rattle and get on with it all as ever.
Cheers me dears, Pedro.
 

Loxie

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Try a monkey or a sunray fished really quick: works for me!

I've caught the odd salmon whilst sea trout fishing but never very late at night. I once fished a pool down for salmon as the light was going, then retied my leader and put a whacking great Loxie on, probably 4"+ as it was May. I fished the pool down again and had a 9lb Salmon. It was dark enough to need a Headtorch to land.

A mate caught a salmon, again in May, on a surface lure in the dark.

I think in general that the higher and more coloured the water the easier it is to catch sea trout during the day, the lower and clearer the water the more likely to catch salmon at night, but my experience is that the former is far more likely than the latter. I expect that it varies greatly from river to river as well.
 

charlieH

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Like you, I haven't had very many sea trout when fishing for salmon in recent years, though I have had a few from the North Tyne on 'conventional' salmon flies and tactics. Those aside, almost all the sea trout I've had on salmon tackle have come when I've been stripping a Sunray-ish type of fly. So as you suggest, maybe the smaller, slower fly doesn't seem to attract sea trout nearly as much and perhaps stripping a long winged fly would be a way of getting more interest from both. I can't claim that's the reason I strip long winged flies, though; I just find it can be a very effective method of catching salmon. If it picks up a few sea trout as well, then that's very nice, but I do consider them to a be something of a by-catch. To be honest, a 2-3lb sea trout doesn't put up much of a fight on a 15' rod, and a part of me always thinks it's a shame to catch them on heavy salmon tackle, when they are such fun on a single hander.
 

flyfifer

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My brother and I fished the lower Tay last season for salmon and we caught quite a few sea trout. We had sea trout up to 5lb using intermediate lines and brown tips using monkey type flies fished fast. One memorable blue sky day we had a three pounder each. Personally I think they like the lure fished fast.
 

Rrrr

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A few of the tyne lads (me included) fish a small dropper like a stoats or tyne toucan down to a size 16 or even smaller on a dropper which may account for the seatrout.
Or if all else fails and you really want a seatrout, a size 1 mepp flicked upstream in daytime

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bradan

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I get my fair share of day-time sea trout every year when fishing the Earn for salmon. A size 6 Cascade seems to be their tipple.
 
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In the lochs and rivers of the Hebrides you're as likely to pick up a finnock or sea trout as a grilse or salmon. Flies used tend to be smaller than on the bigger rivers and are commonly fished in pairs or a team of three, sizes 12 to 8, with a fussy fly on the bob. Bumbles, Muddlers and Dabblers all do well as wake flies. Wee doubles or singles occupy the point with Cascades, Silver Stoats and Ally's frequently doing well, but the first Lewis salmon I gillied to took a size 10 Mallard & Claret on the point and you don't get much troutier than an M&C!
Regarding taking times, Lewis & Harris sea trout oblige during the daylight along with the salmon - and that can be almost 24 hrs in high summer - but I've never done well here after dark, not even with a white Muddler stripped fast. Not to say it can't work .... I've heard reports that it can. I have also heard it said that ''Lewis salmon don't take after five'' but I think that's gillies' craik to get home on time. ;)

I remember Arthur Oglesby saying that he thought that the reason his wife caught more salmon that he did, and why he caught more sea trout than she, while they were at Amhuinnsuidhe was down to their position in the boat.
His wife sat at the stern casting freely out of the back in a Hebridean drift. Arthur was sat in the prow casting to the side. His theory was that he was forced to retrieve more quickly in order not to let his line interfere with the oarsman's strokes whilst Mrs. O. could retrieve more slowly as the gillie worked the boat along the shore. The salmon, he hypothesised, preferred a slow retrieve, the sea trout liked to chase a faster fly.

I do like the idea but personally never noticed this distinction during the season I gillied at Amhuinnsuidhe though I looked for it!

In the few years I was on the Spey I found the best time for sea trout was in the gloaming but, as I was working, I very seldom fished more than an hour into the dark. My best results came from working the faster water at the neck of a pool as the light faded. Often I used a 9ft #7/8, WF/F, with two flies just as I would in Lewis, with something fussy on the bob, something small and streamline below - a Teal, Blue & Silver, Greenwell's Glory, Peter Ross, size 10 or 12, a wee double if the water's heavy. It worked nicely for me when I was there. There was no need to cover the whole river. As darkness fell the sea trout would come in close to the bank. A little stealth and a roll cast was often all that was needed to cover fish. Of course, if you are fishing close in for sea trout in the dusk I imagine you're less likely to be covering salmon. Having said that, I often find salmon very close in the margins first thing in the morning so they must mosey into the bank at some stage of the night.

So much still to learn .....
 

Mattytree

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I always seem to catch them on salmon Flys, I never set out to catch them but there are definitely sea trout or smaller salmon lies and big fish ie large sea trout or salmon lies on the beats I fish .. I can pretty much guarantee what a fish will be on the take with the position it grabs the fly in the river.
Usually though a retriever or fast swing is needed to entice a sea trout to take I have found.
 

barongan

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Try a monkey or a sunray fished really quick: works for me!

I've caught the odd salmon whilst sea trout fishing but never very late at night. I once fished a pool down for salmon as the light was going, then retied my leader and put a whacking great Loxie on, probably 4"+ as it was May. I fished the pool down again and had a 9lb Salmon. It was dark enough to need a Headtorch to land.

A mate caught a salmon, again in May, on a surface lure in the dark.

I think in general that the higher and more coloured the water the easier it is to catch sea trout during the day, the lower and clearer the water the more likely to catch salmon at night, but my experience is that the former is far more likely than the latter. I expect that it varies greatly from river to river as well.
Nice
 
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SP8

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I used to catch seatrout regularly during the day on the Main Tyne when fishing for salmon. Funnily enough I would say a small Allys was often the fly but latterly I tried a dropper of a small plastic silver stoat tube and that caught too. I think the Tyne maybe something of an exception. I certainly haven't caught many elsewhere when salmon fishing apart from the only time I fished the Border Esk. It was low water in August and I had gone salmon fishing. In case there were any seatrout about I put a silver stoat on the dropper and an Allys for the salmon on the point. I caught three seatrout in faster riffles and all took the Allys! So much for theories.

SP8
 
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Grassy_Knollington

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During the day I've had quite a few ST over the years off the N Tyne. We used to fish up round Bellingham in September and regardless of water, we seemed to be certain to hook a couple of ST over 2 days and we usually got a Salmon each too, sometimes quite a few more than that. At that time I decided that a marabou winged black and gold fly was irresistible to the Sea Trout, I certainly wasn't conscious of fishing it any differently and it caught Salmon too, I just caught a lot more ST. I suspect that was because I was only in my teens, couldn't wade much and there was only a small area where I could really fly fish effectively, that just happened to be ST town most of the time.

in 2018 I got a couple of days on the lower N Tyne while back home. My Brother and I started fishing on day 1. He took the tail of a pool and I started in the head of the next pool down. He was into a ST within 5 mins, dropped it, then hooked another after about 30 mins. He landed the second one a 3.5lb ST which looked as much like a brownie with Sea lice as it is possible to get. He carried on and dropped another ST on about an hour after he started. All of this on a No 10 Munro Killer tied on the end of 10ft of level mono with a Spey line, which he overhead cast. Watching him is a bit unconventional in some ways but he's pretty good at getting his fly in the right place and, importantly, he creates little or no disturbance on the water.

We swapped beats when we'd finished our pools and I didn't get a chance to fish that pool tail until the next day. This time my Dad had replaced my brother and he didn't fancy the tail because the wading is a little bit dodgy. I got the 'switch' rod out, put on a copper shrimp fly on a size 14 ED treble, a long, tapered leader a 6/7 AFS. I had 2 fish come to the fly in my first run down. I went back up and tried moving slow, then quick then medium, with different flies, no joy. I went back to the size 14 shrimp fly and worked my way back up the tail to the start point. Eventually, after a 90 degree cast and a really steady 6-8@ strip return, I got a solid take and was surprised to land a nice wee Grilse at about 5lb.

My dad decided the wading wasn't so bad after all and he came to have a quick go in the same place. After about 4 or 5 casts he hooked and quickly lost what looked like a nice Salmon (but could have been a big ST of course) on his usual size 8 Cascade and then I got back in.

I spent the next hour or so going up and down in fly size, speed & angle of cast, touching 3 or 4 fish. Eventually I managed to hook and then lose what I am pretty sure was a ST of about 3-4lb. That took on the dangle with the line pivoting round a rock and the fly moving at real snails pace. The fly was a, (for me) tiny silver stoat, tied on a really small size 14 Scandi double. All of these fish were contacted on dull days in daylight between 0730 and 1400. No fish showed on the surface in the pool tail at any time, although I'm quite confident I saw the grilse move up the pool below as I was fishing. I'd have loved to dive down to see the numbers of ST in that shoal.

Not sure what all this tells me or anyone else, but if there are any rules, then I wish somebody would tell the bloody fish. :D
 

Aidan Rocks

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I fish for salmon and use a dropper. I started off on seatrout but after my first salmon that all changed. I still get my fair share of seatrout. Biggest this year was 4.5 lb. Most take the small salmon shrimps during the day as I do not try for the trout any more. I think this is mostly down to thickness of leader. Seatrout are extremely line shy and only a really daft one will take on 15 lb maxima. So I fish thin clear leaders as the seatrout brighten up anotherwise blank day. I also think sometimes salmon are also line shy. Seatrout definitely like the fly fished faster and I generally get them on the retrieve not the swing. I bet the guys fishing the lakes for salmon and seatrout are on 10lb or less!
 
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