Rods Range- Different Actions

acerspader

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I have four rods form a range of models in 12ft7, 13ft7 and 14ft8.

About five years ago, I bought the 13ft7 rod first and loved the action and tempo. Then I bought the shorter and longer model, and the action is way different. Way stiffer and tip action. Is this common to all rod makes? Is it impossible to make a rod range of size with same action?

It is a shame really.

Also, I notice a lot of rods makers calling a 10 weight a 9 weight. Why is this? Is it to make rods easier to cast by heavier load?
 

Tangled

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Yes it does appear to be common. I was reading something by Paul Ardon a few days ago - he says that you can't rely on the actions of the rods being the same across the range, you have to test them. Other cosmetic things will be the same - cork, whippings, resin, rings, colour, label! etc, but apparently it's very hard to achieve consistency of action Across the range. Grrrr!
 

MCXFisher

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Sadly this problem is all too common. I first encountered it with the original production run of the Loop Cross S1. The only range with total consistency end to end was the old Vision Cult, probably because the design brief - medium, easy, deep, full action - was so specific.

The roots of the problem lies in the fact that production runs of salmon rods are incredibly small in industrial and commercial terms. When I researched the subject 8 years ago I discovered that the UK and Irish market for premium salmon fly rods (i.e. £300 and up) amounted to only 1,000 units. If you then split that between the numerous players - Sage, Hardy, Loomis, Guideline, Loop, Vision, LTS etc - you can see that the sales of any one model of a given length will be tiny. It's only really in the USA that you are looking at commercial volumes, and even there it's a bit of a cottage industry - see the Loomis film. And please let's avoid the old saw of over-pricing, rip offs and gross profits - as it's not true: no one is making significant profits in the salmon rod business and Hardy was losing a fortune on every one it made prior to the Pure take-over.

As a result, the cost of design, tooling, prototypes and testing can rapidly eat up any prospect of a profit. This leads to corners being cut, especially on tooling (e.g. re-using a mandrel used for a previous model - the internal diameters of the Cross 14' were the same as the Multi.....), prototype development and testing (you may have to sell 100 of a model to cover the cost of 2 prototypes). The consequence is inconsistency across the range and non-compliance with the stated specification.
 

bankwheel

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Agree with most of what MCXFisher says but sometimes rods in a range are deliberately made different. Think of the original GASS rods from Loop, the action of the 14' 8 weight was vastly different from the 11'6" 9 weight, this was designed to fish big waters close to the edge of the river. Hardy and Greys also had something similar with 12'6" rods for 7 and 9 weights, the actions were quite different.
 

ibm59

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Sadly this problem is all too common. I first encountered it with the original production run of the Loop Cross S1. The only range with total consistency end to end was the old Vision Cult, probably because the design brief - medium, easy, deep, full action - was so specific.

The roots of the problem lies in the fact that production runs of salmon rods are incredibly small in industrial and commercial terms. When I researched the subject 8 years ago I discovered that the UK and Irish market for premium salmon fly rods (i.e. £300 and up) amounted to only 1,000 units. If you then split that between the numerous players - Sage, Hardy, Loomis, Guideline, Loop, Vision, LTS etc - you can see that the sales of any one model of a given length will be tiny. It's only really in the USA that you are looking at commercial volumes, and even there it's a bit of a cottage industry - see the Loomis film. And please let's avoid the old saw of over-pricing, rip offs and gross profits - as it's not true: no one is making significant profits in the salmon rod business and Hardy was losing a fortune on every one it made prior to the Pure take-over.

As a result, the cost of design, tooling, prototypes and testing can rapidly eat up any prospect of a profit. This leads to corners being cut, especially on tooling (e.g. re-using a mandrel used for a previous model - the internal diameters of the Cross 14' were the same as the Multi.....), prototype development and testing (you may have to sell 100 of a model to cover the cost of 2 prototypes). The consequence is inconsistency across the range and non-compliance with the stated specification.

The same issue is just as prevalent in trout rod ranges too , Michael.
 

christian roulleau

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Completely agree with MCXFisher, only the series of cult rods offered this feature, I have 13'4 13'8 and 14'7, and it is necessary
admit that finding the same action is a real pleasure and a gain fishing efficiency
 

charlieH

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I think it's fair to say that Bruce & Walker rods tend to be fairly consistent across their respective ranges. I have Powerlites in 14', 15' and 16', and Norways in 13', 14' and 16' (I have cast the 15' but not owned it - I have the 15'3" Kola instead!). Of the two ranges the Powerlites are a bit more through actioned than the Norways, but I think that within both ranges you can say there is a 'family resemblance'.
 

Icelander05

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I do own a couple of CND rods and I would say that (Specialist or Solstice series) on those only the length and the weight differ but not the action. Unfortunately they are a bit pricy. And I agree on the statement of the Vision Cult series.
Icelander05
 

rotenone

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I have four rods form a range of models in 12ft7, 13ft7 and 14ft8.

About five years ago, I bought the 13ft7 rod first and loved the action and tempo. Then I bought the shorter and longer model, and the action is way different. Way stiffer and tip action. Is this common to all rod makes? Is it impossible to make a rod range of size with same action?

It is a shame really.

Also, I notice a lot of rods makers calling a 10 weight a 9 weight. Why is this? Is it to make rods easier to cast by heavier load?
Which series/brand of rod is it out of interest? I think it quite common with fast action Scandinavia rods with hyperbolic actions to find consistency through different lengths, in my exp they sometimes try to compensate in shorter models by making them stiffer/faster where as a Scottish style progressive spey rod action will remain more consistent throughout different lengths you can see this point through the posts above, bruce and walker, cnd and vision cult all being mentioned with consistency common thing being progressive and powerful actions

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acerspader

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Which series/brand of rod is it out of interest? I think it quite common with fast action Scandinavia rods with hyperbolic actions to find consistency through different lengths, in my exp they sometimes try to compensate in shorter models by making them stiffer/faster where as a Scottish style progressive spey rod action will remain more consistent throughout different lengths you can see this point through the posts above, bruce and walker, cnd and vision cult all being mentioned with consistency common thing being progressive and powerful actions

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Hey rotenone,

It is the first Mackenzie Atlas series, I loved the 13ft7 model and it suited my style of casting. But found the 12ft7 and 14ft8 quite stiff, I am sure there would be others who preferred the stiffer rods and not the 13ft7 model.
 

rotenone

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Hey rotenone,

It is the first Mackenzie Atlas series, I loved the 13ft7 model and it suited my style of casting. But found the 12ft7 and 14ft8 quite stiff, I am sure there would be others who preferred the stiffer rods and not the 13ft7 model.
Ive not tried those rods only th orginal models , but I did find some Mackenzie rods a little stiff/fast for my tastes great rods though, its most likely a purpose design for a specific type of built into that blank given the designers huge experience ,I found this many times the only rods I am confident in buying blind are gaelforce destination or cnd bias versa as they are so consistent in their actions across the range.



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1kofly

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Hi, that is why I try the rod before buying if possible or just having right attitude. My approach is to treat unknown rod as a trial purchase and I am always menthaly prepared to resell ;) part of the game :)
 
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