River Tweed 2020

marty31

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Ok coneheads your a clever guy, these fish might have been weighed on the same butchers scales you weigh the xmas turkeys on, put you expert opinion on this one! Just for you!
 

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JoeE

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I can't be bothered wading through all the ******** on this thread. Can somebody sensible tell me how the upper river is fishing? I hope to be fishing Glenormiston before the month end.

SP8

Few fish about, when you there as Ill be about soon myself
 
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Salad Dodger

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Only one joke here,is the exaggerated weights that are put up on web sites , why some want to do this ?simply known as "cheating " you cannot give your opinion of anything on this forum without the sniping troll comments, I have been called all names and it was me that went on me hols .
The 35lb pic on UC no more than 36/37 inches in length , the Mclintock weight net being 32ins X 28 Ins, so no insulting troll replies . I returned a fish similar length 36 inches in length a few days ago and estimated it 18 lbs, and definitely not double the weight @ 35lbs. that is why in earlier posts I have quoted catching 50 around the 18lb mark . and not 50 around the 35 lb. The fish I caught was a coloured cock fish too, it would of made 20/21 lbs when fresh ?
For some members on here they do lose weight when they are resident in our rivers awaiting redding . My friend said was his foot on the weigh net when weighing the fish ?

Can I say from the off, going from the photograph supplied by the captor, I agree that the fish does not look 16kg/35lbs. The captor was asked if their was another picture and there was only 2 taken that were near identical. He was more concerned about returning the fish.

I am also not going down the CSI Forensics route of the size of net frame etc. (33" x 27" by the way)

The captor has previous experience of landing 3 fish at 19 1/2lbs so he would be well aware if the fish was around 18lbs.

A length measurement was taken against a Sharpe's wading staff and was around the 42" mark.
As I said in post #319, neither a photograph or a length measurement alone can give an accurate weight.

The fish was described by the ghillie as one of the fattest fish he has seen in a long time, "a pig with fins"

The only accurate way is to weigh the fish, which it was and was confirmed by the ghillie and the captor at 16kg or 35lbs.

The beat has nothing to gain by giving false weights, in fact, has a lot more to lose. The fact that it is prepared to add pictures and be well aware that they will be scrutinised rightly or wrongly because it puts trust in the ghillie and the captor shows it has nothing to hide.

The beat is not sold as a big fish beat, there is no mention on it that, on 2 occasions, anglers have won the Bemersyde Trophy
 

Salad Dodger

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I can't be bothered wading through all the ******** on this thread. Can somebody sensible tell me how the upper river is fishing? I hope to be fishing Glenormiston before the month end.

SP8

There are plenty fish in the upper river and fish are running on this extra water. Sadly the upper river is still only being lightly fished so I believe we are not getting a true representation.

Popular flies are the yellow and black bottle tube, Iain Bain Special and small Red or Black Francis. Fished on either an intermediate tip or line and cast more square than normal to fish the fly "fast"
 

Lamson v10

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There are plenty fish in the upper river and fish are running on this extra water. Sadly the upper river is still only being lightly fished so I believe we are not getting a true representation.

Popular flies are the yellow and black bottle tube, Iain Bain Special and small Red or Black Francis. Fished on either an intermediate tip or line and cast more square than normal to fish the fly "fast"

You forgot the willie gunn sir ? ???
 

Horsbrugh

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Can I say from the off, going from the photograph supplied by the captor, I agree that the fish does not look 16kg/35lbs. The captor was asked if their was another picture and there was only 2 taken that were near identical. He was more concerned about returning the fish.

I am also not going down the CSI Forensics route of the size of net frame etc. (33" x 27" by the way)

The captor has previous experience of landing 3 fish at 19 1/2lbs so he would be well aware if the fish was around 18lbs.

A length measurement was taken against a Sharpe's wading staff and was around the 42" mark.
As I said in post #319, neither a photograph or a length measurement alone can give an accurate weight.

The fish was described by the ghillie as one of the fattest fish he has seen in a long time, "a pig with fins"

The only accurate way is to weigh the fish, which it was and was confirmed by the ghillie and the captor at 16kg or 35lbs.

The beat has nothing to gain by giving false weights, in fact, has a lot more to lose. The fact that it is prepared to add pictures and be well aware that they will be scrutinised rightly or wrongly because it puts trust in the ghillie and the captor shows it has nothing to hide.

The beat is not sold as a big fish beat, there is no mention on it that, on 2 occasions, anglers have won the Bemersyde Trophy


I would just like to say, that I know the beat owner personally and I have seen the email from the captor, with the photos attached. The angler was obviously highly delighted with his time at Upper Caberstone. The fish was weighed at 16kg and witnessed, so there is no dispute.

We have all seen the vastly differing estimates that a photo can generate. Therefore, I think it very sad that someones “fish of a life time” has been so publicly criticised and the weight disputed by a member on here, clearly out to just stir up controversy.

The slanderous remarks from a certain member are completely unjustified and totally unnecessary. I would urge the moderators, at the very minimum, to insist on a public apology, or preferably, pull the plug for good, on a member who is clearly out to just cause trouble and wind up who ever he decides to pick a fight with.
 

Salad Dodger

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What are peoples thoughts on a second beat deciding to close before the 30th November, Dryburgh Upper is closing at the end of this month and previously closed on the 14th November last year. Another beat on the upper river has been closing around 2 weeks earlier since 2018.

To encourage a healthy debate, please try not to use comments like "should close such and such a date" without giving your reason why.

There is now strong evidence that the river is in some form of transition with the main run coming late spring and summer and the marked decline in the autumn run along with earlier spawning.

I think it is far better for individual beats to decide when to close, rather than pushing for a legislation change for the entire river. My reason being, if the runs changed again it would be far more difficult to change the legislation to a later closing date.

My view is that when a salmon enters the river, it is to spawn, irrespective of it being sea-liced chrome or coloured in "tartan breeks," it is the river to spawn. I find the anglers argument that it is acceptable to catch silver fish and not coloured river fish completely hypercritical, with the exception of when a fish is killed for the table. In saying that, I have never killed a coloured fish and ate it so I can't say that is fully correct.

There is also the old chestnut of "pulling fish off the redds."It's 2020, nobody is going out with a "torch and a cleek" or throwing a Walkerburn Angel on the end of some piano wire over the backs of spawning salmon.

Anyone with any experience of the river and fishing legitimately, will tell you when fish are focused on spawning, it is almost impossible to catch them.

A counter argument, some fresh fish are still running, nowhere near what there used to be, but there are still some. Again anyone who knows the river, knows that when late running fish enters the river, they don't hang about and head straight to the upper reaches.

My personal view is that when a beat has a good number of clearly visible redds, they should serious consider closing. This would be to minimise any unintended risk of foul hooking a spawning fish and also it is quite often forgotten that it is an offence under the Freshwater Fisheries Act to knowingly disturb a redd. How you define knowingly disturb is anyone's guess.

Again a counter argument, that some beats close a section of their beat off to anglers. Is it fair to arrive at a beat to fish and be told not to fish certain sections?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
 
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nickolas

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What are peoples thoughts on a second beat deciding to close before the 30th November, Dryburgh Upper is closing at the end of this month and previously closed on the 14th November last year. Another beat on the upper river has been closing around 2 weeks earlier since 2018.

To encourage a healthy debate, please try not to use comments like "should close such and such a date" without giving your reason why.

There is now strong evidence that the river is in some form of transition with the main run coming late spring and summer and the marked decline in the autumn run along with earlier spawning.

I think it is far better for individual beats to decide when to close, rather than pushing for a legislation change for the entire river. My reason being, if the runs changed again it would be far more difficult to change the legislation to a later closing date.

My view is that when a salmon enters the river, it is to spawn, irrespective of it being sea-liced chrome or coloured in "tartan breeks," it is the river to spawn. I find the anglers argument that it is acceptable to catch silver fish and not coloured river fish completely hypercritical, with the exception of when a fish is killed for the table. In saying that, I have never killed a coloured fish and ate it so I can't say that is fully correct.

There is also the old chestnut of "pulling fish off the redds."It's 2020, nobody is going out with a "torch and a cleek" or throwing a Walkerburn Angel on the end of some piano wire over the backs of spawning salmon.

Anyone with any experience of the river and fishing legitimately, will tell you when fish are focused on spawning, it is almost impossible to catch them.

A counter argument, some fresh fish are still running, nowhere near what there used to be, but there are still some. Again anyone who knows the river, knows that when late running fish enters the river, they don't hang about and head straight to the upper reaches.

My personal view is that when a beat has a good number of clearly visible redds, they should serious consider closing. This would be to minimise any unintended risk of foul hooking a spawning fish and also it is quite often forgotten that it is an offence under the Freshwater Fisheries Act to knowingly disturb a redd. How you define knowingly disturb is anyone's guess.

Again a counter argument, that some beats close a section of their beat, off to anglers. Is it fair to arrive at a beat to fish and be told not to fish certain sections?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
[

Salad dodger, have you asked the two beats in question why they are shutting earlier than the normal, this may give an answer to your questions.
 

Salad Dodger

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I already know the answer why the two beats are closing early. My post was to ask forum members for their thoughts and hopefully start an engaging debate.
 

lefthandup

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I've fished my local river in the past week (Tweed trib) in fact I'm just in the door.
Great water height but for me the feeling is gone ,just something in the back of my mind that's the season done.

The hardest thing about it is packing up the rods and knowing I'll not be fishing until the spring.

However, would I like one last cast on the upper Tweed?.... absolutely and I'd probably go for it this Saturday if I decide I really want to go...and I don't blame anyone for doing so.

Very difficult for the upper river considering how the runs have changed and lots of spawning fish even down on the lower beats.

I guess it comes down to money v future conservation in hope that the cycle changes back to what it once was.

Very difficult to answer considering people's livelihood's are affected.
 

charlieH

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This isn't a question that's exclusive to Tweed fisheries - I wonder how many genuinely fresh fish have been taken on the Beauly, for example, since the start of this month? And I agree entirely that beat owners should exercise some discretion as to whether or not to let their fishing at certain times of the year. I believe there are already some beats that do this at the start of the season (eg Islamouth, and possibly also Castle Grant). No doubt they could gain a bit of extra revenue from rods who fancy a day or two's 'kelt bashing', but the owners choose not to encourage that sort of thing. Back in the day, I believe that Park used to more or less stop fishing properly at the end of June, on the basis that by then the run of fresh fish was all but over. And years ago I fished the Helmsdale in September, and they used to close one beat (3 above) and treat it as a sanctuary for the last month of the season. So there's nothing new in this.

Of course, most beat owners will wish to get some return on their capital (and, let's face it, owning salmon fishing isn't exactly a good way to get rich), but for me at least, when there are evidently very few if any fresh fish around and the resident stock are getting ready for spawning, there comes a point when the fish should be left alone and the beat left unlet. Simply hiding behind the law (i.e. claiming that, because it's the legal season, that gives them carte blanche to fish, regardless of the condition of the fish) just isn't good enough in these more conservation-minded days.

I also agree that, if owners don't show themselves to be acting responsibly, there is a danger that the season will be legislated away from them, and it will then be very difficult to get it restored when or if the runs do swing back (which will probably be in 60 years or so, if the past is any predictor of the future). Far better that they should be seen to respond voluntarily to changes in run patterns, so that legislation isn't needed.
 

Salad Dodger

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A thought on conservation from lefthandup’s and CharlieH’s post

The Tweed has fished for many years until the end of November.
Has this had any effect on the number of offspring? The juvenile electro fishing results, done by the Tweed Foundation, for the most part have had a stable baseline.

If earlier spawning, mixed with angler pressure, starts to cause a drop in juvenile populations, the RTC may have to seek a change to legislation, if beats are reluctant to adjust their season.

Speculation of course.

I don’t think it is all doom and gloom for the upper river. If you look at the catches this season, they are catching fish earlier. I think the main issue is convincing anglers to try earlier in the season.

Speaking with Dr Campbell at the Tweed Foundation, historically fishing on the upper river was very good in May.
 
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Dunbar

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Speaking with Dr Campbell at the Tweed Foundation, historically fishing on the upper river was very good in May.

Indeed it was then it petered out and the fishing went back into autumn dominated catch from about the 70s. I’m sure the seasonal runs will continue to ebb and flow and anglers will just have to adapt and change their habits. I first fished the Tweed in the early 80s and the autumn run was immense for many years, but the last 10 years have seen a sharp reduction in the autumn run with a corresponding switch to earlier running fish. The only thing about earlier running fish on the upper river is the need for water at what is becoming an increasingly dry period. I personally finish fishing now in our water at the end of October most years.


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marty31

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I am really against changing season times, hook sizes, spinning seasons, spinners, or any other method change someone dreams up, the old traditional season times, method/tackle restrictions have been tried and trusted for god knows how many years. proprietors themselves have a duty to do whats best for their beat, one beat at one end of the river, will be completely different to a beat at the other end, and in my experience beats that are catching fish, come under criticism from beats that are not, IMO their are far more problems that need addressed than squabbling about what other beats methods and catches are, normally the worst beats that complain, if scrutinized are doing worse themselves its time to lay right off method and season changes, this season has been encouragingly good, long may it last, its good news for a change, so leave things well alone, don't attempt to mend something that's already improving, so obviously not broken, the proprietors will look after their own asset, without intervention and interference from other beats stirring the pot.
 

keirstream

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I believe it is a dangerous road to follow by encouraging legislation to shift season times in any direction. The Dee was the last river to do so by initiating an extension and the fall out from that is still dropping year on year. It's much more difficult to change legislation once it has been enacted.
By all means, support decisions by proprietors to close their beats early if they feel that way inclined for whatever reason, indeed encourage it. This makes for a responsible signal to anyone scrutinising the ever changing run patterns.
I'm not particularly convinced the upper river ever had a true autumn run with fresh fish dominating in October and November, more like fish moving on upstream after lying in the Lower and Middle reaches for some time. Perhaps a sprinkling of fresh fish maybe?
I fished at Peebles during the late 70s and 80s in the Town water which was surprisingly good at the time and don't recall many even remotely silver fish among the fish we caught and others seen landed. Even when we walked up to watch the worthies sniggling the Manor Stream most of the fish getting ripped were spewing eggs and milt and the harpoon men were already up the Lyne and other burns chasing spawning fish in mid November.
That, I caveat by saying what I remember to be the case although I may be well off the mark. It would be nice to see some recent photos which would prove me wrong, I did fish U.C. for a few seasons with Mick Bell when Salad Dodger took over and again, can't remember anything fresh.
So, maybe encourage people to fish in late August and September and ease out of November?
I'm not advocating, just suggesting and I do agree with Marty that legislation should be left well alone.(y)
 

Horsbrugh

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I have to agree with Kierstream’s comments. While there have always been fresh fish running into the upper river in the Autumn, the majority have always been coloured. The chance or quantity of fresh fish has varied considerably over the years. Some years I have had practically no or very few few fresh fish at all. Others, there has been a mixture but never have the fresh fish been the majority. On the lower or middle beats that may well have been different, as they were getting a go at them when they actually entered the river right up to the end of November.

The upper river has always been very dependent on good water levels to encourage the fish to run. I have caught very fresh fish as early as July, long before this current swing towards Summer fish. I remember many years, when the main run of fish actually came through the upper river after the 30th November and the only fish that we were seeing was the very coloured old spring and summer stock. Even when I first started salmon fishing, many moons ago, there were some fish spawning in November. This is not something new. The old Springers and early running fish have always started spawning before the rest.

I think the biggest change has been in peoples attitude towards catching coloured fish. Some anglers, now sadly, tend to look down on coloured fish, as if they are in some way inferior to a fresh run fish. Obviously if you are intending to eat it, then that would certainly be the case but for anyone fishing just for sport, then I think a large coloured cock fish in full battle dress, is a thing of beauty and a perfectly acceptable quarry. It is also one that will fight like a demon and go back perfectly unharmed. The same can not always be said for a fish caught in the Summer, when the water is low and warm, with very low levels of dissolved oxygen. In these conditions, fish are very easily fatally stressed and in my opinion, should possibly not be fished for, on a C&R basis.

Tight lines to all still fishing, whether seeking an illusive silver tourist or a tartan warrior.
 

keirstream

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Obviously if you are intending to eat it, then that would certainly be the case but for anyone fishing just for sport, then I think a large coloured cock fish in full battle dress, is a thing of beauty and a perfectly acceptable quarry. It is also one that will fight like a demon and go back perfectly unharmed. The same can not always be said for a fish caught in the Summer, when the water is low and warm, with very low levels of dissolved oxygen. In these conditions, fish are very easily fatally stressed and in my opinion, should possibly not be fished for, on a C&R basis.

Not to put a fine point on it, but what you say about fish in high temperatures is also true of hens late in the season.
You can tell the difference instantly what you have hooked, the poor old hen swims about somewhat aimlessly and is clearly intent on conserving what energy it has. A cock, on the other hand, wants to take on all comers, including anglers, and some of the tussles can be spectacular.
However, you can't legislate what decides to take your fly unfortunately.:)
 

Horsbrugh

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Good days for Horsbrugh, (Friday), Upper Caberston and Holylee today, with a 30 pounder reported
Plenty fish in the upper river now. Still lots of availability on many of the upper beats too.?Popped up to see how the Crown water was doing this afternoon. Plenty fish and several caught up there too.
 

Lamson v10

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Plenty fish in the upper river now. Still lots of availability on many of the upper beats too.?Popped up to see how the Crown water was doing this afternoon. Plenty fish and several caught up there too.

Was good to get a blether with you today Kenny ??
 

Loxie

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What are peoples thoughts on a second beat deciding to close before the 30th November, Dryburgh Upper is closing at the end of this month and previously closed on the 14th November last year. Another beat on the upper river has been closing around 2 weeks earlier since 2018.

To encourage a healthy debate, please try not to use comments like "should close such and such a date" without giving your reason why.

There is now strong evidence that the river is in some form of transition with the main run coming late spring and summer and the marked decline in the autumn run along with earlier spawning.

I think it is far better for individual beats to decide when to close, rather than pushing for a legislation change for the entire river. My reason being, if the runs changed again it would be far more difficult to change the legislation to a later closing date.

My view is that when a salmon enters the river, it is to spawn, irrespective of it being sea-liced chrome or coloured in "tartan breeks," it is the river to spawn. I find the anglers argument that it is acceptable to catch silver fish and not coloured river fish completely hypercritical, with the exception of when a fish is killed for the table. In saying that, I have never killed a coloured fish and ate it so I can't say that is fully correct.

There is also the old chestnut of "pulling fish off the redds."It's 2020, nobody is going out with a "torch and a cleek" or throwing a Walkerburn Angel on the end of some piano wire over the backs of spawning salmon.

Anyone with any experience of the river and fishing legitimately, will tell you when fish are focused on spawning, it is almost impossible to catch them.

A counter argument, some fresh fish are still running, nowhere near what there used to be, but there are still some. Again anyone who knows the river, knows that when late running fish enters the river, they don't hang about and head straight to the upper reaches.

My personal view is that when a beat has a good number of clearly visible redds, they should serious consider closing. This would be to minimise any unintended risk of foul hooking a spawning fish and also it is quite often forgotten that it is an offence under the Freshwater Fisheries Act to knowingly disturb a redd. How you define knowingly disturb is anyone's guess.

Again a counter argument, that some beats close a section of their beat off to anglers. Is it fair to arrive at a beat to fish and be told not to fish certain sections?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

I don't think we should ever consider changing anything statutory: seasons methods cr etc.

I'm personally not that keen on fishing for stale fish but I'd probably rather that than not fishing. The thing is you can catch stale fish anytime for instance:



Anyone want to guess the date? Or:

17061ECD-968C-4B99-B39A-66C29735A3A1.jpeg
 
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