River Tees 2021

rawson

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WWC?
Having looked over the Barrage layout, I cannot for the life of me see how anyone came up with the design for such a narrow fish pass unless of course it was an after thought. Can the canoe slalom be used as a fish pass and the Archimedes screw be bye-passed?
I always wondered why they didn't make a 'feature' of the fish pass for visitor attractions. Not often I see canoes in the purpose built feature.
Man and his meddling's, just my ramblings.
 

Tees88

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WWC?
Having looked over the Barrage layout, I cannot for the life of me see how anyone came up with the design for such a narrow fish pass unless of course it was an after thought. Can the canoe slalom be used as a fish pass and the Archimedes screw be bye-passed?
I always wondered why they didn't make a 'feature' of the fish pass for visitor attractions. Not often I see canoes in the purpose built feature.
Man and his meddling's, just my ramblings.
WWC white water course = Canoe slalom.

There was a camera setup and a viewing window installed, but I'm not sure why they didn't make some of them. Possibly due to low numbers and/or lack of interest from staff.
 

teesfisher

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The viewing window was never opened to the public for two main reasons:
1 - it's in the basement of the North Pavilion which would create a while host of H&S issues of opened to the public,

2 - the Tees water is usually so peat stained that even though the fish pass is only 1m wide, you can never see anything through the window ( btw - it's not there anymore, but that's a different story). The cameras associated with the fish counter have enough trouble showing any meaningful images.
 

rawson

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I looked over the fish pass today, there is scope to widen it but it would take some creative civil engineering creating steps down towards the water level which would have to go out away from the bank into the river.
 

Ian Alex

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Reports of several good fish coming off the upper Tees in recent days.
I haven't been on the River Tees this year, it's good to see some results. A friend of mine managed to take some pictures of fish negotiating the falls on the Greta this week.
 

Andrew B

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WWC?
Having looked over the Barrage layout, I cannot for the life of me see how anyone came up with the design for such a narrow fish pass unless of course it was an after thought. Can the canoe slalom be used as a fish pass and the Archimedes screw be bye-passed?
I always wondered why they didn't make a 'feature' of the fish pass for visitor attractions. Not often I see canoes in the purpose built feature.
Man and his meddling's, just my ramblings.
I’m a big fan of fish passes when they done right as I’ve seen what a difference they can make on rivers that had impassible industrial weirs. I’m all for praising em when they get it right but I’ve seen some really expensive and utterly useless designs that you could would never work.
I’ve only seen the Tees Barrage on film but I’ve never been able to work out why they couldn’t ever get a grant together to undergo a major task, that could make such a difference for returning fish avoiding predation?

I had no idea until recently that Falkus maintained that salmon don’t/can’t jump obstacles at night as they need to be able to see where they heading? So as Teesfisher points out that the Tees has such a heavy peat stain? Then all the more need for a pass with an obvious route.
Some of those passes that just have a small passage at the side I’ve found them to be next to no good, with the fish still trying to batter their way up the middle in high water?
 

Grassy_Knollington

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From a history of Yarm first Pubcirca 1979

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CF034D44-4262-4325-9639-2BEC5E19F1F6.jpeg
 

Tees88

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Quite a read, will any of the suggested improvements take place? Lets hope so.
Yes, it really is. It really highlights all of the issues we have known about for some time, but obviously, they're independent of each side which helps the cause.

They've simply got to now, we had a meeting recently with the EA & CRT & it was widely accepted by everyone. The next step is to gather the funding and go for a multiple option approach to get the most effective passes for the Barrage. CRT wants their engineers to look into the proposals and do some calcs with regards to flooding & it would also have to meet the criteria set by the EAs fish pass panel to then grant it full approval (the fish pass at the barrage now has only ever had provisional approval). Both shouldn't be a problem. This would be a multiple team effort, due to the complexity & scale of the task, so it won't happen overnight, but it's critical that we get the best outcome rather than some half arsed effort. As we would just be back to square one and no one wants that.

As a side note, there will be changes happening to BS in the near future too.
 

Dalnashaugh

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Yes, it really is. It really highlights all of the issues we have known about for some time, but obviously, they're independent of each side which helps the cause.

They've simply got to now, we had a meeting recently with the EA & CRT & it was widely accepted by everyone. The next step is to gather the funding and go for a multiple option approach to get the most effective passes for the Barrage. CRT wants their engineers to look into the proposals and do some calcs with regards to flooding & it would also have to meet the criteria set by the EAs fish pass panel to then grant it full approval (the fish pass at the barrage now has only ever had provisional approval). Both shouldn't be a problem. This would be a multiple team effort, due to the complexity & scale of the task, so it won't happen overnight, but it's critical that we get the best outcome rather than some half arsed effort. As we would just be back to square one and no one wants that.

As a side note, there will be changes happening to BS in the near future too.
Thanks, much appreciated.
Is it too early to say, or is there even an approximate timescale for some/all of the recommendations to be implemented?
 

Grassy_Knollington

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Yes, it really is. It really highlights all of the issues we have known about for some time, but obviously, they're independent of each side which helps the cause.

They've simply got to now, we had a meeting recently with the EA & CRT & it was widely accepted by everyone. The next step is to gather the funding and go for a multiple option approach to get the most effective passes for the Barrage. CRT wants their engineers to look into the proposals and do some calcs with regards to flooding & it would also have to meet the criteria set by the EAs fish pass panel to then grant it full approval (the fish pass at the barrage now has only ever had provisional approval). Both shouldn't be a problem. This would be a multiple team effort, due to the complexity & scale of the task, so it won't happen overnight, but it's critical that we get the best outcome rather than some half arsed effort. As we would just be back to square one and no one wants that.

As a side note, there will be changes happening to BS in the near future too.

Interesting! Are you able to share any of those proposals?

I know BS used to be a really significant temperature barrier, but didn’t think it held the fish up in the same way since the changes. Not seen it for years though.
 

Tees88

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Interesting! Are you able to share any of those proposals?

I know BS used to be a really significant temperature barrier, but didn’t think it held the fish up in the same way since the changes. Not seen it for years though.
You will find the proposals in the Fishtek report I shared yesterday.

No, I don't think it's an issue for migratory fish, its smaller species can't pass it. It's been in the EAs plan for some time now, for an all fish - fish pass.
 

Dalnashaugh

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You will find the proposals in the Fishtek report I shared yesterday.

No, I don't think it's an issue for migratory fish, its smaller species can't pass it. It's been in the EAs plan for some time now, for an all fish - fish pass.
As I understand it, each year the local EA apply for money, from a relatively limited pot, to improve the fish passage situation at Broken Scar and each year something else crops up that is deemed to have priority. I can't see that scenario improving in the foreseeable future.
 

Tees88

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I'll re phrase the question! Is there any approx time scale for the obtaining of the necessary funding?

Cheers

Geoff
There has only been one meeting since the Fishtek report was completed. In which it was agreed that the recommendations need to be implemented. It's now down to the CRT to look for that money either internally or via funding. There is no time limit as such at present. However, all the answers are there in black and white now so all that is needed is the money.
As I understand it, each year the local EA apply for money, from a relatively limited pot, to improve the fish passage situation at Broken Scar and each year something else crops up that is deemed to have priority. I can't see that scenario improving in the foreseeable future.
That's correct, although I'm led to believe that is due to change & it is going to go ahead. I've not been involved in this myself, it's just what I've been told. I'm not sure if you've seen, but there were plans to put a hydro in at BS, which the EA had certain criteria for to make it fish friendly. This has since been canceled.
 
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meyre

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From The Express 25/10.....I guess you know this....but it's good to hear that Jacob Young MP is 'concerned' ...he voted against the Lords' amendment 20/10 against allowing water companies to continue dumping raw sewage in rivers and at sea.

"I have been along my usual walk from Marske to Saltburn and was utterly shocked and saddened to see in some parts, waist deep seaweed full of thousands of dead and alive crabs and lobsters, all kinds and species," said Mrs Bell, 48.

"I have never seen anything like this.

"My husband and I have spent hours putting as many live ones as we could back in the sea, something is very, very wrong here. This has been building up for a couple of weeks, along our coast and no-one is doing anything about it."

She has lived in the area for 21 years and, she says, has never seen anything like the scene there on Monday morning - even after a rough high tide or a storm.

A spokesman for the agency told Teesside Live on Monday they are considering whether a pollution incident might be to blame.

"We are working with partners at the Centre for Environment, Fisheries and Aquaculture and North Eastern Inshore Fisheries Conservation Authority to investigate why hundreds of dead crabs have washed up along the shore in the Tees Estuary and neighbouring beaches," said a spokesman for the Environment Agency.

“Samples of water, sediment, mussel and crab have been collected and are being sent to our labs for analysis, to consider whether a pollution incident could have contributed to the deaths of the animals. We have also shared samples with CEFAS labs for disease analysis."

Redcar MP Jacob Young said: "Deeply worrying that this seems to be continuing on our coastline.

"I have raised it with ministers and will continue to, until the cause is identified.

"My thanks to the Environment Agency and CEFAS for their investigations so far."

Redcar residents have also taken to social media to voice their concerns after images of the scene of the beach were posted on Monday morning.
 

Tees88

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The reply I got recently from my local MP about the on going sewage problems we have in our rivers, I'm sad that the bill got rejected, but this isn't the end.

Dear Mr **********,

Thank you for contacting me about sewage overflows.

These overflows were designed to be used during extreme weather to prevent sewers becoming overloaded with a combination of sewage and rainwater, releasing diluted wastewater into rivers rather than letting it back up into people’s homes. However, climate change has led to increased rainfall and water infrastructure has not kept pace with development growth over decades. I am therefore pleased that ministers have amended the Environment Bill to help crack down on the pollution in our rivers, waterways and coastlines, to better tackle the harm that overflows cause.

These new measures will tackle storm overflows including through a new requirement for water companies to monitor the water quality impacts of their sewage discharges and publish this information, with the Secretary of State being able to make regulations regarding the publication of this information. This monitoring will drive action by water companies to reduce sewage discharges that do the most harm, to better protect the environment and public health. I understand that water companies will also be required to publish near real-time information on when their storm overflows operate.

Further, the amendments will introduce a duty requiring the Government to produce a plan for the reduction of both storm overflows and their harm as well as a duty to publish a report considering the costs and benefits of eliminating overflows entirely which will inform decision-making in this area. Both of these actions are required before 1 September next year. Separately, ministers will undertake a review of legislation which would require Sustainable Drainage Systems to be constructed to ministerial standards on new developments, reducing the pressure on the sewage system. I know that this type of “blue-green” infrastructure can deliver a number of benefits - it can prevent water entering foul sewers, reduce surface flooding, improve biodiversity and improve associated carbon emissions.

More widely, I am encouraged that between 2020 and 2025, water companies will invest £3.1 billion in storm overflow improvements to reduce sewage discharges to our waters. This includes £1.9bn investment on the Thames Tideway Tunnel super sewer, as well as £1.2bn of other investment throughout England. £144m of this is new, additional investment as a result of a call to action from the Storm Overflows Taskforce.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact me.

Kind regards,

Matt


Matt Vickers MP - Member of Parliament for Stockton South
 

meyre

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Matt, Yes thank you

So many words from kindly Mr Vickers.
We have known ,as he has known, about and welcomed the Thames Tideway project for some 10 yrs. A further 1.2 bln£ 'investment' throughout England...The EA's environmental Report 2020 ( updated July 2021 ) mentions £1.9 bln...but these are butterfly numbers which flit from document to news-caste and never seem to land. They are also insufficient and improvements are not consistent with the vast income and disbursement of our Water Companies.
In reading the above mentioned EA doc. which seeks to find an optimistic tone, it is evident that we have not improved in the last 10 years and the hoped for clean revolution of the 2000's has slipped back.
County, council, regional and devolved boundaries collude with EA,NRW,EA,SEPA,NE and perhaps a few other underfunded acronyms to provide a boggy and difficult terrain from which to manage and control the 32 privately owned water companies . These companies owe at least as much loyalty to their investors and shareholders...your pension company perhaps.... as they do to the consumer standing in his shower or her river.
Without firm direction and an ESG driven investors' approach these companies can ignore all complaints and the work of charities and pressure groups like the Angling Trust or Clean Rivers Trust
ONLY dedicated Government legislation, which by law enforces action to provide clean water in pipe, watercourses at coastal outflow , will change the astonishingly poor quality of our waters.
It is time the Government got over thumbing its nose at the EU Water-framework Directive and took back control of a very delicate and finite British resource; our fresh and coastal waters. The Government must stop kowtowing to the water Companies and farmers for fear of alienating financial supporters and rural voters. They are there to be led by just and logical laws which are common to all for the commons' good.
 

Stivy

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Hi Geoff / Chris,
I haven't been on here for a while but we haven't been idle.
We had another meeting with C&RT and EA today at the Barrage. I took our legal representative who is working with us on this project.

I have to say that everyone in the room was positive and it seemed that we all wanted the same thing. It hasn't always felt like that.
We asked for an update and they gave this which I will briefly outline below. I asked C&RT and EA if I was ok to quote them and they said yes.

We agreed the chosen option will be to proceed with the fish pass in gate 1 !!! A proper, well designed, fit for purpose fish pass. So no cheap sticky plaster solution!

The next step is to get approval that this won't increase the risk of flooding. This is the next step and it won't be straightforward. We were told that it had been indicated that the installation of the fish pass will increase the flood risk by 50mm. It was unknown what the effect of this 50mm would be in practical terms. However we challenged the logic behind this 50mm figure as it didn't make sense to us. It is going to be looked into and explained more fully (if they can). Current policy is that projects cannot increase flood risk so there is a bit of work to do on this.

We were told that we could expect the fish pass to be installed by 2024. I double-checked this and the EA confirmed that this is a valid date that could be quoted.
This date depends on C&RT securing the funding but it is expected that they will be able to do this.

So hopefully after many years, we are closer to getting a fish pass than we have ever been. Both C&RT and EA were really pleased with this progress and they feel that we are on the brink of getting the badly needed fish pass.

Now I have been at odds with C&RT and EA over the years but today I came to appreciate the work they have put in. I fully expect some negative comments on here about these organisations and the time it has taken but I think now is a time to feel good and optimistic for the future. I also think the local individuals concerned have done really well with this achievement and they have constantly been slowed down by bureaucracy, politics and resistance further up in their respective organisations.
In particular the two guys from the EA have been brilliant over the years and I know they are both personally thrilled to get to this point. They want it as much as we do.

I am just giving a summary from today. Please accept it for what it is. Nothing is certain in this world so please be aware that things could change and there could be delays. Don't shoot the messenger but I wanted to make sure everyone became aware of developments and had some hope for the future.

Cheers,
 
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