River Leven/loch Lomond 2021

silver salmon

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Jesuses wept were not the only people who had a hatchery that did fin clipping and DNA sampling isn't costly but it does end the myth.
I caught years ago in the estuary a good seatrout of 4lb this had green pan jet dye on it flank no one near the Clyde system that I have heard of marks their fish thus, so where did it come from, and were not paying 25k a year we haven't been paying any notable sums to the LLFT for years which is why they are getting their own funding.
I'm not in disagreement with planting out existing stock in burns to parts which are devoid but to show it A: works and B: improves it needs to be monitored properly and over a period of time possible five years or more you won't get an instant abundance of salmon returning that my dear friend costs millions we don't have, if both parties work together and put forward a programme of improvements put it on their web pages for all and sundry can see it i'm all for it.

The Luss water has seatrout running it and it was never a salmon river they allowed members to fish it as long as they recorded what they caught and saw, this collapsed due to sheep dip.

You won't get fish like we had in the 90's salmon are declining all over the world and there is little we can do to stop this, climate change will stress the fish out, hence all the tree planting on exposed burns to give cover and reduce temperature, spawning is getting later and the really cold weather were not getting in November & December, this must also have an impact too.

there are fewer redds being cut on the Endrick is that down to late runs or reduced numbers not entirely sure., but it doesn't help.
Yes Gus, I can believe one or two fin clipped salmon could have been lost fish from another system---but do you really think its likely that 11 or 13 fin clipped salmon from another system lost their way and ended up in the loch lomond system. If that were the case we should be catching them each season, and I haven't seen any reports or photos of any fin clipped salmon since we stopped our stocking improvement program.

As I said previously, The Luss should have recovered by now if the collapse is due to that one recorded sheep dip episode during the eighties. The sampling project has indicated that the river has very good quality bove the sewerage plant outflow and should support salmonids

The Luss did have a run of salmon. I know this because I caught plenty of them before 1983. I think I may be able to dig out the photos. Have you seen sea trout in the Luss recently or have other evidence of them? I thought it might be extinct because whenever I have taken a walk up there during September recently, I haven't seen any. Some years ago, a survey carried out and passed onto the trust reported little evidence of migratory fish in the Luss. That was around the time Luss Estate was considering a micro hydro generation project. However, it would reassuring and great if the sea trout have returned to the Luss.

Also, I didn't know that we have stopped funding £20K towards the postgraduate from SCENE. I though our funding was £20K each year for the duration of the project. It would be helpful if the members were kept up to date by providing regular information and contact with the members, so I apologise if my information is incorrect. I am only trying to suggest ways in which we might enhance the stock.
All the best
 

silver salmon

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If you completely stripped the system of breeding fish and brought all the eggs into a hatchery, raised them all to smolts, fin clipped them and released them, year after year, then all your fish caught by anglers would be fin clipped. Would that make the hatchery a success?
I am not suggesting that we take all the fish and put them in a hatchery. I am suggesting that we take a few fish from a lomond river that has enough returners and bring on ova and fry in order to kick start the streams that were reported to be devoid of migratory fish. I understand the argument that just taking brood fish from a river that has a healthy fish stock, won't necessarily enhance the stock of that river, but we could re-establish a run of fish into a stream that is devoid and where a previous run is now extinct.
 

Fruin

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I am not suggesting that we take all the fish and put them in a hatchery. I am suggesting that we take a few fish from a lomond river that has enough returners and bring on ova and fry in order to kick start the streams that were reported to be devoid of migratory fish. I understand the argument that just taking brood fish from a river that has a healthy fish stock, won't necessarily enhance the stock of that river, but we could re-establish a run of fish into a stream that is devoid and where a previous run is now extinct.
Without understanding why it is devoid of fish? Would that not be a dangerous tactic that you could be depleting the system stock on an experiment that may provide you with even less stock. What if that tributary had issues meaning that it would never again be a decent habitat. I guess that is where the science that everybody shouts about comes in.

If it was indeed great habitat it would populate again naturally. You only have to look at the Clyde and other rivers that were previously devoid of salmon that now have probably greater numbers than the Lomond system, most of which were naturally populated without hatcheries, as soon as they became good enough habitat.

Like I said previously, I am firmly on the fence with hatcheries. I disagree with "playing" with them. I agree that they can increase runs significantly when backed by good science, lots of finance and are in addition to natural stocks, not at the expense of them.
 

highlander gus

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That is easier said than done as far as i am aware there has 3 calls for an EGM and all have been ignored with excuses like " not worded correctly" "not handed in in the right timescale" and so on.
And at the last AGM we actually had Dick Dickson stood up and said the only way we could address the subject of Peters (illegal banning) would be to hold and EGM on that subject, but as usual it has been ignored by the committee.

The AGM was recorded and was available on youtube until one the members of the committee (either the current committee or the previous committee) went on whining to youtube and got it taken down.

The video can still be made available so there is no hiding from what was said or was not said on the night....there will be no dodgy "recollections" this time.
It wasn’t the previous committee i can assure you as it happended during the current Committee’s tenure 🙄 like i said the Secretary has no authority to refuse a call for an EGM if served correctly and all that is needed is 10 members to serve it by referring to the clause in the constitution and send it in for the Secretary of the LLAIA ‘s attention to willfully with hold a call for an egm by the members is a breach in legality, it is not for the Committee or the Secretary to decide on whether it is right or not, i would akso make copies of the letters snd have one spoks man send these recorded delivery to the secretary thus he will have to sign for them, then if nothing heard back with in 7 days look to instruct a lawyer to serve notice on then LLAIA.
if you have copies of the letters sent post them 🤔although the web organisers may not let you then we can see if they have any validity or not.
 

silver salmon

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Without understanding why it is devoid of fish? Would that not be a dangerous tactic that you could be depleting the system stock on an experiment that may provide you with even less stock. What if that tributary had issues meaning that it would never again be a decent habitat. I guess that is where the science that everybody shouts about comes in.

If it was indeed great habitat it would populate again naturally. You only have to look at the Clyde and other rivers that were previously devoid of salmon that now have probably greater numbers than the Lomond system, most of which were naturally populated without hatcheries, as soon as they became good enough habitat.

Like I said previously, I am firmly on the fence with hatcheries. I disagree with "playing" with them. I agree that they can increase runs significantly when backed by good science, lots of finance and are in addition to natural stocks, not at the expense of them.
I agree Fruin, thats why I previously stated that we need to monitor the sewerage plant pipe that discharges into the Luss Water and re-establish the invertebrate sampling near that area. We could also apply to Scottish Water under FOI to reassure ourselves that there are no regular pollution events caused from the plant. I meant that we should undertake this before stocking the river
However , Highlander Gus has stated that sea trout are running the Luss Water and if we can confirm this, it might not be necessary to stock this tributary. The Luss Water was surveyed for salmonids several years ago and the report sent to the Trust. The report identified little evidence of migratory fish populations, hence, why I suggested restocking, but only after we identify the reasons for the sea trout demise in this river.
 

Rosslinden0

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If you walk the path from luss village up around the quarry you'll see plenty of parr hiding in the deep holes behind the bridge legs so clearly some spawning takes place in the river. It also has an old fish counter at the weir, I've emailed Luss estates about the counter before and got no reply from them but surely it should be looked into getting it back operational.
 

K MacC

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Well, it's been very interesting reading your comments on how you guys are going to improve the system once you are all elected onto the LLAIA committee. I only wish you the best of luck, you will stop funding the LLFT £23,000 per year start a big massive hatchery and dramatically increase the salmon population on the system. Is there anything else that you members want to improve? You should be able to build a fantastic facility with your £23,000 saved!
 

highlander gus

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Yes Gus, I can believe one or two fin clipped salmon could have been lost fish from another system---but do you really think its likely that 11 or 13 fin clipped salmon from another system lost their way and ended up in the loch lomond system. If that were the case we should be catching them each season, and I haven't seen any reports or photos of any fin clipped salmon since we stopped our stocking improvement program.

As I said previously, The Luss should have recovered by now if the collapse is due to that one recorded sheep dip episode during the eighties. The sampling project has indicated that the river has very good quality bove the sewerage plant outflow and should support salmonids

The Luss did have a run of salmon. I know this because I caught plenty of them before 1983. I think I may be able to dig out the photos. Have you seen sea trout in the Luss recently or have other evidence of them? I thought it might be extinct because whenever I have taken a walk up there during September recently, I haven't seen any. Some years ago, a survey carried out and passed onto the trust reported little evidence of migratory fish in the Luss. That was around the time Luss Estate was considering a micro hydro generation project. However, it would reassuring and great if the sea trout have returned to the Luss.

Also, I didn't know that we have stopped funding £20K towards the postgraduate from SCENE. I though our funding was £20K each year for the duration of the project. It would be helpful if the members were kept up to date by providing regular information and contact with the members, so I apologise if my information is incorrect. I am only trying to suggest ways in which we might enhance the stock.
All the best
I think that funding was a one of and nothing has been done since, that any one is aware of, with regards to the sewage on the Luss water that is probably the reason, the blane above where they had a sewage spillage there still isn’t any fish spawning so there might be a similar problem there also but difficult to say however there is a fair chance that the LLFT have surveyed it so i’ll ask And see what they say.
keeping the members abreast of things is the one thing they certainly don’t do, i put that down to a lack of outward thinking thry keep blaming anglers for not reporting catches which is a fair point however they have two Bailiffs who can ask, and like a lot of anglers i tend not to post catches or say if the fishings good.. why you ask… peace less anglers running down to the Renton to disturb us 😂😂
i’m hopping this season i get a bit more time on the river this year but looking at work that might be a bit of a hope still well see how it goes.
it would be good although i suspect the Committee will go into hiding this year and another AGM will by pass us.
obviously they haven’t heard of zoom or teams 🙄 the on line meeting place although getting to read the minutes would be fun Secretary can you share your screen 😱 to say it would disadvantage members who have no it is ******** we barely fill the hall as it is.
but nothing changes
 

highlander gus

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If you walk the path from luss village up around the quarry you'll see plenty of parr hiding in the deep holes behind the bridge legs so clearly some spawning takes place in the river. It also has an old fish counter at the weir, I've emailed Luss estates about the counter before and got no reply from them but surely it should be looked into getting it back operational.
Ross it might cost more than it’s worth but the fact you see parr & fry in the lower part kinda confirms that the sewage must be stopping the spawning above, but not necessarily for reasons you might think, what they found on the Blane spawning and invertibae life from the sewage downwards was excellent above pretty devoid of any life.
 
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highlander gus

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I am not suggesting that we take all the fish and put them in a hatchery. I am suggesting that we take a few fish from a lomond river that has enough returners and bring on ova and fry in order to kick start the streams that were reported to be devoid of migratory fish. I understand the argument that just taking brood fish from a river that has a healthy fish stock, won't necessarily enhance the stock of that river, but we could re-establish a run of fish into a stream that is devoid and where a previous run is now extinct.
There problem with that is we don’t have any of the tributaries producing enough returning fish, and taking them from other tributaries does not help it wipes out the stocks from these areas, however there must be ways of kick starting a revival, however it needs proper data to prove conclusively it is working and not the hearsay of previous attempts.
not wanting to upset the hatchery chaps but despite your assertions the stocks continued to dwindle during this great revival and these were the last throws of the dice for Michael’s tenure, due to the posts, funny how Peter bemoans lack of voice and yet blow me he was the same one who shut up Robbie Red Balls site and banned full members and ordinary members for having the voracity to say the plan was flawed 🤔 i do wish i kept a screen shot of his rant that the Renton anglers were all scum but such is life, to which i add i’m proud to be a Renton angler 🥳 some of the best down to earth fishermen you could fish with 😂you’d never get a big head and Peter Jordan saying to all thier name was on his end of season trophy for being the worst angler of the season and the last day’s drinks 🥃here’s to those past and present may yer reels scream and days be filled with joy
 

Fly-Only

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There problem with that is we don’t have any of the tributaries producing enough returning fish, and taking them from other tributaries does not help it wipes out the stocks from these areas, however there must be ways of kick starting a revival, however it needs proper data to prove conclusively it is working and not the hearsay of previous attempts.
not wanting to upset the hatchery chaps but despite your assertions the stocks continued to dwindle during this great revival and these were the last throws of the dice for Michael’s tenure, due to the posts, funny how Peter bemoans lack of voice and yet blow me he was the same one who shut up Robbie Red Balls site and banned full members and ordinary members for having the voracity to say the plan was flawed 🤔 i do wish i kept a screen shot of his rant that the Renton anglers were all scum but such is life, to which i add i’m proud to be a Renton angler 🥳 some of the best down to earth fishermen you could fish with 😂you’d never get a big head and Peter Jordan saying to all thier name was on his end of season trophy for being the worst angler of the season and the last day’s drinks 🥃here’s to those past and present may yer reels scream and days be filled with joy

I fished the Leven from 1993 to 2000 most weeks and got to know the guys down there big Peter included. I left to fish the Clyde as it is on my doorstep but this season I am going back to the Leven.
Myself and my mate went back to the Leven for a day last May and totally loved it, we even met guys we knew from 20 years ago heh fishing the same bit as before

Anyway I’m looking forward to fishing it again this season and getting to know the new guys.

Cheers
 

silver salmon

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If you walk the path from luss village up around the quarry you'll see plenty of parr hiding in the deep holes behind the bridge legs so clearly some spawning takes place in the river. It also has an old fish counter at the weir, I've emailed Luss estates about the counter before and got no reply from them but surely it should be looked into getting it back operational.
Good idea re' the fish counter Ross. The Luss used to be a fabulous sea trout river until the sewage plant was built in 1983. As you know the original hatchery was sited there since Henry Lamonds time and who's grave is in Luss cemetery---you can here him turning in it as you walk past--;)
The old BAWS site used to have an terrific excerpt from Lamonds book (I think) that describes a day catching sea trout and salmon from a secret river that is thought to be the Luss Water. Back in the seventies and early eighties it was full of sea trout and salmon. They ran the river in big numbers from May till the end of the season. Then the run collapsed following 1983 after the sewage plant was built and the discharge was directed into the Lower Luss Water.
From my diary--during the 1981 season, I had 81 sea trout from the Luss Water (half returned even back then) and three grilse. Two years later in 1984 I caught 9 sea trout for the same effort and I fished the Luss for a few years more until my catches diminished and I only recorded 3 sea trout during1989. The writing was on the wall and I stuck to the Loch instead of wasting my time on the Luss. The upper river has great spawning potential if the sea trout run can be enhanced after any potential pollution issues or obstructions are identified and removed.
 

Rosslinden0

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Ross it might cost more than it’s worth but the fact you see parr & fry in the lower part kinda confirms that the sewage must be stopping the spawning above, but not necessarily for reasons you might think, what they found on the Blane spawning and invertibae life from the sewage downwards was excellent above pretty devoid of any life.
The bridges are all above the sewage works, the sewage pipe entering the river is only like 100-200m from the mouth of the river so I don't know why its being brought up tbh
 

silver salmon

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There problem with that is we don’t have any of the tributaries producing enough returning fish, and taking them from other tributaries does not help it wipes out the stocks from these areas, however there must be ways of kick starting a revival, however it needs proper data to prove conclusively it is working and not the hearsay of previous attempts.
not wanting to upset the hatchery chaps but despite your assertions the stocks continued to dwindle during this great revival and these were the last throws of the dice for Michael’s tenure, due to the posts, funny how Peter bemoans lack of voice and yet blow me he was the same one who shut up Robbie Red Balls site and banned full members and ordinary members for having the voracity to say the plan was flawed 🤔 i do wish i kept a screen shot of his rant that the Renton anglers were all scum but such is life, to which i add i’m proud to be a Renton angler 🥳 some of the best down to earth fishermen you could fish with 😂you’d never get a big head and Peter Jordan saying to all thier name was on his end of season trophy for being the worst angler of the season and the last day’s drinks 🥃here’s to those past and present may yer reels scream and days be filled with joy
Hi Gus, I assume that your catches from the Leven appear to show that stocks were dwindling during the hears when stocking took place. Interestingly my catches from the Loch during this period shows the opposite trend.
For example my average catch of sea trout per visit to lomond shows a steady increase from 2009 and peaking in 2012 then dropping off to zero last year

I.e. year average catch of flycaught sea trout per trip from loch

2009 0.6 ST/trip
2010 1.0 ST/ trip
2011 1.1 ST/trip
2012 1.4 ST/ trip
2013 1.0 ST/trip
2014 1.05 ST/ trip
2016 1.0 ST/trip
2018 0.4 ST/ trip
2019 0.2 ST/trip
2020 0.4 ST/ trip
2021 0.0 ST/ trip
2022 ?
My fishing effort varied from 15 outings to 33 outings and this was factored into my average catch calculation.
I.e. total ST catch per season divided by number of days fishing the loch

My average catch results above show a steady increase in sea trout during the years when the system was stocked with sea trout and then diminishing after the stock improvement programme was closed down. I was told by some of the then committee that sea trout were stocked as well as salmon and I witnessed our brood sea trout in tanks at Mr Gibbs hatchery near Corpach when I was present helping to fin clip. I only replicated my sea trout catch data to demonstrate that the sea trout stock did not appear to be diminishing on Loch Lomond from what I observed during the stock improvement years, although the catch returns from the Leven may have shown otherwise. All of the loch sea trout anglers that I know would concur. I can't comment on salmon stocks
The bridges are all above the sewage works, the sewage pipe entering the river is only like 100-200m from the mouth of the river so I don't know why its being brought up tbh
I raised it because I wondered if it was possible that pollution from the discharge pipe was deoxygenating the river water and thus preventing fish from running upstream and reducing the once prolific spawning stream to one that had very few migratory fish in it as identified by the Survey carried out several years ago. However both you and Gus have since informed me that there is nothing to be concerned about as you have observed plenty of sea trout and parr in the river--'case closed
 

K MacC

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There problem with that is we don’t have any of the tributaries producing enough returning fish, and taking them from other tributaries does not help it wipes out the stocks from these areas, however there must be ways of kick starting a revival, however it needs proper data to prove conclusively it is working and not the hearsay of previous attempts.
not wanting to upset the hatchery chaps but despite your assertions the stocks continued to dwindle during this great revival and these were the last throws of the dice for Michael’s tenure, due to the posts, funny how Peter bemoans lack of voice and yet blow me he was the same one who shut up Robbie Red Balls site and banned full members and ordinary members for having the voracity to say the plan was flawed 🤔 i do wish i kept a screen shot of his rant that the Renton anglers were all scum but such is life, to which i add i’m proud to be a Renton angler 🥳 some of the best down to earth fishermen you could fish with 😂you’d never get a big head and Peter Jordan saying to all thier name was on his end of season trophy for being the worst angler of the season and the last day’s drinks 🥃here’s to those past and present may yer reels scream and days be filled with joy
Some of us have it archived, just incase! It's all on an old hard drive somewhere!
 

silver salmon

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If you walk the path from luss village up around the quarry you'll see plenty of parr hiding in the deep holes behind the bridge legs so clearly some spawning takes place in the river. It also has an old fish counter at the weir, I've emailed Luss estates about the counter before and got no reply from them but surely it should be looked into getting it back operational.
Hi Ross, since you emailed Luss estates regarding fish counters, you might be interested in the publication from the "Wild park 2020" that the LLFT have a "Luss Water Sea trout recovery programme" start date 2012, finish date 2017. Updated 2020 as not started. A Recomendation of the project lead investigators LLFT is that fish counters are installed on the Luss Water. There are some other interesting projects listed in this document around page 91---worth a look if you haven't already read it.
 

highlander gus

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I fished the Leven from 1993 to 2000 most weeks and got to know the guys down there big Peter included. I left to fish the Clyde as it is on my doorstep but this season I am going back to the Leven.
Myself and my mate went back to the Leven for a day last May and totally loved it, we even met guys we knew from 20 years ago heh fishing the same bit as before

Anyway I’m looking forward to fishing it again this season and getting to know the new guys.

Cheers
😂😂we call them herons tight lines for this season to you
 

Inch Fad

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Glad that you dI’d 👍. Robbie’s site had a huge set of helpful information for Anglers. Particularly on the Leven, but all also all parts of the Lomond system in general.
Others I know have archived Robbie’s site, including the threats of extreme violence against some of the committee members at that time.
THAT WAS THE REASON IT WAS SHUT DOWN.
Peters opposition to the current committee is quite vehement (in my mind rightly so) but nowhere does he offer physical violence against anyone.

Some of us have it archived, just incase! It's all on an old hard drive somewhere!
 

highlander gus

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Glad that you dI’d 👍. Robbie’s site had a huge set of helpful information for Anglers. Particularly on the Leven, but all also all parts of the Lomond system in general.
Others I know have archived Robbie’s site, including the threats of extreme violence against some of the committee members at that time.
THAT WAS THE REASON IT WAS SHUT DOWN.
Peters opposition to the current committee is quite vehement (in my mind rightly so) but nowhere does he offer physical violence against anyone.
Well i used to be on Robbies site and i never saw actual treats of violance there was criticism of the Committee and it was that that started the hatchery as a means to show anglers they were doing something, but there was never any proof what they were doing was actually increasing retuning numbers and not just the slow nstural decline in numbers as we al know some seasons are better than others.
it was shut down by the Committee of the LLAIA with legal threats to Robbie personally along with handing out bans to full members and two associate members for typing that the red camera was a waste money the planting out of the fry above impassable falls was all a bit pointless if there is no way for them to then get back up, with the Douglas it had fish spawning below the falls as it was, then the final throw of the dice was the smolt farming.
at the end of the day it is currently illegal to run a hatchery without permission if your so hatchery orientated get a Committee together to run the LLAIA and give the ordinary members a proper proposal on how you intend to fund run and manage the data fir the hatchery to show it is working and not detrimental to existing stocks, just showing pictures of the boys planting out the fry isn’t realy going to cut it in the 20th century i wish you luck as i think you might be trying to push a rock up a mountain, and the other point any legal disputes will be bourn by the individuals and not the LLAIA members were not here to fund pet projects.
now as the new fishing season is closing in can we now drop all this and get back to what we enjoy the most and that's fishing tight lines every one on the Lomond system for the coming season Only 25 sleeps till the day 😂😂
 

silver salmon

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Hi Folks, I have previously explained and demonstrated by showing my recorded records how my catches of sea trout from Loch Lomond have diminished to zero last year and since we stopped stocking. What would be interesting would be if other llaia members who fish the loch would use their catch data over the period 2009- 2021 to demonstrate an opposite trend, I.e. that the catches increased since the stocking policy was ditched.--what say you ?
 

Rosslinden0

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Hi Folks, I have previously explained and demonstrated by showing my recorded records how my catches of sea trout from Loch Lomond have diminished to zero last year and since we stopped stocking. What would be interesting would be if other llaia members who fish the loch would use their catch data over the period 2009- 2021 to demonstrate an opposite trend, I.e. that the catches increased since the stocking policy was ditched.--what say you ?
Could it be perhaps you just need to find new areas to fish in the loch because if you fish down the estuary its full of sea trout, maybe the old faithful spots everyone keeps fishing just aren't holding fish for some reason now.
I didn't catch many sea trout in the river last year but ones I did catch were nice ones and lost one about 5lb, also seen a few small shoals of <1lb ones during the summer
 

silver salmon

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Well i used to be on Robbies site and i never saw actual treats of violance there was criticism of the Committee and it was that that started the hatchery as a means to show anglers they were doing something, but there was never any proof what they were doing was actually increasing retuning numbers and not just the slow nstural decline in numbers as we al know some seasons are better than others.
it was shut down by the Committee of the LLAIA with legal threats to Robbie personally along with handing out bans to full members and two associate members for typing that the red camera was a waste money the planting out of the fry above impassable falls was all a bit pointless if there is no way for them to then get back up, with the Douglas it had fish spawning below the falls as it was, then the final throw of the dice was the smolt farming.
at the end of the day it is currently illegal to run a hatchery without permission if your so hatchery orientated get a Committee together to run the LLAIA and give the ordinary members a proper proposal on how you intend to fund run and manage the data fir the hatchery to show it is working and not detrimental to existing stocks, just showing pictures of the boys planting out the fry isn’t realy going to cut it in the 20th century i wish you luck as i think you might be trying to push a rock up a mountain, and the other point any legal disputes will be bourn by the individuals and not the LLAIA members were not here to fund pet projects.
now as the new fishing season is closing in can we now drop all this and get back to what we enjoy the most and that's fishing tight lines every one on the Lomond system for the coming season Only 25 sleeps till the day 😂😂
Hi Gus, do you or Ross or Kevin have any suggestions to improve the stock of Migratory fish for the Loch lomond angling IMPROVEMENT association? Let's hear some positive suggestions please and stop digging up old negatives. We should all work together to remove obstacles and work together .
 

silver salmon

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Could it be perhaps you just need to find new areas to fish in the loch because if you fish down the estuary its full of sea trout, maybe the old faithful spots everyone keeps fishing just aren't holding fish for some reason now.
I didn't catch many sea trout in the river last year but ones I did catch were nice ones and lost one about 5lb, also seen a few small shoals of <1lb ones during the summer
Hi Ross, you didn't answer my question. And although you didn't fish the loch. Do your stats show an increasing trend in sea trout or sal.on stock?
 

silver salmon

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Could it be perhaps you just need to find new areas to fish in the loch because if you fish down the estuary its full of sea trout, maybe the old faithful spots everyone keeps fishing just aren't holding fish for some reason now.
I didn't catch many sea trout in the river last year but ones I did catch were nice ones and lost one about 5lb, also seen a few small shoals of <1lb ones during the summer
I have been fishing the loch for 40 years and although it would take more than a lifetime, I l know it and the runs of sea trout pretty well in all water heights. Sea trout runs are decreasing in the loch. Maybe the fish you are seeing in the estuary are running up the Clyde due to Scottish Waters barrage operation regime?
 
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