RIO SCANDI's etc.,

Geordieboy

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Morning all,

So then, still new to this game of Salar hunting, I've been out and bought everything and more to catch the sneaky silver buggers.
When it comes to lines and matching them to rods, this forum has been great.

I can now cast with a fair degree of competency, my Rio Scandi versitips. I have them for all my rods. On the SAGE Method 14ft 9wt, the 10 line was a godsend up on the SPEY in a 30mph north wind. Awful conditions, but I could punch it across the river.

I also have 2 AFS lines. I tried the 8/9 on my SAGE ONE 8wt as I didn't have much bank or undergrowth where I was fishing. I couldn't get 15yds. My casting is to blame of course, but it was most frustrating.

Is this line supposed to be used with Airbourne anchors like on the Single Spey cast?

I was using Double Spey where needed on 1 bank and Snap T's with 5ft -12ft tips on my Versitips and I could cover the river (in the main) quite well.

I suppose where I am going with this, is where do you fish with a RIO AFS? How do you cast it? And what about the Rio Scandi lines?

More Learning needed here I know. I did have a casting lesson by an APGAI instructor and that all made so much sense. I may however have learned how to only cast 1 line though......
 

chriswjx

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I was taught on AFS heads and single spey fine with them (was taught on AFS heads because I could only get lessons on the Upper Tweed at the time, so a spey line wasn't going to work)

I've found you need to let them settle down a bit before you swing round. I usually give it a lift, pause, swing, up into the key position, breathe out, cast. When I first started trying, without that brief pause after the lift (can just be a second) that lets the line drop just enough that you don't end up blowing off the anchor. It has meant that now trying to learn to use a spey line, I end up planting the anchor in front of me as I forget not to deliberately pause.
 

Grassy_Knollington

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Morning all,

So then, still new to this game of Salar hunting, I've been out and bought everything and more to catch the sneaky silver buggers.
When it comes to lines and matching them to rods, this forum has been great.

I can now cast with a fair degree of competency, my Rio Scandi versitips. I have them for all my rods. On the SAGE Method 14ft 9wt, the 10 line was a godsend up on the SPEY in a 30mph north wind. Awful conditions, but I could punch it across the river.

I also have 2 AFS lines. I tried the 8/9 on my SAGE ONE 8wt as I didn't have much bank or undergrowth where I was fishing. I couldn't get 15yds. My casting is to blame of course, but it was most frustrating.

Is this line supposed to be used with Airbourne anchors like on the Single Spey cast?

I was using Double Spey where needed on 1 bank and Snap T's with 5ft -12ft tips on my Versitips and I could cover the river (in the main) quite well.

I suppose where I am going with this, is where do you fish with a RIO AFS? How do you cast it? And what about the Rio Scandi lines?

More Learning needed here I know. I did have a casting lesson by an APGAI instructor and that all made so much sense. I may however have learned how to only cast 1 line though......

I fish a 6/7, 7/8 and 9/10 AFS on a variety of rods. The AFS is a nice shooting head, but it is a bit longer and more evenly weighted than some of the more ‘modern shooting heads. The Scandi Versitip is quite a bit more ‘punchy’ by all accounts, with more weight close to the rod - this would help the Versitip load the rod with less line out than the AFS.

The principles of casting the AFS are just the same as any other line. Typically a sustained anchor cast will have a bit less energy than a single Spey or snake roll and it can be slightly harder to load the rod, especially if your line is on the light side for the rod.

It sounds like you are struggling to load your rod effectively with the 8/9 AFS. This could be for a number of reasons. Think back to what the instructor said, slow everything down and spend a bit of time casting with just the head and maybe a couple of yards of running line. Concentrate on getting enough line in the top of your d loop to load the rod and see how it goes from there.

Of course sometimes you just have a bad day and that’s that. After banging out the Gaelforce Spey line from the Method on Tuesday, I went back on Weds to repeat the practice. For some reason, I just wasn’t with it that second night. My casting started badly and just got worse. It happens.

If you simply cannot your line to work, go to the instructor with that set up and if that’s not an option, try a heavier line. Rio recommend up to a 9 weight Versitip (585grains)
 

HMarquis

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The AFS has a much finer taper than the Scandi and it is therefore more difficult to turn over heavier tips and flies. If you are fishing smaller stuff and want more delicate presentation the AFS is better.

I'm pretty sure the versi tip (with a scandi body) is about 30 ft so adding a tip to it takes it to 40ft which is the length of an AFS before you add any poly.

So there are 3 different lines, AFS (40ft) Scandi (40 ft head with fatter taper for easier loading of rod) and scandi versi tip (short head plus tips to make 40ft line)
 

budge

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Might be worth experimenting with the amount of overhang out of the tip ring. Some lines cast easier with hardly any running line outside the tip. If you have a slow casting style the D loop can collapse and unload the rod before you make the forward stroke.

Sent from my CPH2127 using Tapatalk
 

rotenone

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I am amazed that any reputable teacher would start or recommend a short shooting head to learn with or teach with.

Without sounding clever makes sure you have the afs on the right way round, if you can cast other lines the afs will be n0 problem at all, alot of modern fast rods work better when over lined with beginners.
Firstly often the rods are not correctly rated to start with and a begginer like yourself will not be used casting of the tip of a fast action rod.

If you get a line on it that loads your rod deeper and slows it down a touch you will get better feedback im sure
 

phil.b

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Yeah check to make sure you have it round the right way like rotenone says ,I would go as far to say that the Afs is the best floating shooting head I have fished with and I have tried most,with gaelforce floater 2nd🤞and the 8/9 should be perfect for your Sage One.
 

chriswjx

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I am amazed that any reputable teacher would start or recommend a short shooting head to learn with or teach with.

Without sounding clever makes sure you have the afs on the right way round, if you can cast other lines the afs will be n0 problem at all, alot of modern fast rods work better when over lined with beginners.
Firstly often the rods are not correctly rated to start with and a begginer like yourself will not be used casting of the tip of a fast action rod.

If you get a line on it that loads your rod deeper and slows it down a touch you will get better feedback im sure

In fairness, instructors will typically say that you should bring your own kit, so they can judge if it's balanced correctly etc.

Then, you have most beginners (including myself) who are told that we should get ourselves a running line and a shooting head as they're the easiest to cast reliably and the most versatile.

So it's a catch-22. Sure a longer bodied head will be better for your technique learning, but if you turn up with a shooting head that's correctly balanced for your rod, that's what they're going to teach you on because that's what you have...
 

rotenone

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In fairness, instructors will typically say that you should bring your own kit, so they can judge if it's balanced correctly etc.

Then, you have most beginners (including myself) who are told that we should get ourselves a running line and a shooting head as they're the easiest to cast reliably and the most versatile.

So it's a catch-22. Sure a longer bodied head will be better for your technique learning, but if you turn up with a shooting head that's correctly balanced for your rod, that's what they're going to teach you on because that's what you have...
A good teacher shouldn't just allow someone to turn up under prepared for casting lesson, they should be asking the pupil about what they want to achieve, their level of experience and most importantly the tackle they use or they are not looking after the client properly.
The lesson should not start and end within the practical coaching part the best instructors will make sure of that by supplying notes and talking to the client properly before hand.

Having said that there thousands of so called instructors out there who have no place to be teaching fly casting and will happily let a client use whatever they like.
 

chriswjx

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A good teacher shouldn't just allow someone to turn up under prepared for casting lesson, they should be asking the pupil about what they want to achieve, their level of experience and most importantly the tackle they use or they are not looking after the client properly.
The lesson should not start and end within the practical coaching part the best instructors will make sure of that by supplying notes and talking to the client properly before hand.

Having said that there thousands of so called instructors out there who have no place to be teaching fly casting and will happily let a client use whatever they like.

I'll give the email conversation that happens:

Beginner: Hi XX, I wanted to start salmon fishing and my family have booked a holiday up on the (river), so this would be a great opportunity. The fishing is booked, but the Ghillie recommended I should first get a casting lesson so I don't waste the first few hours of the day learning, when I could be fishing.

Instructor: Hi YY, thanks for emailing me. I could fit you in on Saturday at Beat ZZ on the Tweed, starting for 9? How much fishing have you done before and do you have any fly gear already?

Beginner: I've been mackie bashing since I was 5, but now that I'm a grownup I thought I'd actually learn a sport. I went into the local fishing shop and they recommended me the Shakespeare Oracle rod and reel, and they had these Hardy shooting heads on sale that they said would match.

how it really should go (as you say, and frankly I agree with you, but it's not realistic)

Instructor: Oh, shooting heads aren't really the best at learning, I'll bring a spey line down with me if you tell me what weight your rod is. It will mean though that you'll probably want to get a spey line for yourself after the lesson as well so that you keep with what your used to.

Beginner: Oh, so the lines I spent £50-70 on were a waste and the shop was lying to me. Stuff this...

How it usually goes

Instructor: Oh those should work. We'll get there for 9, show you how to set up your tackle for 15 mins or so, then get you roll casting, get that forward delivery sorted, okay now to casts; snap-t and double spey, hopefully switch sides of the bank so you learn how to cast off both shoulders so that your not stuck to one bank, oh look 2h has already passed. (If fast, then the instructor might bring out some of his own lines)

Beginner: that was great, I can now cast a line out and fish.
 

Geordieboy

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I'll give the email conversation that happens:

Beginner: Hi XX, I wanted to start salmon fishing and my family have booked a holiday up on the (river), so this would be a great opportunity. The fishing is booked, but the Ghillie recommended I should first get a casting lesson so I don't waste the first few hours of the day learning, when I could be fishing.

Instructor: Hi YY, thanks for emailing me. I could fit you in on Saturday at Beat ZZ on the Tweed, starting for 9? How much fishing have you done before and do you have any fly gear already?

Beginner: I've been mackie bashing since I was 5, but now that I'm a grownup I thought I'd actually learn a sport. I went into the local fishing shop and they recommended me the Shakespeare Oracle rod and reel, and they had these Hardy shooting heads on sale that they said would match.

how it really should go (as you say, and frankly I agree with you, but it's not realistic)

Instructor: Oh, shooting heads aren't really the best at learning, I'll bring a spey line down with me if you tell me what weight your rod is. It will mean though that you'll probably want to get a spey line for yourself after the lesson as well so that you keep with what your used to.

Beginner: Oh, so the lines I spent £50-70 on were a waste and the shop was lying to me. Stuff this...

How it usually goes

Instructor: Oh those should work. We'll get there for 9, show you how to set up your tackle for 15 mins or so, then get you roll casting, get that forward delivery sorted, okay now to casts; snap-t and double spey, hopefully switch sides of the bank so you learn how to cast off both shoulders so that your not stuck to one bank, oh look 2h has already passed. (If fast, then the instructor might bring out some of his own lines)

Beginner: that was great, I can now cast a line out and fish.
How it usually goes...........

is exactly how it went!

I brought 4 rods from 7wt to 10 wt.
22 shooting heads. Yes. 22. Its fishing gear. I am 51, a big kid, and I can't help myself!
Rightly, or wrongly, I have 22 shooting heads. Just in case. You never know!

I learned to circle cast, snap T, using the SAGE Method 14ft. If I can use that, then I can use anything. In no time, I had my timing sorted with a RIO Scandi Versitip 10wt and was barely working the rod to cast 30yds. I learned about airbourne anchors and waterbourne anchors.

So I became at least a little dangerous to Salmon. Fishing the Spey I used my Sage ONE and verstip with 5ft, 8ft and 10ft Poly leaders. All no problem at all. No wind mind you.

I know I had the AFS on the right way (pardon me but I remembered my glasses for this very reason ) :-D I just couldn't cast it.
My fault entirely. If I lived near a river I would be there every day figuring out how to cast an AFS, and more than likely, a Mid Spey line I am tempted to buy.

Hey ho. More practice required by this young'ish paduwan.
 

Rennie

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Geordieboy, pardon me for being late to the party, but have you found lines and a set up you can cast on your Method?.
By that I mean the line and leader right to the flee. Maybe spend some time thinking about why you can cast with the outfits you can cast with, then carry that line of thinking to the AFS.
Bear in mind the AFS has a rear weight bias, it might be a question for finding a set up purely for that line on your Method?
Although I still have a 10/11 AFS, I sold on my 8/9's I originally had as I felt I couldn't fully gel with them, well not consistently enough for me any way.I've always preferred Guideline heads. Observation in that I add on the fine front taper the line itself is missing ( compared to the AFS any way ) in the form of a tapered or poly leader coupled with tippet to give a leader longer than the length of the rod.Suppose I'm trying to say a more substantial leader will grip more, bear in mind its a balance thing!
I myself have just got an Airflo Scandi long for my NT8 which is going to require a new line of thinking compared to the kit I used before.Maybe not a lot, just a re-working of what I already do.
Just so you don't feel obsessive, I've got considerably more than 22 heads!
Pedro.
 

Karl-K

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It’s weird how lines can be such an individual thing, I thought I had lots of shooting heads, maybe 15 but clearly an amateur compared to you guys.
I learned with the afs and loved it, just thought it wasn’t great with heavier flies, I now mainly use the Rio scandi in various weights, I’ve a few of the rage heads for windier days, 3 or 4 skagits for spring and fishing in BC, scand shorts for the switch rods and a couple of guideline 4d’s which I like but always think they feel a bit short, they fly but always think they involve too much stripping in every cast?
However the guideline 3D and any of the vision heads I just can’t cast for toffee, why I have no idea, I’ve tried and tried but just can’t get on with them
 

Geordieboy

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Geordieboy, pardon me for being late to the party, but have you found lines and a set up you can cast on your Method?.
By that I mean the line and leader right to the flee. Maybe spend some time thinking about why you can cast with the outfits you can cast with, then carry that line of thinking to the AFS.
Bear in mind the AFS has a rear weight bias, it might be a question for finding a set up purely for that line on your Method?
Although I still have a 10/11 AFS, I sold on my 8/9's I originally had as I felt I couldn't fully gel with them, well not consistently enough for me any way.I've always preferred Guideline heads. Observation in that I add on the fine front taper the line itself is missing ( compared to the AFS any way ) in the form of a tapered or poly leader coupled with tippet to give a leader longer than the length of the rod.Suppose I'm trying to say a more substantial leader will grip more, bear in mind its a balance thing!
I myself have just got an Airflo Scandi long for my NT8 which is going to require a new line of thinking compared to the kit I used before.Maybe not a lot, just a re-working of what I already do.
Just so you don't feel obsessive, I've got considerably more than 22 heads!
Pedro.
Morning Rennie,
On all of my rods, I can cast the Rio Scandi verstips and Scandi Short Versitips with an amount of efficiency using 5ft -15ft Poly and versileaders. So I have a system that works for me currently.

Clearly, understanding the D Loop is very important. My SAGE ONE is simply lovely to cast with a RIO SSVT. I have no doubt, it will be equally lovely to cast with an AFS. Tip wise, I was using an 8ft Salmon Hover polyleader with about a 4ft leader and size 12 double. Not too heavy for the AFS I think? But maybe too light to assist in creating an anchor? I wasn't creating a strong enough anchor or loading the rod with the AFS. I need to learn this.

I have no doubt I could figure it out if I lived near a river. Fishing the SPEY, I was having to cast straight across the river and retrieve my flies at Boat of Garten, as there was very little flow where I was. The Shorter scandi heads helped with this as I was able to retrieve more line. With the AFS, it had run out of steam by the time I was swinging the fly. Just not enough flow.

Regarding my heads, I have skagits and Scandi Versitips for all 4 rods. I also have a mixture of Intermediates and Sink 1/2's etc. Thus far, I've not fished a river or conditions that the Versitips haven't been able to cope with.

The 1 day at Fochabars had a 30mph Northwind blowing up stream. I fished my 14 9wt METHOD with a 650 grain skagit but only got about 1 in 5 good casts across the river. I was casting off my left shoulder in that wind so can be forgiven for struggling.
 

Springer

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I would always teach a beginner with a shooting head, why make life any harder for them than it need be?

Ive had many pupils come with long spey lines recommended by a gillie who was probably selling them, tackle shop or guy on a forum and to be honest they weren't going to develop the skills to use them effectively if they had two lifetimes.

Most people who are starting out as a new salmon fisher want to catch fish way more than they want to be tournament casters. On that basis they need to be able to cast different sink tip and various weights of flies effectively to a reasonable distance, they dont need to be able to cast a long spey line gracefully at the start or even ever for that matter.

Ive fished successfully using shooting heads all around the world on rivers big and small while many here years ago were telling me it wasnt right, a lot has changed in the 12yrs or more since, just like people now fish shorter rods than they used to, again something I was doing a long time ago and people wanted to criticise me for it. You only need to speak to retailers these days to see what lines are selling best, they wont say long spey lines thats for sure.

My thoughts are before you can learn how to fish you need to be able to get a line out and put a fly in the water, once its in the water you can then think about being a fisherman in terms of how to fish that fly. Integrated or separate shooting heads in the 3-3.5x the rod length range are both versatile and easier to learn to cast well with than spey lines in the 4x rod length and above category, so why make life hard for people?

People who think everyone should be able to cast longer spey lines can probably cast them to a reasonable level, that might have came from years of practise or they just have a natural ability but they dont realise how hard some people find fly casting and the longer the line the more skill is required.

I can teach all of the spey casting fundamental movements and tempos with an AFS (or similar) on a 13-14' rod, if the pupil can then copy and repeat these movements they will be on the way to becoming a proficient fly caster. To transition to a longer line then requires a couple of small differences, nothing radical at all. If they feel the need to do this it can be easily looked at later.

I swear Ive seen so many frustrated anglers ready to jack the whole job in because they were told they needed a spey line and they couldn't cast it.

Im never going to get into lengthy correspondence with a new pupil over tackle, Im going to say to them bring what you have and lets have a look at it. If we can work with it then we will, if we cant I will most likely have lines on reels or even rods for them to try, they can then make their own minds up before buying anything from whoever they prefer. I never sold tackle on the riverbank so my only interest was they got something they could work with rather than an old spey line off the top shelf that nobody wanted and was gathering dust.
 
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bankwheel

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Totally agree Allan (and I don’t say that too often😆). My wife got into salmon fishing just before the lockdown, if I had started her on a Spey line, I would still be trying to get her to cast a decent enough line to catch fish, which is the whole point. Instead she is using a Salmologic set up which allowed her to pick up the basic casting requirements to allow her to fish and catch salmon. She can now cast off either shoulder and turns the line over perfectly almost every cast. She doesn’t cast far, around 20 yards max but she can’t catch and she enjoys it because each cast sends the line out so she is not frustrated by trying too hard to get the line out.
 

PETEY

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I would always teach a beginner with a shooting head, why make life any harder for them than it need be?

Ive had many pupils come with long spey lines recommended by a gillie who was probably selling them, tackle shop or guy on a forum and to be honest they weren't going to develop the skills to use them effectively if they had two lifetimes.

Most people who are starting out as a new salmon fisher want to catch fish way more than they want to be tournament casters. On that basis they need to be able to cast different sink tip and various weights of flies effectively to a reasonable distance, they dont need to be able to cast a long spey line gracefully at the start or even ever for that matter.

Ive fished successfully using shooting heads all around the world on rivers big and small while many here years ago were telling me it wasnt right, a lot has changed in the 12yrs or more since, just like people now fish shorter rods than they used to, again something I was doing a long time ago and people wanted to criticise me for it. You only need to speak to retailers these days to see what lines are selling best, they wont say long spey lines thats for sure.

My thoughts are before you can learn how to fish you need to be able to get a line out and put a fly in the water, once its in the water you can then think about being a fisherman in terms of how to fish that fly. Integrated or separate shooting heads in the 3-3.5x the rod length range are both versatile and easier to learn to cast well with than spey lines in the 4x rod length and above category, so why make life hard for people?

People who think everyone should be able to cast longer spey lines can probably cast them to a reasonable level, that might have came from years of practise or they just have a natural ability but they dont realise how hard some people find fly casting and the longer the line the more skill is required.

I can teach all of the spey casting fundamental movements and tempos with an AFS (or similar) on a 13-14' rod, if the pupil can then copy and repeat these movements they will be on the way to becoming a proficient fly caster. To transition to a longer line then requires a couple of small differences, nothing radical at all. If they feel the need to do this it can be easily looked at later.

I swear Ive seen so many frustrated anglers ready to jack the whole job in because they were told they needed a spey line and they couldn't cast it.

Im never going to get into lengthy correspondence with a new pupil over tackle, Im going to say to them bring what you have and lets have a look at it. If we can work with it then we will, if we cant I will most likely have lines on reels or even rods for them to try, they can then make their own minds up before buying anything from whoever they prefer. I never sold tackle on the riverbank so my only interest was they got something they could work with rather than an old spey line off the top shelf that nobody wanted and was gathering dust.
Hi Springer, you mention perfecting technique with , for example , an AFS head. You also mention moving onto different weights of flies / sinking leaders. Should a proficient caster be able to do the latter ( sinking leaders / heavy - weighted flies etc ) with this head? I have always struggled with anything faster sinking than an intermediate tip and " regular" non weighted flies on this head. Are there better options for the heavy stuff?
 

chriswjx

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Hi Springer, you mention perfecting technique with , for example , an AFS head. You also mention moving onto different weights of flies / sinking leaders. Should a proficient caster be able to do the latter ( sinking leaders / heavy - weighted flies etc ) with this head? I have always struggled with anything faster sinking than an intermediate tip and " regular" non weighted flies on this head. Are there better options for the heavy stuff?

I was using my 7/8 one to throw a brown which i believe is fast sink (3rd from bottom of the range) with a 1" copper tube? Though don't know if that's classed as a heavy fly...

Also tried it with the ex. super fast (bottom of the range), but that killed it 😂 my 13' rod didn't have enough to even lift it haha
 

PETEY

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I was using my 7/8 one to throw a brown which i believe is fast sink (3rd from bottom of the range) with a 1" copper tube? Though don't know if that's classed as a heavy fly...

Also tried it with the ex. super fast (bottom of the range), but that killed it 😂 my 13' rod didn't have enough to even lift it haha
I can get a sinking leader out ok with this head - just the fine taper of the last part of this head means that on a longer cast, the result at the working end isn`t too perdy :LOL:
 

Petekd

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I learnt to cast with Glenda Powell using shortish shooting heads, she had us fishing in an hour. I caught a fish first day and was hooked ever since. Since then and following a number of other lessons I’ve adapted what was taught into 2-3 casts all waterborne anchor, one for left bank, one for right bank that I can use in all conditions shooting 60’ of running line comfortably for general fishing and plenty more in reserve if I need to. I see, all the time, people struggling with long lines when the reality is a shorter head would be way more suited. I would love to be able to single Spey full lines but that means ripping up the page, starting again and all I want to do is catch fish. I’ve heard all the arguments about noisy casts etc with shooting heads and water borne anchors, a long leader goes a long way to curing that and I’ll put my catch record on the river I fish against anybodies. I go fishing to catch fish, I see a lot of lads throwing beautiful tight loops with delicate single speys but they are often at max range and just don’t cover half the water I can hammering out a shorter head. I will pick up the longer heads in the near future and get to grips with them but it’s a luxury that I can now afford having learnt how to fish effectively. I’d hate to start out there though.
 

PB

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Georgieboy, just a quick comment on your set-up, if I may. You mention adding polyleaders to your Rio Scandi Versitip lines. They are not really designed for them. They come with four 10ft or 15ft Versitips, which give you whatever sinking option you want - intermediate, sink 3 etc, to which you add your nylon or flourocarbon leader. Adding a polyleader between the two isn't what the line was designed for and will make it harder to cast, particularly one 10ft long. Adding this means you will be casting 25ft of sinking tip on the standard Versitip line.

I would just add that I find the 42gm standard Versitip really flies with my 14ft rods (including the Sage 1), ditto the 39 gm Versitip with my 13ft rods.

Cheers,

PB.
 

Springer

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Hi Springer, you mention perfecting technique with , for example , an AFS head. You also mention moving onto different weights of flies / sinking leaders. Should a proficient caster be able to do the latter ( sinking leaders / heavy - weighted flies etc ) with this head? I have always struggled with anything faster sinking than an intermediate tip and " regular" non weighted flies on this head. Are there better options for the heavy stuff?
Ive always felt that the AFS could handle the tips it came with perfectly well. The fastest tip being the 7ips black one was fine with a decent conehead. The AFS was never designed to be throwing the big gear about, by that I mean the proper heavy T tips and flies, for that there are better lines like skagit and the hybrid type lines like Rage etc.

AFS is a great beginners line and for many situations in all but the coldest of spring on many rivers a 10" ex fast tip and a modest fly will often be in the ball park. Of course the better your casting and fishing skills become the more you will venture into different set-ups. The Scandi Versitip is a good line for slightly heavier work. From there I tented to go for sinking heads unless it was a Skagit.
 

Rennie

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Two things here, 1st to answer Petey's question. In short, yes you can and should be able to cast polytips off the front of your AFS. However compared to some floating heads the AFS in general can struggle with the faster polytips and the heavier tubes.I never liked AFS with above an Airflo green poly. and say a 1" copper tube.As a consequence I favour Guideline heads for all round performance in that I consider and certainly in my hands they'll cast most things I could want a floating line to cast. Bear in mind the AFS is considered very much a presentation line and will excel with tapered leaders and dressed flee's.
In all honesty if you raise your skill level with the AFS you should be able to cope just fine. So either put some time and effort in with the AFS or try say a Guideline floating head, they will cast any poly/tube combo just fine.
2ndly, to answer PB's reply to Geordie boy, you most certainly can cast any form of Rio Versi Tip line with a poly on the front. These lines can be considered in the same way as just about any other shooting head type of line in that they'll cast and present so much better with a leader the length of the rod on the front end. Obviously if your using any of the sinking tips, a long length of mono/fluro leader might not be the best option for controlling the depth of ones flee. So simply utilising a 5ft or 10ft poly of equal or faster sink rate to the tip in use and 5ft of tippet material of choice will do a cracking job. And yes, fair comment from PB in that it could give you 25ft of sinker, but thats no bad thing at all!, in fact I personally prefer a longer slower graduated sinking tip to a shorter faster tip!.
Sorting your multi tip lines in this way does a dual job, yes you get a 3D sinking tip in effect, but more crucially you also get a far better anchor which will help you in casting the flee in the 1st place, you'll also achieve far better presentation too!.
I fish all my Gudeline DDC muti tips in this way ( 7/8, 8/9, 9/10 and 10/11 ), picking 5ft or 10ft polys depending on what I want to achieve.
My Rio SSVT 8 weight, comes with the 10ft Versi tips, this line is improved 100% with the addition of polys on any of its 10ft tips, either 5ft or 10 ft.
Half the battle of casting any shooting head is getting an effective anchor of the front end ( by this I mean just the right anchor to hold the line in place, but not too much so it all sticks and stall's the forward cast! ), this will help in forming D or V loops nice and neat and tight off the water. A simple up n out stroke will then see the head disappear into the distance nice n straight.
Pedro.
 

Geordieboy

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Georgieboy, just a quick comment on your set-up, if I may. You mention adding polyleaders to your Rio Scandi Versitip lines. They are not really designed for them. They come with four 10ft or 15ft Versitips, which give you whatever sinking option you want - intermediate, sink 3 etc, to which you add your nylon or flourocarbon leader. Adding a polyleader between the two isn't what the line was designed for and will make it harder to cast, particularly one 10ft long. Adding this means you will be casting 25ft of sinking tip on the standard Versitip line.

I would just add that I find the 42gm standard Versitip really flies with my 14ft rods (including the Sage 1), ditto the 39 gm Versitip with my 13ft rods.

Cheers,

PB.
Ah, small misunderstanding here I think.
I fished the Versitips with EITHER, a 5-10ft polyleader, or a 12ft Versitip.

In the the low water, I waded the shallow fast water an cast in front and behind the stones in case a fish was in the oxygenated water, but flicking the shorter 5ft tips proved to be the better option, for casts between 10yds, to 25yds.

Apologies if my Rhetoric wasnt so clear initially 🤗
 
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