Ribble 2021

budge

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There was an article on a TV program where they had caught a fly tipper for dumping a whole heap of asbestos. They caught him by CCTV, and he was fined £1500, and they said they were delighted with the result. However, he's quids in, because proper asbestos disposal would have cost more. He wasn't even fined the cost of the clean up and correct disposal, so how can it be any form of deterrent?

The fine for no motor insurance is less than the cost of motor insurance, for nearly everyone. From the DVLA Website:

"The police could give you a fixed penalty of £300" I mean, wtf!

Sure, you get some points, but if you're the sort who would, you wouldn't care anyway, and, it only says "could".

At the top of our road, currently, is a fridge, a mattress, a cupboard, and various assorted large pieces of other rubbish. Such nice people.

Anyway, this £2000 fine is beyond a joke, and do not apologise for having brought it up. I have signed the petition, and thank you for linking it, but sadly, I suspect it's doomed to failure.

Let's imagine it succeeds, how much per fish would be appropriate. Considering the entire fish kill was estimated to be around 15,000, and I would think the minimum the fine should have actually been would be £30,000. Does £2 per fish seem reasonable.

Better fines would be the entire cost to the environment agency of the clean up, and fish restocking exercise. I could imagine that could easily stretch to several hundreds of thousands of pounds. Then again, they'd never see it. The firm would just declare itself bankrupt, and it would be written off by a court. They would then reopen, with a new name, with new registered directors, and that would be that.

Very sad.
Not sure how these court cases work but I assume it is just a civil case with no criminal convictions ? Maybe things would be different if the people responsible risked a jail sentence rather than a slap on the wrist ?

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NEbody

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Not sure how these court cases work but I assume it is just a civil case with no criminal convictions ? Maybe things would be different if the people responsible risked a jail sentence rather than a slap on the wrist ?

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Fines are imposed by courts in criminal cases. Consider how galling it is for the EA people who spend a lot of time and effort building a case for prosecution (with the constraints of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act) only for the courts to impose paltry penalties. Added to which, fines disappear into government coffers rather than being used to correct the wrongdoing. (There is an alternative that the EA use in less serious cases. A polluter can opt for an Enforcement Undertaking by which they avoid prosecution but put right the thing they’ve done wrong. That means the money they pay, which can be a six figure sum, goes to something relevant and beneficial to the river they’ve affected.)

The upside of a conviction in a criminal case, even if the fine is small, is that the level of proof required in a criminal case is higher than that required in a civil case. That means that it’s easier for someone who’s been adversely affected to take a civil case to claim damages in compensation for the wrong done. It’s what Fish Legal do for their member clubs and why we should support them by joining the Angling Trust.
 

Saint Andrews

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At long last a good river running with over two metres showing at Waddow. The fish will move on this water, and once it begins to fine off the rods will be out once again.

Waddow Fish count. July

We had a total of 246 counted up and 24 fish counted down. The up counts were 148 fish under 4 lbs and 74 fish over 4lbs. Very poor figures. From the beginning of the year we have only had 131 fish over 4lbs and 271 under 4lbs. Not a lot to give us confidence, unless the runs build up from now until the end of the season we have a real concern.
The numbers are alarming Fred, I agree, however we've had hardly any water since very early spring and while some fish will push up over wet stones, most will not. I hope the rumours iv heard of lower pools with good numbers of fish flashing and splashing will run en-mass on this and the next waters. That said, although I've always been the Mr Positive, i can't help feeling my positive disposition is in vain and the numbers won't materialise... but I live in hope.
 

Salmo solar

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Well nearly off the mark, lost one today about 10lb on mid ribble, it just wouldn't stay in the water, acted like a Seatrout and might have been one. Good water today I'm sure fish must have been caught with more opportunity tomorrow. Did manage 3 seatrout ranging from 1/2-3 lb. Not many people fishing though has everyone already given up?

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natthargreaves

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Was out on big ribble last night for 3 hours or so below the De tabley Bridge water was a bit coloured and running at .75m too much colour for the fly but spinner was OK I missed 2 fish but never saw a fin.I am sure the silver tourists are on the way up river.
I have been out most days this season if not fishing looking and can honest say on the lower river I have not seen a fish turn.By this time last year I had about 15 good sized seatrout and a 17lb salmon so the numbers that Fred posted earlier seam to ring true
Will be out again tonight the water should be perfect for the fly
Tight lines Natt
 

Andrew B

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Just walking on some of the small tributaries round Pendle today, so good to see them running fast and clear.
I’d be amazed if rods from Settle to Mid Ribble have had nothing today?
 

playhappy

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Hooked 2, landed neither. Both decent salmon and one looked very fresh. Was at Low Moor. No other anglers.
Must have been your car on the car park - I had a look over the wall at low moor and it was high and mucky - only had my fly rod in the car so went further up. Had two great evenings on nice water but nothing else to report - lovely to be out after ten weeks of low water. Lets hope we get a top up.
 

wilbert

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Fished hard for 8 hrs yesterday. Only saw 2 small fish head and tail on what was great running water and not a sniff at the business end. Even the trout had their heads down but at least the river is looking better.
 

Rob Starkie

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Does anyone know if stocking of Salmon and Trout still occurs in the Ribble system? I've seen that the Witcherwell hatchery closed in the late 90s, and just wondered if stocking still occurs.
 

Ratman

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Fished hard after work until dark on upper river, nice water for fly, just a couple of good trout for my efforts. Fished down last pool, wound in, bit my fly off and a salmon in mid teens crashed out in the spot I'd just fished through. Not my day.
 

sutty

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Having had so few salmon fishing opportunities, I fished hard yesterday. Got there at 11AM, and left at 10PM. Water was a perfect height, and a lovely colour. Never saw a fish move or disturb the water all day. My friend had a great day fishing coarse style, with maggot. And I managed a couple of trout myself, and some smaller fish, one where I couldn't believe it had taken the salmon lure I had on, which was bigger than its head.

I tried fishing high, mid and low heights. I changed lure, multiple times, but nothing. There were no fish, I'm sure. If there were fish, they were just passing by, and didn't pause to look at what I had to offer, and if they did pass by, I didn't see them.

Hours and hours of actual in the water fishing, breaking only for a few cups of tea, and for lunch and tea. I fished until I could barely climb out of the water onto the bank, and it was dark, but it didn't work.

I think I'm liking the lower water, with rising fish, so that I can do some actual fishing, and trick an unsuspecting trout or grayling.

There's only so many times I can keep on going with hope, thrashing away at the water, for not even as much as a pull, and keep saying I had a great time. Well, I did get a pull, from at least a decent fish, but it got off, and, importantly, it wasn't a salmon, simply not big enough. If I had to guess, from the short time I felt the weight, I would say a trout at about 1.5lbs max.

Still, for now, I can still manage to say, I had a great time.
 
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budge

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Having had so few salmon fishing opportunities, I fished hard yesterday. Got there at 11AM, and left at 10PM. Water was a perfect height, and a lovely colour. Never saw a fish move or disturb the water all day. My friend had a great day fishing coarse style, with maggot. And I managed a couple of trout myself, and some smaller fish, one where I couldn't believe it had taken the salmon lure I had on, which was bigger than its head.

I tried fishing high, mid and low heights. I changed lure, multiple times, but nothing. There were no fish, I'm sure. If there were fish, they were just passing by, and didn't pause to look at what I had to offer, and if they did pass by, I didn't see them.

Hours and hours of actual in the water fishing, breaking only for a few cups of tea, and for lunch and tea. I fished until I could barely climb out of the water onto the bank, and it was dark, but it didn't work.

I think I'm liking the lower water, with rising fish, so that I can do some actual fishing, and trick an unsuspecting trout or grayling.

There's only so many times I can keep on going with hope, thrashing away at the water, for not even as much as a pull, and keep saying I had a great time. Well, I did get a pull, from at least a decent fish, but it got off, and, importantly, it wasn't a salmon, simply not big enough. If I had to guess, from the short time I felt the weight, I would say a trout at about 1.5lbs max.

Still, for now, I can still manage to say, I had a great time.
You're not on your own Sutty. Just had another fruitless few hours on decent water with not a touch. I did actually see a salmon which belly flopped out just upstream of me so I might have disturbed it from its lie. Saw a few small seatrout jumping too. Bit different to last season but just got to keep trying. River was dropping nicely this morning but I'm sure it had started to rise and colour slightly when I left.

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budge

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Does anyone know if stocking of Salmon and Trout still occurs in the Ribble system? I've seen that the Witcherwell hatchery closed in the late 90s, and just wondered if stocking still occurs.
No salmon hatchery nowadays, not sure about trout though.

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Andrew B

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Fished hard for 8 hrs yesterday. Only saw 2 small fish head and tail on what was great running water and not a sniff at the business end. Even the trout had their heads down but at least the river is looking better.
Gonna say Wilbert, looks like 2021 is looking like a bad year for migratory fish on many rivers in the U.K.?
Prolonged drought should mean a build up of fish and a mass run after rain, unless and this may be wishful thinking, that they’re a few miles offshore and just getting ready to smell that freshwater🤔
 

Andrew B

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You're not on your own Sutty. Just had another fruitless few hours on decent water with not a touch. I did actually see a salmon which belly flopped out just upstream of me so I might have disturbed it from its lie. Saw a few small seatrout jumping too. Bit different to last season but just got to keep trying. River was dropping nicely this morning but I'm sure it had started to rise and colour slightly when I left.

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I’ve mentioned it countless times on this thread as it’s my greatest memory of a run of salmon. 2012 one August day of seeing nothing one bloke said the previous day saw hundreds of fish run through at tea time and on cue hundreds came past fresh from the high tide and through Calderfoot.
Don’t wanna sound pessimistic but there should be fish coming in on most tides round now, albeit we now fish in different times🙁
 

budge

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I’ve mentioned it countless times on this thread as it’s my greatest memory of a run of salmon. 2012 one August day of seeing nothing one bloke said the previous day saw hundreds of fish run through at tea time and on cue hundreds came past fresh from the high tide and through Calderfoot.
Don’t wanna sound pessimistic but there should be fish coming in on most tides round now, albeit we now fish in different times
Decent tides this week, unfortunately I had to leave early today so missed the best time after high tide. I have seen it happen myself when a dead looking river suddenly comes alive with fish although not hundreds of them. I am still convinced the main problems are at sea and not in the river. The Ribble is lifting with coarse fish of all species and sizes so there isn't too much wrong with water quality. I also can't see predators ignoring everything except salmon fry and Parr ? If the authorities don't have the resources to check anglers then the same probably applies to trawlers and inshore netsmen.

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noeyedeer

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Does anyone know if stocking of Salmon and Trout still occurs in the Ribble system? I've seen that the Witcherwell hatchery closed in the late 90s, and just wondered if stocking still occurs.

Wouldnt it be better to boost the stocking of wild migratory fish in our rivers and enjoy the decent runs of yesteryear than allow the breeding of Frankenstein pellet pigs in our estuaries? Maybe a levy on the fish farmers to fund it? That way the netsmen could also be allowed back to take wild fish for the table.....

Wishful thinking eh?
 

budge

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Wouldnt it be better to boost the stocking of wild migratory fish in our rivers and enjoy the decent runs of yesteryear than allow the breeding of Frankenstein pellet pigs in our estuaries? Maybe a levy on the fish farmers to fund it? That way the netsmen could also be allowed back to take wild fish for the table.....

Wishful thinking eh?
It does seem strange that the "scientists" think salmon are better left to reproduce and repopulate naturally rather than given a helping hand whilst doing the exact opposite with otters ?

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Occasional salmon fisher

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It does seem strange that the "scientists" think salmon are better left to reproduce and repopulate naturally rather than given a helping hand whilst doing the exact opposite with otters ?

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Not sure it is the scientists who are introducing otters, just people who want to see more otters on rivers. But I take your point. The main problem being that no-one has really identified exactly why natural reproduction isn't working as it should. - Loxie's "bottneck(s)" from another thread.
 

Rob Starkie

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Not sure it is the scientists who are introducing otters, just people who want to see more otters on rivers. But I take your point. The main problem being that no-one has really identified exactly why natural reproduction isn't working as it should. - Loxie's "bottneck(s)" from another thread.
I've been carrying out research surrounding this topic for my MSc in Environmental Science at the University of Liverpool - so far I've found that there is a strong relationship between March flows and the number of fry present during electrofishing surveys. Also now looking into the impact of stocking - in particular the Witcherwell hatchery closing in around 97/98 and the drop in Salmon seen in recent years - i.e was the system stocked to an artificial high and are we now seeing the 'crash' - would be interested to hear any thoughts.
 

Occasional salmon fisher

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I know a lot less trout stocking occurs on the Ribble these days, many clubs now don't stock trout at all. A lot of trout (from 10 inches to several pounds) used to be stocked each year by many clubs.

I never knew much about the Witcherwell hatchery, not sure if any of the river bailiffs involved at that time are still around ?

I am sure Ribble anglers will be interested to know how your MSc goes and any conclusions.
 
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