Poor Casting Technique

PerryPoker

Well-known member
Messages
905
Reaction score
261
Location
Highlands
I was sharing some fishing on a small spate river the other day with an "angler" with awful casting teckers. He constantly had to have 8 roll casts and a 4 snap Ts before finally making a proper cast. Surely with modern lines and rods you can easily get a sinking line up on the surface without that rigmarole? Well, I manage to anyway. It just seems to be a modern era thing as people tend to be more casters than actual anglers these days.

Anyone else encounter this scenario on a frequent basis as much as I seem to?
 
Last edited:

Loxie

Well-known member
Messages
10,936
Reaction score
1,575
It's partly because the modern angler is a bit fussed about how he or she looks and partly because modern anglers seem to know no better. Casting is, or should be, a means to an end. When I started you Spey cast, single or double, if space was tight, or overhead. Now everyone wants to do circle c's or snap t's or Perry pokes or whatever some wannabe internet hero has just invented. It's usually the same idiots who film themselves mishandling salmon they release badly and moaning if someone actually wants to eat one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gmm

PerryPoker

Well-known member
Messages
905
Reaction score
261
Location
Highlands
It drives me up the wall Loxie. Although my name is perrypoker I don't think I've ever made that cast to be honest. You rarely see anyone overhead casting these days. It worked before all these fancy flicks came to light. A majority of modern casting techniques are not suited to the wee rivers I fish as they cause more disturbance than anything else yet many of these new age anglers seem hell bent on getting the line out with them even if it does take several attempts.
 

dexterbuchanan1

Active member
Messages
3,583
Reaction score
13
Location
up to ma tits in water on the ayr
I was sharing some fishing on a small spate the other day with an "angler" with awful casting teckers. He constantly had to have 8 roll casts and a 4 snap Ts before finally making a proper cast. Surely with modern lines and rods you can easily get a sinking line up on the surface without that rigmarole? Well, I manage to anyway. It just seems to be a modern era thing as people tend to be more casters than actual anglers these days.

Anyone else encounter this scenario on a frequent basis as much as I seem to?

did you offer any tips to the "angler"as to what he was doing wrong?could he have just been practicing,he maybe have been sold a badly matching rod and line set up from a large fishing store?when i see someone obviously struggling with casting i offer help in diagnosing the problem and in doing so has lead to a few friendships along the way,we all had to learn somewhere,the easiest and best way to learn is via a good casting instructor but that can be an expense to far for some at the beginning!!
 

dexterbuchanan1

Active member
Messages
3,583
Reaction score
13
Location
up to ma tits in water on the ayr
It drives me up the wall Loxie. Although my name is perrypoker I don't think I've ever made that cast to be honest. You rarely see anyone overhead casting these days. It worked before all these fancy flicks came to light. A majority of modern casting techniques are not suited to the wee rivers I fish as they cause more disturbance than anything else yet many of these new age anglers seem hell bent on getting the line out with them even if it does take several attempts.

what a load of rubbish,a snake roll will make less disturbance than a double spey,overhead casting a SSVT rated correctly for spey casting will be far to heavy to overhead cast on your rod!!one mans fancy flicks are another mans get out of jail casts thank you very much,i use regularly an arsenal of casts and each one has a specific place/conditions its best suited too and when used it only takes one attempt to send the fly where i want
 

PerryPoker

Well-known member
Messages
905
Reaction score
261
Location
Highlands
Why would I want to offer a lad I don't know casting tips? He obviously thought he knew it all anyway judging by his attempts at these casts and listening to him rabbit on about line weights/grains/grams etc. Bores me to death all that mince. Don't get me wrong, there is a place for a circle Spey or snap T or jump roll snap snake cast on bigger rivers but not on a 20 yard wide north western spate river with pools smaller than family cars.
 

Loxie

Well-known member
Messages
10,936
Reaction score
1,575
Generally speaking on small rivers,which is my preferred playground, anything other than an overhead is a mistake, unless there really is no choice. You basically have two options; either stay well back, at least 10 feet, or crawl along in the river with the bank protecting your silhouette. If you are 1 feet from the river a very light double hander is the go, and by all means try a modern Spey cast but it won't work well. The creepy crawly approach, my preferred way, is best done with a light single hander.

Now you might want to argue the definition of small rivers but I am referring to rivers of 15 to 25 feet wide. I have seen countless examples of people marching up to a pool on such a river with a 13' 10wt, wading in calf deep and thrashing the water to a foam. At the end of an inevitably blank week they are the ones who say salmon fishing is all luck.
 

FloatinglineNelly

New member
Messages
922
Reaction score
1
Location
Scotland.
I,totally agree with you Dexter a word in ones ear quietly is usually enough to cement a long lasting friendship and help both of you attain better casting proficiency.
Just last Wednesday I told an Irish guy I was fishing behind to slow down a wee bit and stop his rod a wee bit higher...he was very chuffed with the instant improvement of his cast.
It's not being a know all...it's just being a friend.
More of that sort of behaviour would make the rivers a nicer place to be.
 

kgm

Active member
Messages
6,734
Reaction score
17
Location
Cill Chainnigh
I,totally agree with you Dexter a word in ones ear quietly is usually enough to cement a long lasting friendship and help both of you attain better casting proficiency.
Just last Wednesday I told an Irish guy I was fishing behind to slow down a wee bit and stop his rod a wee bit higher...he was very chuffed with the instant improvement of his cast.
It's not being a know all...it's just being a friend.
More of that sort of behaviour would make the rivers a nicer place to be.

That must be a record, finding an Irish guy that listened;):D You sure he was 100% paddy ?

However your attitude and temprement appear much gentler than that of the perry porker chappie
 
Last edited:

FloatinglineNelly

New member
Messages
922
Reaction score
1
Location
Scotland.
Aye, KGN I,m just a simple soul who loves to fish. Always look for a wee bit encouragement from fellow fishers and don't mind being told where I,m going wrong.
Percypoker seems a nice lad but a wee bit forward offering all manners of advice by PM.
He has just messaged me and told me my theory about fly head size is total rubbish and that Salmon don't feed in fresh water.
What a lot of rubbish, if they don't feed why do they take flies?
This Salmon fishing malarkey is so confusing.
 

PerryPoker

Well-known member
Messages
905
Reaction score
261
Location
Highlands
Ach, I could have I suppose floater but we'd have nowt in common. Hardcore wormers like me are frowned upon by the new age anglers. It's not the fact I'm unfriendly, I just get irritared by these young lads and their fancy casts thrashing pools to a foam for no reason other than trying to look good. As Loxie says, it's these guys who bemoan their lack of success. It's the water or the fish were not there etc etc etc. Could it just be that their mince casting is the problem? I certainly think so.
 

kgm

Active member
Messages
6,734
Reaction score
17
Location
Cill Chainnigh
Your the Nelly mind, kgm would be my simple name.

Fly head size is an issue,we like little heads on flies yet we all slap on massive ugly coneheads to get the depth we need. Only the mad fish, the rest watch Scottish soccer
 

Finnjoki

Member
Messages
396
Reaction score
1
Location
Helsinki
I was sharing some fishing on a small spate river the other day with an "angler" with awful casting teckers. He constantly had to have 8 roll casts and a 4 snap Ts before finally making a proper cast. Surely with modern lines and rods you can easily get a sinking line up on the surface without that rigmarole? Well, I manage to anyway. It just seems to be a modern era thing as people tend to be more casters than actual anglers these days.

Anyone else encounter this scenario on a frequent basis as much as I seem to?

Don't get too hung up about it. They could be just beginners for all you know. Everyone has their reasons for casting like they do. I'm no expert either but have seen some poor casters and I don't volunteer advice to them unless I speak with them a bit and build a repore firstly. Some good casters may even look at me and think i have a bad technique but I don't want them coming over offering advice. Most likely people know their own faults.
 
S

Sink23

Guest
Apart form the disturbing the water aspect, time spent making however many false casts is a waste of fishing time. You don't catch fish casting and the word single in Single Spey is there for a reason. See so many people making this cast twice and invariably the second attempt goes not a lot further than the first.
 

Safranfoer

Well-known member
Messages
9,494
Reaction score
2,952
You'd eat your own hands in frustration watching me... The only way to practice and get better is on a river, and young fishers will inevitably be less practiced than older ones so more likely to have to/want to cast again. We want to get it right. And we'll dick around using as many casts as we know, because we want to get those right too. You are right. We may well not need a snake roll in this instance. But when we do - it would be nice to have practised it in a non-pressured situation, where it isn't our best/only choice.

We do it on small rivers because they're less daunting, and we have a better chance of our meagre casts reaching something. Anything.

You're a meanie. We know we're reducing our chance of catching with every false/bodged cast. You don't need to tell us.
 

bros

Well-known member
Messages
2,768
Reaction score
78
Location
Central Scotland
Don't get too hung up about it. They could be just beginners for all you know. Everyone has their reasons for casting like they do. I'm no expert either but have seen some poor casters and I don't volunteer advice to them unless I speak with them a bit and build a repore firstly. Some good casters may even look at me and think i have a bad technique but I don't want them coming over offering advice. Most likely people know their own faults.


Most likely people know their own faults.

Really! I think not;)
 
Last edited:

Eminem

Well-known member
Messages
5,183
Reaction score
35
Location
Aberdeen
[/B]
Most likely people know their own faults.

Really! I think not;)

I agree with that. Like golfers a caster thinks they are swinging/casting well in their mind's eye until advised otherwise.
 

N2deep

New member
Messages
111
Reaction score
0
Location
Kerry Ireland
Poor Casting

That must be a record, finding an Irish guy that listened;):D You sure he was 100% paddy ?

However your attitude and temprement appear much gentler than that of the perry porker chappie


Hang on Jock .......had you considered it might be the language barrier ...... Oh and there is an A in temperament.
you see sometimes communication can be difficult ..give us the benefit of the doubt :D
I am sure I speak for most Irish ..we are trying..... in our quest to be better fishermen ...
Sorry... 'whats that you said' ..Perry Porker whats that... for F sake .. sorry its the Irish in me if you going to kick my ass learn to spell . or get some tuition from someone on the beat... Because what you are saying here does not seem right.
 

PerryPoker

Well-known member
Messages
905
Reaction score
261
Location
Highlands
Apart form the disturbing the water aspect, time spent making however many false casts is a waste of fishing time. You don't catch fish casting and the word single in Single Spey is there for a reason. See so many people making this cast twice and invariably the second attempt goes not a lot further than the first.

Couldn't agree more Sink23.

Too many rods think that a perfect cast after a pile of duffs will catch more fish. Making numerous false/roll/snap Ts/snake roll casts just to put out one "fishing" cast will drastically reduce any chance of fooling a salmon into taking your offerings especially on the wee spate rivers I tend to frequent. That's the reason I worm fish. One cast and it's working as it should be........Oh, Oh, Oh, There's him!!:D
 

kgm

Active member
Messages
6,734
Reaction score
17
Location
Cill Chainnigh
Hang on Jock .......had you considered it might be the language barrier ...... Oh and there is an A in temperament.
you see sometimes communication can be difficult ..give us the benefit of the doubt :D
I am sure I speak for most Irish ..we are trying..... in our quest to be better fishermen ...
Sorry... 'whats that you said' ..Perry Porker whats that... for F sake .. sorry its the Irish in me if you going to kick my ass learn to spell . or get some tuition from someone on the beat... Because what you are saying here does not seem right.

Aye but Kerry isn't really Ireland is it, your and entity and law unto yourselves down there :rolleyes::D
 

stormrook

Member
Messages
499
Reaction score
0
Location
fife
casting

Im a single handed gaia casting instructor and will help anybody . The problem is you get the guy who turns up like on the river i fish which you can easily fish with a seven weight, turns up with a fifteen footer and you try to give him a bit of advice that the river is too small to even try and spey cast and he basically ignores you. I had one guy turn up with the same length of rod fifteen foot and was raving about this shooting head set up he had on his rod ,the pool he was fishing was forty foot across.
Another guy i tried to show actually just recently whipped his expensive sunglasses right of his face and lost them in the middle of the river he said he was ok and new what he was doing.
Ive seen guys watch me cast the single hander all the way down a pool and they say you make that look so easy ,ive never had one say will you show me how to do that, its so strange. If it was me watching i certainly would be asking some questions.
Same with some of the single handed guys they stand and fish a certain bit of a pool because they can only overhead cast and are restricted by trees,surely get a lesson and learn to spey is the answer, no they would rather spend the money on a session catching rainbows out a pond.
 

Andy R

Active member
Messages
2,115
Reaction score
0
Location
mid Wales, just over the Shropshire border
Always use the lightest set up you can on the river concerned is a lesson that takes time to learn.... I've seen the same, fishing the south Esk in low water with a 14fter ( it was their small rod) I was using a switch. Having the ability to perform all sorts of casts ( including the perry poke which I've used when stood on the bank between trees on a flooded river Nith- effective but ugly...) will pay dividends over time, the circle C cast has been a revelation for me when stood on the left hand bank fishing sunk heads- no roll to the top needed. But the real knack is knowing when you don't need to use them.

Unless it's early season and bigger, heavier flies are needed then a single hander/ switch will cover a pool much more delicately and effectively than a proper double hander on a small river, if no trees are behind then overhead cast is effective .. this is how I fished in Iceland last year and it was the best way to cover the water in a small river (Rio Gold #7 single handed line, Loop Cross S1 10'7'').

As I seatrout fish with single handers all summer, they'll more than handle a salmon into the teens of pounds, certainly I'd be happy enough with one on any small river, I think some salmon fishers 'need' to catch one on a double hander mentally in order for it to 'count'.

Offer advice if the other anglers is struggling; some you just can't help and will always know better, others will be glad of the advice.... as Sanfranfoer says, some are learning and we've all got to start somewhere.
 

Loxie

Well-known member
Messages
10,936
Reaction score
1,575
Always use the lightest set up you can on the river concerned is a lesson that takes time to learn.... I've seen the same, fishing the south Esk in low water with a 14fter ( it was their small rod) I was using a switch. Having the ability to perform all sorts of casts ( including the perry poke which I've used when stood on the bank between trees on a flooded river Nith- effective but ugly...) will pay dividends over time, the circle C cast has been a revelation for me when stood on the left hand bank fishing sunk heads- no roll to the top needed. But the real knack is knowing when you don't need to use them.

Unless it's early season and bigger, heavier flies are needed then a single hander/ switch will cover a pool much more delicately and effectively than a proper double hander on a small river, if no trees are behind then overhead cast is effective .. this is how I fished in Iceland last year and it was the best way to cover the water in a small river (Rio Gold #7 single handed line, Loop Cross S1 10'7'').

As I seatrout fish with single handers all summer, they'll more than handle a salmon into the teens of pounds, certainly I'd be happy enough with one on any small river, I think some salmon fishers 'need' to catch one on a double hander mentally in order for it to 'count'.

Offer advice if the other anglers is struggling; some you just can't help and will always know better, others will be glad of the advice.... as Sanfranfoer says, some are learning and we've all got to start somewhere.

The 10' 7wt is an excellent tool for salmon. You can land any fish on any rod if you know what you are doing, I've had a 25lber on a 9' 6" and I've seen a 30 caught on one too. On big rivers a big rod is an advantage but you are spot on in that on small rivers you need to use the lightest possible outfit to maximise your chances.
 
Top