Poor build quality on top end ??? rod

Bonito

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See this all the time on, so called, top end rods and say nothing but this one is so shocking it deserves a mention.

Stripping the foregrip from a salmon rod can be a pain and time consuming so as not to damage the blank. Had my suspicions on this one as the first few inches fell away with only the use of my thumbnail.

Total strip took about 4 mins and not difficult to see why. You would have thought the accountant who designed it could have budgeted in adhesive.

I have done nothing to it in the pics except prize the grip off with my nail. Hardly a trace of adhesive, total rip off when you consider retail is £1169.99, rest of the build is hardly any better, no way can I find more than about $80.00 worth of parts.

No point in thinking it`s a "Friday" build or a one off as I see it on this brand regular and others in the same price brackets.

End of mini rant. P1150158.JPGP1150159.JPGP1150162.JPG
 

Bonito

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What brand of rod is it ?

Not up to me to name but very well known and it would seem respected, mainly because the purchaser rarely sees what goes into the build until things go wrong (not even then but I do)
 
D

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Looking at the top picture I'm guessing it's a Gary Loomis rod..Looks like one with that locking ring.
 

Irish Salar

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Hint in the use of the $ possibly? , my guess is a Loomis, I had to get the handle replaced on a Stinger it was that bad and i saw a Classic with the cork crumbled away in parts. That said there are a couple of other rod brands that need to step up their game when it comes to price band v build quality.
 

Bonito

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That said there are a couple of other rod brands that need to step up their game when it comes to price band v build quality.


You are not wrong there. At this minute in the workshop I`ve got 6 Greys, 5 Sage and 3 Hardy all with the same or similar problems.

Strange thing is, I see these brands week in and week out but very, very rarely get in a Dawia or Shakespear unless it is simple mechanical damage i.e. banged guide or something.
 

Bonito

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It's clear to see which brand and range it's from. Do you ever contact the manufacturers with these issues Stan?

What would be the point, not the remotest chance they would listen, up to the owner to contact them really.

All they want to know about (the manufacturers) are their profit margins.

A new handle has now been put on and clamped, the blank was keyed first then cleaned and Q8 expanding cork adhesive under which will fill every single pore (not gorrila glue), take it off in the future you will need a Dremel. Problem is before final sanding it needs 4-6 hrs in the clamps to fully cure, the big boys want it glued up as quick as they can.
 

westie4566

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I'd come to the same conclusion as earlier posters re brand!

Pretty bloody shocking to ask so much cash for such a poorly put together rod.

Did have a laugh at your comment re the 'cheaper' brands.

Only problem I've ever had with either of said manufacturers was a snake ring breaking. Promptly got sent a replacement ring and thread and was more than happy to rattle it on myself and bung it on the turner for a few hours.

I also have had 'premium' brand rod explode on it's 8th cast!!:rolleyes:
 

cloner

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That's why I use only custom built rods ... period. It's not that I can't afford the factory rods but I can't stand poor quality craftsmanship and the quality of the cork. Not to mention the money most top companies quote their rods :p
 

salmonaddict

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What would be the point, not the remotest chance they would listen, up to the owner to contact them really.

All they want to know about (the manufacturers) are their profit margins.

A new handle has now been put on and clamped, the blank was keyed first then cleaned and Q8 expanding cork adhesive under which will fill every single pore (not gorrila glue), take it off in the future you will need a Dremel. Problem is before final sanding it needs 4-6 hrs in the clamps to fully cure, the big boys want it glued up as quick as they can.
Do you see it as poor workmanship or are they that obsessed with their rods being lighter than the competition that the adhesive is cut to less than a bare minimum....even though it's insufficient to properly fix the handle?
 

MikeCC

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You are not wrong there. At this minute in the workshop I`ve got 6 Greys, 5 Sage and 3 Hardy all with the same or similar problems.

Strange thing is, I see these brands week in and week out but very, very rarely get in a Dawia or Shakespear unless it is simple mechanical damage i.e. banged guide or something.

Its a fair point but one could argue at the price of a typical Shakespeare or Daiwa then owners are perhaps more likely just to buy a new one rather than send thd old rod in to a professional refurbisher?

My biggest gripe with 'top end' rods is the cork quality. I had a good look at a new Hardy in GAC the other day and whilst cosmetically the rod looked the bees knees, the cork handle was actually full of filler, really quite noticably so. The other rods next to it on stand were very similar. £1000 rod??

I know that decent cork(flor) isnt cheap but surely a £1000 rod should be fitted with the best of stuff? Bruce and Walker seem to get it right with the cork quality, similarly a few Meisers i've seen seem to have a decent grade of cork.
 

Bonito

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Do you see it as poor workmanship or are they that obsessed with their rods being lighter than the competition that the adhesive is cut to less than a bare minimum....even though it's insufficient to properly fix the handle?

I`ve absolutely no idea what their reasoning may be, as far as I`m concerned it is simply poor workmanship. What is the point of fixing a foregrip to a rod, the only real point of contact between you and the rod but failing to make sure it stays in position ? That lack of adhesive also allows water ingress between cork and blank and deterioration will start.

The weight factor is a non starter, I`ve no actual idea what the weight of the adhesive is but at a guess I`d reckon not much difference than the weight of the raindrops on the rod after a heavy shower. Q8 expanding cork adhesive is flexible, totally waterproof and as light or lighter than the actual cork.

I say I have no idea of the weight difference but a simple experiment is no problem. I`ve got a few Sage in for cork replacement, 3 of them are simple hard use, ( I know the angler well he is brutal) but the other one I can tell from simply looking it has little adhesive. I`ll weight it before, take a picture and weigh it after take a picture (on digital scales) then we know, suppose be interested myself.
 

Bonito

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Its a fair point but one could argue at the price of a typical Shakespeare or Daiwa then owners are perhaps more likely just to buy a new one rather than send thd old rod in to a professional refurbisher?

My biggest gripe with 'top end' rods is the cork quality. I had a good look at a new Hardy in GAC the other day and whilst cosmetically the rod looked the bees knees, the cork handle was actually full of filler, really quite noticably so. The other rods next to it on stand were very similar. £1000 rod??

I know that decent cork(flor) isnt cheap but surely a £1000 rod should be fitted with the best of stuff? Bruce and Walker seem to get it right with the cork quality, similarly a few Meisers i've seen seem to have a decent grade of cork.


There is an argument for simply replacing Mike as you say but a lot of these repairs from mechanical damage, especially on Daiwa are older rods, they don`t want to get rid of them and the corks are absolutely fine.

Flor is certainly a bit more expensive but not earth shattering. I use AAA super grade from Portugal and I`ve no problem on my own web site of stating that Flor can be used as an alternative and slightly increased price but (IMHO) the difference between Flor and AAA is rouhgly one days fishing, then they both look the same. Even flor has filler, it`s nothing to do with filler it is the density of the cork. Again as on my last post, heading out to the workshop shortly, I`ve got both flor and AAA in stock, full wells trout, I`ll take a picture of both on the digital scales, the appearance is almost identical, the flor will be slightly heavier.
 

Bonito

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There you go. My mistake on post above, got no flor in full wells, it`s on order, the grips in stock are reverse half wells.

Anyway the flor is the top grip the AAA is the bottom grip. Flor weighed in at 14 grms being denser and the AAA weighed in at 13grms.

Just for good measure another picture ( or was it a joke ) of a grip that a client brought in with a kit. He had bought the full kit in USA, blank (nothing wrong with it), "sock", tube, guides, grip, reel seat.

The daft ultra light guides went in the bin when I showed him the HD snakes I use and needless to say the cork grip did not go on the rod (it`s in the picture). Kit cost him, from memory $230 and the rod built over there was about $400. (£750 here)

No names but rosemary, parsley and thyme spring to mind.P1150163.JPGP1150164.JPGP1150165.JPGP1150166.JPG
 
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fishpond

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Id concur with Bonitos view its poor workmanship - I bought a sintrix trout rod and was so appalled by the finish on the whippings (air bubbles & dust in epoxy, uneven wraps, gaps in the thread, rings not straight) that I sent it back and was assured it was a one off by the retailer and they would send one from the next batch that came in - they then had to apologise because all that next batch were as bad so I wrote to QC dept in Alnwick and pointed this out - no reply nothing it just left me £18 out of pocket for return postage - having looked at a few more in other shops this wasn't a one off.

The sad thing is I have older uk made rods from the same manufacturer which are far better finished and I have other Loop rods possibly from the same factory in the Far East that are really well finished, as good as the old uk ones. The other maker originally in this post was always known for great blanks but poor finish and even the herb related one mentioned later on seems to have dipped of late in quality although not as bad as the others. There's no excuse its poor QC whomever makes them.

Make your own or go to a custom builder - you of they can do a better job!

Richard

QUOTE=salmonaddict;947427]Do you see it as poor workmanship or are they that obsessed with their rods being lighter than the competition that the adhesive is cut to less than a bare minimum....even though it's insufficient to properly fix the handle?[/QUOTE]
 

salmonaddict

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Id concur with Bonitos view its poor workmanship - I bought a sintrix trout rod and was so appalled by the finish on the whippings (air bubbles & dust in epoxy, uneven wraps, gaps in the thread, rings not straight) that I sent it back and was assured it was a one off by the retailer and they would send one from the next batch that came in - they then had to apologise because all that next batch were as bad so I wrote to QC dept in Alnwick and pointed this out - no reply nothing it just left me £18 out of pocket for return postage - having looked at a few more in other shops this wasn't a one off.

The sad thing is I have older uk made rods from the same manufacturer which are far better finished and I have other Loop rods possibly from the same factory in the Far East that are really well finished, as good as the old uk ones. The other maker originally in this post was always known for great blanks but poor finish and even the herb related one mentioned later on seems to have dipped of late in quality although not as bad as the others. There's no excuse its poor QC whomever makes them.

Make your own or go to a custom builder - you of they can do a better job!

Richard

QUOTE=salmonaddict;947427]Do you see it as poor workmanship or are they that obsessed with their rods being lighter than the competition that the adhesive is cut to less than a bare minimum....even though it's insufficient to properly fix the handle?
[/QUOTE]

100 quid for the red stick then??? :p

The statement "paying for the name" has never seemed more apt.
 
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MikeCC

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All interesting stuff Stan.

Out of curiosity, do you know what kind of cork is used on the more expensive Sage rods these days? It has a different appearance to other cork handles, looks quite dense and has an almost white'ish kind if colour to it....not much filler either. Ive seen the same cork on an expensive Scott Radian rod....quite different to the 'average' out there. Almost doesnt look like cork, in an odd sort of way!

There you go. My mistake on post above, got no flor in full wells, it`s on order, the grips in stock are reverse half wells.

Anyway the flor is the top grip the AAA is the bottom grip. Flor weighed in at 14 grms being denser and the AAA weighed in at 13grms.

Just for good measure another picture ( or was it a joke ) of a grip that a client brought in with a kit. He had bought the full kit in USA, blank (nothing wrong with it), "sock", tube, guides, grip, reel seat.

The daft ultra light guides went in the bin when I showed him the HD snakes I use and needless to say the cork grip did not go on the rod (it`s in the picture). Kit cost him, from memory $230 and the rod built over there was about $400. (£750 here)

No names but rosemary, parsley and thyme spring to mind.View attachment 17462View attachment 17463View attachment 17464View attachment 17465
 

Bonito

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All interesting stuff Stan.

Out of curiosity, do you know what kind of cork is used on the more expensive Sage rods these days? It has a different appearance to other cork handles, looks quite dense and has an almost white'ish kind if colour to it....not much filler either. Ive seen the same cork on an expensive Scott Radian rod....quite different to the 'average' out there. Almost doesnt look like cork, in an odd sort of way!

Not a clue, there are loads of composites on the go, some good, some bad. Mate of mine Mick Bell brought out some composites a while back, they were excellent but never took off, no idea why, they looked and felt just like cork but took a lot more abuse. Mikes on here so he might spot this, call me a moaning old ******,;) and give a hint to what is on the Sage ones.
 

Bonito

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Sheesh !!!! lots of wee starry type things on the post above and me thinking we were mainly adults on here, the wee starry things were for b-u-g-g-e-r not a sweary word, what a nonsense PC world we live in :mad:
 

MikeCC

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Obviously its not, but it almost has s slight 'rubbery' look to it for want of a better description.

Not a clue, there are loads of composites on the go, some good, some bad. Mate of mine Mick Bell brought out some composites a while back, they were excellent but never took off, no idea why, they looked and felt just like cork but took a lot more abuse. Mikes on here so he might spot this, call me a moaning old ******,;) and give a hint to what is on the Sage ones.
 
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