Oyster Catcher scandi

bankwheel

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lovely, I really like the oyster Catcher and have caught a few Salmon on it, looks great in the water. Thant is stunning tying
 

Hardyreels

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I'll be copying this but doubt I can make it look so good. Would you say it has a bit of a Willie Gunn buzz about it?
 

silver seeker

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I'll be copying this but doubt I can make it look so good. Would you say it has a bit of a Willie Gunn buzz about it?
Thanks Ard,it has three primary colours similar to the Willie Gunn, only this one is orange, black and white,it's a fly I haven't fished before but I've heard it does work.
 

charlieH

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I'll be copying this but doubt I can make it look so good. Would you say it has a bit of a Willie Gunn buzz about it?
The original Oystercatcher has almost no resemblance to a WG. It is, like the bird from which it takes its name, primarily black and white, with a couple of flashes of orange, and also has a completely different profile. And the colours in the Oystercatcher are much more in blocks, I think with the deliberate intention of creating contrast (it was designed for use mainly in coloured water), whereas one of the essences of a WG is that the black, orange and yellow are blended together in a more impressionistic way.

To be honest, this version is so far from the original Oystercatcher that I would question whether it's even useful to use the same name (not to say it won't catch fish though).
 

silver seeker

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The original Oystercatcher has almost no resemblance to a WG. It is, like the bird from which it takes its name, primarily black and white, with a couple of flashes of orange, and also has a completely different profile. And the colours in the Oystercatcher are much more in blocks, I think with the deliberate intention of creating contrast (it was designed for use mainly in coloured water), whereas one of the essences of a WG is that the black, orange and yellow are blended together in a more impressionistic way.

To be honest, this version is so far from the original Oystercatcher that I would question whether it's even useful to use the same name (not to say it won't catch fish though).
Read the comment Charlie, inspired by the Oyster catcher colours, black,white and orange
 

charlieH

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Read the comment Charlie, inspired by the Oyster catcher colours, black,white and orange
Indeed, but the title of the thread is "Oyster Catcher Scandi", not "Oyster Catcher Inspired Scandi". I'm simply pointing out that in my view (and, I'm pretty certain, in the view of the inventor of the Oystercatcher, who I know and who has quite clear and precise views when it comes to his flies), this bears so little resemblance to the original Oystercatcher that it deserves a different name. There's so much more to a fly than a colour scheme - if not we come back to the idea that a Cascade is the same as a Willie Gunn, just because they're both black yellow and orange!
 

silver seeker

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Indeed, but the title of the thread is "Oyster Catcher Scandi", not "Oyster Catcher Inspired Scandi". I'm simply pointing out that in my view (and, I'm pretty certain, in the view of the inventor of the Oystercatcher, who I know and who has quite clear and precise views when it comes to his flies), this bears so little resemblance to the original Oystercatcher that it deserves a different name. There's so much more to a fly than a colour scheme - if not we come back to the idea that a Cascade is the same as a Willie Gunn, just because they're both black yellow and orange!
It's not supposed to resemble the same fly and being tied in a completely different style which is all about movement not colour blocks, I'm sure the inventor of the original pattern wouldn't be so outraged by me using the same colour scheme,but it's not the only pattern with these colours,ie junction shrimp,so I'd say he's copied other patterns colours to come up with his
 

longchuck

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Stunning fly ,although it is certainly different than the original oyster catcher,saying that scandi style looks superb and will give plenty movement in the water
 

charlieH

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It's not supposed to resemble the same fly and being tied in a completely different style which is all about movement not colour blocks, I'm sure the inventor of the original pattern wouldn't be so outraged by me using the same colour scheme,but it's not the only pattern with these colours,ie junction shrimp,so I'd say he's copied other patterns colours to come up with his
If it's not supposed to resemble the Oystercatcher, why would you call it an Oystercatcher scandi? Surely one could expect a scandi version of a fly to be recognisable as having derived from the original - to share its DNA, if you like?

I believe you're right that the Junction Shrimp influenced the inventor of the Oystercatcher, and of course he doesn't have a monopoly on that colour scheme. But in his (and I think most people's) eyes, the Oystercatcher is sufficiently far removed from the Junction Shrimp that it warrants being considered as a separate pattern. Not only is the profile different, but the balance of the colours is also quite different - there's far more black in a true Oystercatcher than in the JS, and the orange is little more than an accent to a predominantly black and white pattern. Similarly, though your fly may have been inspired by the Oystercatcher, in my view it's also different enough that it ought to be given a different name.
 

silver seeker

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If it's not supposed to resemble the Oystercatcher, why would you call it an Oystercatcher scandi? Surely one could expect a scandi version of a fly to be recognisable as having derived from the original - to share its DNA, if you like?

I believe you're right that the Junction Shrimp influenced the inventor of the Oystercatcher, and of course he doesn't have a monopoly on that colour scheme. But in his (and I think most people's) eyes, the Oystercatcher is sufficiently far removed from the Junction Shrimp that it warrants being considered as a separate pattern. Not only is the profile different, but the balance of the colours is also quite different - there's far more black in a true Oystercatcher than in the JS, and the orange is little more than an accent to a predominantly black and white pattern. Similarly, though your fly may have been inspired by the Oystercatcher, in my view it's also different enough that it ought to be given a different name.
Pick you a name for it Charlie saying it bothers you so much
 

charlieH

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Perhaps you could call it after another wading bird - the Ruddy Turnstone? That would acknowledge a link to the Oystercatcher, while not suggesting that they're the same!

Although I wouldn't say that Turnstones are exactly orange, the Ruddy variety does have a lot of fairly bright chestnut plumage, along with black and white, so the quantity of soft orange you have used in the underwing, together with the flashy copper body and the orange dyed JC, would reflect that.


turnstone.jpg
 
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silver seeker

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Naw think I'll stick to Oystercatcher scandi,sure it's not going to bother anyone but you,and that's ok with me👍
 

charlieH

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I'm sure this will make for an interesting conversation when I'm fishing with the inventor of the Oystercatcher in April and May!
 

longchuck

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I'm sure ally Gowan's is not at all upset with all the variants of his shrimp fly,or all the other flies that have been altered to a tiers own preference
 

williegunn2

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I'm simply pointing out that in my view (and, I'm pretty certain, in the view of the inventor of the Oystercatcher, who I know and who has quite clear and precise views when it comes to his flies), this bears so little resemblance to the original Oystercatcher that it deserves a different name
To be pedantic it has a different name, the bird is an oystercatcher not an oyster catcher.
I was communicating with the inventor of the oystercatcher and having sent him the picture posted on here he suggested he could tie an entire box of flies with the materials used. I won't say the rest of his comments, but Charlie is correct.
 

silver seeker

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To be pedantic it has a different name, the bird is an oystercatcher not an oyster catcher.
I was communicating with the inventor of the oystercatcher and having sent him the picture posted on here he suggested he could tie an entire box of flies with the materials used. I won't say the rest of his comments, but Charlie is correct.
Pedantic is about right,it's only a fly boys,who gives a **** what it's called I know I certainly don't,but some people are very petty in their views,and as far as the creator saying he could tie a whole box is s load of balls,and I don't give one **** what he thinks or says
 

Saint Andrews

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Well said SS, I've never know a thread get so pedantic over a fly inspired by the colours of another. The original post said 'inspired by the colours of' so didnt claim to be anything specific. Anyway a cracking tie, I'll certainly be trying that wing arrangement myself though may call it Cockletrapper or somthing similar to avoid criticism
 

silver seeker

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See you have taken a dislike to someone tying an Oystercatcher variant before willygunn2,grow up ***

Quote Originally Posted by williegunn2 View Post
Well, you have not tied an Oystercatcher, you have tied a variant, so why do you still call it an Oystercatcher?

In the subject title at the beginning of my original post I actually tried typing 'An Oystercatcher Variant In Which I Have Attempted To Mitigate Against The Goat Hair Wing Froml Wrapping Around The Hook Points Which Doesn't Happen To Some Salmon Anglers' but alas it wouldn't fit. Perhaps we should both credit our Forum Members with the intellect to be able to determine the difference, don't you think? My initial post clearly states more than once that the calf tail isn't included in the original dressing.
 
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