Monkeying about

Hemmy

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Wee oddments bottle
Green erse
Yellow hen beard
Yellow marble fox underwing
Sparkle
Black nayat (4 inches)
Red thread
 

Loxie

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I like my monkeys on a bottle. Gives the fly a great action when stripped.
 

Hemmy

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I like my monkeys on a bottle. Gives the fly a great action when stripped.

Do you think thethroat is necessary ?
Tied one with and one without.....can’t make my mind up which I prefer although can’t see why the salmon would be bothered either way

Also wondered about jungle clock.....what’s everyone’s views
On
a) need for throat hackle

b) need for jungle cock

Look forward to hearing everyone’s views
 

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Loxie

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I like both a throat hackle and JC, what the fish like I've no idea, but they give me confidence and that's important.
 

Hemmy

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Thanks for the comments guys.....not much of a debate stimulated unfortunately......... I'm not sure
 

charlieH

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Do you think thethroat is necessary ?
Tied one with and one without.....can’t make my mind up which I prefer although can’t see why the salmon would be bothered either way

Also wondered about jungle clock.....what’s everyone’s views
On
a) need for throat hackle

b) need for jungle cock

Look forward to hearing everyone’s views

Do you need a throat hackle? IMO, yes, if you want to call the fly a Monkey. I'd suggest that the hackle is one of the defining features of the pattern, and would argue that the lower fly in your picture isn't really a Monkey, but rather a Sunray Shadow variant.

Do you need a throat hackle to tempt a salmon to take? IMO no, but (as per Loxie's post) if it gives you confidence and thus makes you fish better/harder/longer there's a chance that it will increase your success. And that's sufficient reason to include it. On the other hand, I'm all for making life simple, so if the hackled fly doesn't give you more confidence than the simple winged one, I wouldn't bother with it.

Ditto for the JC.
 

New Era

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Do you think thethroat is necessary ?
Tied one with and one without.....can’t make my mind up which I prefer although can’t see why the salmon would be bothered either way

Also wondered about jungle clock.....what’s everyone’s views
On
a) need for throat hackle

b) need for jungle cock

Look forward to hearing everyone’s views

Hemmy, my views
Throat hackles a must for me for the flies i tie,, for movement and balance aided with double tube hooks

Jungle cock ? most over rated part of any fly dressings ,makes most flies look alike, anglers are so hooked up on their flies they all must have JC ? only all black flies need JC in my opinion ? .surely a tinsell coloured body is the main attractor ?

Way back in the 70's i caught all my salmon and seatrout on Peter Ross, Alexander, Teal Blue & Silver and Teal and Green,all on size 8 single hooks ! none of these flies had JC eyes , yes in the 80's on wards I dressed some shrimp patterns with JC and some with golden pheasant tippets ally shrimp style tyings. JC or not all flies caught their share of fish,

When I dress a fly I want it to last , JC breaks up when casting , and more so in a fishes mouth, Those of you that purchase flies the tier,seller will put an extra cost of 50/60p per fly if JC eyes are included ? A good JC cape will cost £60+? enough said on JC ,

The last 2 seasons, 80 + ? grilse/salmon/seatrout I have grassed ,all on double and tube flies, best 4 in a day ,have no jungle cock tied in the dressing , but all have tinsel bodies,I tie all my own flies ,way too many approx 200 doubles in sizes 4,6,8,10,,,,and 50 tubes brass and plastic, and 15 sunray styled lures, not one has JC included. Confidence !! key !

Every angler has to fish with great "confidence" whats on the end of their line fly or spinner, when they are hopefully covering fish lies , JC fanciers or not.

One last question to JC fanciers, If one of your JC eyes went missing would you change it immediately ? and would it take up space in your fly box never to be used again ? those that tie there own flies I reckon you would repair the JC eyes ?
 
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Rennie

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I'd take the throat hackle and JC too.For one, it makes it more of a flee(to me) and not just a simple wing.I also believe and think it gives a bigger aiming point over just a simple wing(more in the way of impact) on a tube.With the right tube and wing proportions I think it will encourage Salar to go right in for the whole body over possibly taking the wing alone, thus missing t 'ook!.
I don't doubt a wing on its own will take a fish or two-but the full flee as it were I feel would be a far better proposition and to the point give my confidence a good leg up!
I'd like to think a good hackle will help keep the tube and flee more in line with the wing, not letting it drop at an angle beneath it(which is most definitely not what I want to see),but in all honestly I dont think it will do that(so I'd just shut my eyes when the flee's close to me in the water,lol).
Pedro.


And as a P.S, if the bits fall off and it gets the raggedy look, fine with me, natures never perfect in its creations.
 
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Slaneybs

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Hemmy, my views
Throat hackles a must for me for the flies i tie,, for movement and balance aided with double tube hooks


One last question to JC fanciers, If one of your JC eyes went missing would you change it immediately ? and would it take up space in your fly box never to be used again ? those that tie there own flies I reckon you would repair the JC eyes ?

Agree on throat hackle although they are almost always singles these days due to C&R regulation.

I would not automatically change all flies if a piece of JC breaks off but the next day when chosing what to put on the one with the JC will be picked in preference. On something like a Watson's Fancy or Vambeck it has to be there.

raeson for edit missing "not" in last para!
 
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Hemmy

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Confidence is the key.....if you have no confidence in the fly you won’t tie it on until you’ve exhausted everything else so you won’t catch on it....I do get that.
In the 80s/90s I caught a lot of fish oncollie dogs,Munro killers and Ally’s and the like.......noJc in sight and no throat hackles on the collies.
I then went through a period where I was catching on Toshes/ monkeys/sun rays/ and many other patterns mostly adorned with JCeyes (even the sun rays) .
Of late most of my fish caught on cascade variants usually without JC.
Had a few trips to Alaska....them Pacific’s did not insist on JC
Do the fish actually see the JC.....who knows ?

Don’t know if a throat hackle would assist the balance of a wee heavy bottle tube.
Perhaps we all need two boxes....one for display to fellow anglers and one to contain scruffy fish catchers:rolleyes:
 

Hemmy

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Couple more.....fully throated and JCd

Bottle tube
Yellow fox
Black Nayat
Jc
No4 thread
Bit of bling
Green extension tube optional ?
 

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Clydebuilt

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I like these a lot
The nayat is a lovely material to use as an overwing in my humble opinion
Crackers
 

Hemmy

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Thank you clydebuilt.
Just started using Nyat and so far like it a lot myself.forms a lovely profile when wet.
 

Lamson v10

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They'll do the business delia :cool: I see you've added a recipe list also :D Thank's for that it'll save me asking :p
 
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