Making a copy of a Bogdan reel

Jimmcl

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Part 9
The Spool - Discretion is the better part of Valour

I put a small video up of the 2 ends being offered up to the gear & pins on the ratchet wheel last week, a link is here
and from that I easily worked out the required width of the spool at the centres, and the amounts of the overlaps to clear the brake drums and gear workings whilst keeping the edges of the spool inside the cage

I initially fully intended making the spool from a single piece of aluminium block, but looking at the tooling available and the sheer amount to be removed together with the issues with holding it all square to the spindle at each end whilst being able to machine the insides of the “bells”, I started to look at other options - it’s a big old bit of metal, and throwing away 90% of it to get something that might turn out all wonky wasn’t an attractive option. The other option was to make the ends & centre separately, and join them all together once I knew they all fitted the ends and covered the cage edges. Some really careful measuring followed to establish the profiles of the ends- each is slightly different as one needs to just clear the gears at the front, and the other needs to clear the brake & ratchet assemblies at the back, and all the while I was very conscious of keeping the thickness of the ends as narrow as possible to keep the weight down - the worst possible result would be to have a perfect shape at the inside (cage) side of the ends, but machine through the lot and be left with a doughnut when trying to follow the shape on the spindle side of the face.

The liberated Ally used for the faceplates was used for the ends, and some bar stock for the centre, which I turned to leave a small flange at each end, so that the spool ends had something to butt up against, to prevent the ends wobbling like a jugglers plate on a stick, and bored out the centre of the spindle for 2 Phosphor Bronze bushes, 1 at each end, with 1 end slotted to interface with the ratchet pins, and the gear fitted to the bush at the other end that would interface with the third gear on the faceplate. A long & complex explanation - here’s some pictures - easier to understand!
1616498752205.jpeg

The brake end with the slots for the pins in the top ratchet showing - need tidying up though!
1616498767725.jpeg

The front end with the gear to interface with the one on the faceplate:
1616498781941.jpeg

This one! This was meant to show the cross-drilling on the spindle for lubrication, but ended up showing how all the front end goes together.
The gap between the cage and the spool ends is 5 thou all round, sufficient to stop the line from making its way into the inside of the reel.

There are 6 parts to the spool - 2 ends, the centre spindle, 2 bushes and the gear, and the whole lot was fitted together with Loctite 603. This is amazing stuff - it holds like hell, and I used to use it for holding the driving wheels on miniature steam engines that had sufficient power to pull 20-30 people, so I reckoned the Enormous Salmon wasn’t going to be an issue here.

The spindle tube that fits into the gear cover and fits into the ratchet bolt was cross drilled to allow oil to reach the bearings, and the whole lot was given a light coat of oil, and fitted together - and behold, we had life - it moved perfectly well, both ratchets worked, as does the brake. I’ll do a video of it all moving when I get a bit further along.
1616498803708.jpeg

All together, and being watched over by senior Management.
1616498835050.jpeg

The front in a nearly complete state. The spindle for the handle needs shortening and a locating pin on the front plate needs making & fitting.

I’d decided early on that I’d like to anodise the faceplates and brake adjuster in the same way as the original Bogdan, and had a very productive discussion with a nice chap from a plating company, where I bought the aluminium wire and Sulphuric Acid, as well as the ”Deep Black” dye I wanted. - there is a slight issue here in that Sulphuric Acid is a restricted substance on account of idiots throwing the stuff in each other’s faces, and is also apparently an explosive precursor, so isn’t actually advertised by them, but only supplied in conjunction with other bits needed for the anodising. His recommendation, on account of my wanting a really good finish was to do away with the first part of the process completely - soaking in Caustic Soda (an equally unfriendly substance) - and instead cleaning the plates extremely well - to the point of obsession really, then to Anodise them in an Acid bath with Lead as the cathode for about 20-30 minutes, soak them in the hot dye for 20 minutes or so, and finally boil in water for 20 minutes or so. It sounds like the opening scene of Macbeth! I haven’t anodised before, but when making clocks, cleaning a brass face to the point of obsession is second nature before rubbing silvering salts into it to make it silver. That is effectively an electroplating process, but it can easily take 2-3 hours to successfully silver a clock face, but when you’ve already got 10-20 hours on that face with all the engraving it’s no big issue.

In the first part of making this reel, I’d scrapped a faceplate because it had a casting defect in it, so I dragged that out, polished it to a lovely finish, and used that as a practice piece to test the anodising process.

The first test was a complete disaster, with the plate coming out a very light shade of grey, when deep black was wanted, so a quick chat with the chap from the plating company ended up with a suggestion of a longer dwell in the anodising tank, and a slightly cooler dip in the dye bath - all of which ended up with an apparently good result - here’s the scrap faceplate, all looking good from an anodising point of view - I’ve circled the casting defect that led to it being scrapped in the first place, and it was subsequently used for some setting up, hence its somewhat bedraggled look.
1616499034174.png

It doesn’t show in the picture, but the plate is a lovely shiny finish, and as deep a black as you’d ever hope for. I’m well pleased with that result and will use the settings for the real thing later.

So what next? The plan is to make the locating pin for the front plate and drill the cage to fit it, then file the spindle for the handle which was left long intentionally to allow enough end play for the gear on the other end to be adjusted. I had forgotten completely about the reel foot up to now, but one of those is straightforward enough to make to the AFTMA standard. Then it’ll be a complete strip and anodising for the plates & brake handle, and rebuild. That’ll take a couple of days, but hopefully the next episode will be the last, and I'll have a finished reel to show you.
 

MCXFisher

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I remain in awe: thank you for posting this evolving story.

There's something about the Bogan that is analogous to the Boss over and under shotgun. The Beretta 687 action does exactly the same job (with extraordinary precision and reliability) as the Boss with about half the parts count and a quarter of the complexity, yet there is something special in the artistic and engineering conception of the Boss that places it far above everyday considerations of utility. I suspect that it may be the same with the Bogdan when compared to more workaday excellence such as the Danielsson or Lamson designs.
 

Jimmcl

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I remain in awe: thank you for posting this evolving story.

There's something about the Bogan that is analogous to the Boss over and under shotgun. The Beretta 687 action does exactly the same job (with extraordinary precision and reliability) as the Boss with about half the parts count and a quarter of the complexity, yet there is something special in the artistic and engineering conception of the Boss that places it far above everyday considerations of utility. I suspect that it may be the same with the Bogdan when compared to more workaday excellence such as the Danielsson or Lamson designs.
I understand where you're coming from - However the Boss & Beretta both have 2 barrels, whereas the Bogdan winds at twice the speed of the Lamson & Danielson! As for parts count, you're spot on! Here's a picture of the parts stripped for cleaning & plating. There's Loads of them!
 

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Jimmcl

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Part 10
Finishing it all off.

The handle spigot length was reduced to fit, and the locating pin at the top of the front plate was soon made & fitted, while the brake handle was “cooking” in the anodising tank - I used a battery charger, lead as the cathode and scrupulously cleaned & degreased all the parts being anodised, and having established the best timings and added a bit “just in case”, they all came out perfectly well, a deep & satisfying black and lovely & shiny.

All the parts that had been stripped from the faceplates were given an hour or so in a sonic bath to get them clean - the photo’s in this have shown just how dirty the parts get just by putting them all together & handling them constantly. The amount of rubbish at the bottom of the bath at the end of the process was unreal.

The final job was to make & fit the reel seat - there is an AFTMA standard for this, and one I was happy to adopt. The radial section that meets the reel was machined to 3 ½” radius to mate with the recessed section of the reel, and the base (the rod side) rounded in the mill using a home made “D” cutter, and 2 securing holes drilled. The holes were matched onto a short section of round bar, and the seat screwed to it whilst the tapers were turned to 7 degrees on the lathe. After rounding the corners, it was screwed to the reel using a couple of hex-headed Allen bolts - I’m a great fan of these, they can be tightened really well, and have a better lock to the driving head than a screwdriver.

The final part was putting the whole lot back together - the reel seat & spring hanger in the brake drum were held in with Loctite 603 (retaining compound) and impossible to move without heat, and the rest of the screws were held in with a tiny touch of Loctite thread lock - the same idea, but not as impossible to move
1616599525368.jpeg

Here it is stripped and ready to be cleaned in a sonic bath before being anodised. Lots of parts is all I can say.

Finally, all the shiny clean parts were reassembled. Plates first:
1616599538405.jpeg

And then into one piece- It all runs beautifully, and I’m going to take it fishing tomorrow. Some pictures of the finished item:

A picture containing floor, indoor, wooden, silver  Description automatically generated
1616599592715.jpeg


1616599601366.jpeg

That was fun - the drawings were the most difficult part to establish, but NJM’s website was a godsend, together with some assistance from a couple of nice American gentlemen with their digital callipers. I’d never dream of making one for sale - there’s far too many hours in it to make it a commercial proposition with my tooling, and I couldn’t compete with the commercially available ones anyway, but as a Lockdown project, it was thoroughly enjoyable - Frustrating at times, as the drawings & ideas had to be constantly modified and adapted, but brilliant fun.
 
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Pete V

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I've been following this on the fly fishing forum.
All I can say is that I think it is a great achievement.
Your skill is awesome sir.

I am not envious as I know it is impossible for me to create something like that.
Well done.

Pete
 

SnapT14

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Part 10
Finishing it all off.

The handle spigot length was reduced to fit, and the locating pin at the top of the front plate was soon made & fitted, while the brake handle was “cooking” in the anodising tank - I used a battery charger, lead as the cathode and scrupulously cleaned & degreased all the parts being anodised, and having established the best timings and added a bit “just in case”, they all came out perfectly well, a deep & satisfying black and lovely & shiny.

All the parts that had been stripped from the faceplates were given an hour or so in a sonic bath to get them clean - the photo’s in this have shown just how dirty the parts get just by putting them all together & handling them constantly. The amount of rubbish at the bottom of the bath at the end of the process was unreal.

The final job was to make & fit the reel seat - there is an AFTMA standard for this, and one I was happy to adopt. The radial section that meets the reel was machined to 3 ½” radius to mate with the recessed section of the reel, and the base (the rod side) rounded in the mill using a home made “D” cutter, and 2 securing holes drilled. The holes were matched onto a short section of round bar, and the seat screwed to it whilst the tapers were turned to 7 degrees on the lathe. After rounding the corners, it was screwed to the reel using a couple of hex-headed Allen bolts - I’m a great fan of these, they can be tightened really well, and have a better lock to the driving head than a screwdriver.

The final part was putting the whole lot back together - the reel seat & spring hanger in the brake drum were held in with Loctite 603 (retaining compound) and impossible to move without heat, and the rest of the screws were held in with a tiny touch of Loctite thread lock - the same idea, but not as impossible to move
View attachment 58953
Here it is stripped and ready to be cleaned in a sonic bath before being anodised. Lots of parts is all I can say.

Finally, all the shiny clean parts were reassembled. Plates first:
View attachment 58954
And then into one piece- It all runs beautifully, and I’m going to take it fishing tomorrow. Some pictures of the finished item:

View attachment 58952View attachment 58955

View attachment 58956
That was fun - the drawings were the most difficult part to establish, but NJM’s website was a godsend, together with some assistance from a couple of nice American gentlemen with their digital callipers. I’d never dream of making one for sale - there’s far too many hours in it to make it a commercial proposition with my tooling, and I couldn’t compete with the commercially available ones anyway, but as a Lockdown project, it was thoroughly enjoyable - Frustrating at times, as the drawings & ideas had to be constantly modified and adapted, but brilliant fun.
Absolutely brilliant....... 👏
 

sneakypeter

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WOW, that is a work of art, thankyou for putting this on the forum, your engineering skills are outstanding, just needs a fine springer to complete the process!
 

westie4566

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Words fail me - what a beautiful piece of work you've turned out there.

Thanks for taking the tine to detail the process as well. I've thoroughly enjoyed reading it and doff my cap to your skills.

Just amazing!!
 

mows

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Well done. An incredible feat. It looks stunning.
Good luck on getting a fish on the end.
 

DrPatrickT

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Well done Sir. I’d be sweating buckets even if I’d done a Pre-test on the anodising. But looks amazing. Although you are superbly skilled, I bet you’ve learnt a few new tricks and techniques for future projects. Looking forward to hearing of success with the reel. All the best, Patrick
 

Andrew B

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I’m in awe of folk who have such minds for engineering? I know that one can learn stuff on courses ect, but I do think there are some folk who are kinda born with such a gift and analytical mind for building things and working things out.

Different medium but some of the greatest acoustic guitar builders come from engineering backgrounds.
The reel by the way is already a high end treasure .
 

phil.b

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Stunning reel a work of art and hopefully you will get many salmon it .Great work and thanks for sharing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Chicharito

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Part 10
Finishing it all off.

The handle spigot length was reduced to fit, and the locating pin at the top of the front plate was soon made & fitted, while the brake handle was “cooking” in the anodising tank - I used a battery charger, lead as the cathode and scrupulously cleaned & degreased all the parts being anodised, and having established the best timings and added a bit “just in case”, they all came out perfectly well, a deep & satisfying black and lovely & shiny.

All the parts that had been stripped from the faceplates were given an hour or so in a sonic bath to get them clean - the photo’s in this have shown just how dirty the parts get just by putting them all together & handling them constantly. The amount of rubbish at the bottom of the bath at the end of the process was unreal.

The final job was to make & fit the reel seat - there is an AFTMA standard for this, and one I was happy to adopt. The radial section that meets the reel was machined to 3 ½” radius to mate with the recessed section of the reel, and the base (the rod side) rounded in the mill using a home made “D” cutter, and 2 securing holes drilled. The holes were matched onto a short section of round bar, and the seat screwed to it whilst the tapers were turned to 7 degrees on the lathe. After rounding the corners, it was screwed to the reel using a couple of hex-headed Allen bolts - I’m a great fan of these, they can be tightened really well, and have a better lock to the driving head than a screwdriver.

The final part was putting the whole lot back together - the reel seat & spring hanger in the brake drum were held in with Loctite 603 (retaining compound) and impossible to move without heat, and the rest of the screws were held in with a tiny touch of Loctite thread lock - the same idea, but not as impossible to move
View attachment 58953
Here it is stripped and ready to be cleaned in a sonic bath before being anodised. Lots of parts is all I can say.

Finally, all the shiny clean parts were reassembled. Plates first:
View attachment 58954
And then into one piece- It all runs beautifully, and I’m going to take it fishing tomorrow. Some pictures of the finished item:

View attachment 58952View attachment 58955

View attachment 58956
That was fun - the drawings were the most difficult part to establish, but NJM’s website was a godsend, together with some assistance from a couple of nice American gentlemen with their digital callipers. I’d never dream of making one for sale - there’s far too many hours in it to make it a commercial proposition with my tooling, and I couldn’t compete with the commercially available ones anyway, but as a Lockdown project, it was thoroughly enjoyable - Frustrating at times, as the drawings & ideas had to be constantly modified and adapted, but brilliant fun.
Absolutely brilliant. Well done!!
 
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