Making a copy of a Bogdan reel

budge

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Lovely bit of engineering

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk
 

JACK POWER

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Uplifting thread, thank you. Depressing too for a fella like me whose mechanical skills stretch to putting a rod together. Well done, hope you make it sing!
 

gcp1987

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Impressive. Looking forward to the next update!
If there's any way you could try and record some footage of the finished reel coping with a big fish tearing off into the distance that would just be the cherry on the cake of this thread. Hope you get a chance to try it out soon!
 

Jimmcl

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Impressive. Looking forward to the next update!
If there's any way you could try and record some footage of the finished reel coping with a big fish tearing off into the distance that would just be the cherry on the cake of this thread. Hope you get a chance to try it out soon!
Thanks - the next episode might be a bit longer as my lathe's forward/reverse switch went and atomised itself last week. The replacement isn't due to arrive until the weekend, so the remaining parts will have to wait until it's mended. The video of the Enormous Salmon would indeed be the cherry on the cake!
 

clydesider

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If not already suggested, this should be in the "great threads" for posterity.
Mike
An absolutely fantastic thread 👍 your super talented sir 👍 can't wait to see the finished article

This thread should be made into a sticky 👍
Thank you admin and jimmcl for agreeing to move this post to Great Threads.
Mike
 

Jimmcl

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Part 8
Small parts & tidying up

Just after I finished the last episode of this, the forward/reverse switch for the lathe - which was a mere 50 years old - decided to atomise itself - on inspection, the inside was a real mess and there was no alternative other than to order a new one. The new one took over a week to arrive and was successfully - finally - wired in once I’d worked out which set of leads were forward & which reverse!

1615816624852.jpeg

Completely atomised!

There were a number of things that needed finishing before I pushed on with the spool- The 2 ratchets on the backplate, the catches for the front plate & the handle.

On the front plate, there are 3 large diameter “fillister” type screws with large heads that slide along slots to lock down small latches into the retaining groove at the back of the plate recess. Needless to say, this being an old American reel, that no such thing now exists, and I couldn’t find a suitable alternative, so was a matter of making the three myself. Easy enough, make 3 stubs using some scrap (saves time for the crosscut), tap them 6BA, then cut & tap 3 pieces of stainless, screw them into the stubs (by holding the cut ends in the lathe and screwing the stubs onto them), turn the heads to the desired shape and cross - cut them on the mill to make the slots using a slitting saw. Polish & Bob’s your uncle. The reason for the wide diameters on these screws is so that, when slid forward in the slots, the head still covers the ends of the holes nearest the centre.

1615816649420.jpeg

The 3 Faceplate screws & their mandrels

I turned the 3 holes in the faceplate into slots for the screws on the mill and made 3 latches & fitted together. I used brass for these because it doesn’t rust, and I didn’t fancy the potential wear & corrosion issues if I had used stainless in an Aluminium groove.
1615816671218.jpeg

Fitted with the latches just protruding

I copied NJM’s photos for the 2 ratchets & worked out where they’d go on the backplate & brake drum. 20 minutes cutting, filing & drilling produced the 2 ratchets. Because I was so bothered about the top one, where there was no apparent spring working properly, I fitted this one first, looping a spring from a pile of “old stock” around the spindle and back onto a bolt under the ratchet pawl, and my assumption about how this worked proved correct – Halleluiah! That had been bothering me for a couple of weeks & I just had to know.
1615816690537.jpeg

Here’s the main anti-reverse ratchet being test fitted to the brake drum – using a drill as a temporary “will it work?” pivot.
1615816706327.jpeg

And this is the inside of the brake drum showing the spring wrapped around the spindle and secured to the ratchet at each end. It worked really well, the “click” is consistent and quite distinctive.

The “Poachers” click ratchet was offered up to the wheel, and centre marked for the on-off knob after I worked out how much movement the knob needed to produce – It’s an eccentric that lifts the ratchet from the wheel to make it silent when the Enormous Salmon runs. A small, fiddly spring was made to keep the ratchet engaged when permitted by the on/off knob. The knob on the outside for it is just a piece of hex ally that was turned to size, drilled, cross drilled & knurled – Knurling is pretty & shiny, so here’s some picture of it happening-
1615816728699.jpeg

The Ally knob with the knurling wheels either side of it.
1615816754849.jpeg

Knurled knob cross drilled & tapped 8BA for a securing grub screw, still attached to its parent piece of hex bar. This was fitted to the eccentric with a small “O” ring underneath to give some resistance & stop it turning freely.
1615816769622.jpeg

All fitted, showing the 2 ratchets in place. The click on the centre ratchet is quite loud, but the one on the bottom of the brake drum, which has 36 teeth around it is as discreet as the sound of a nice Swiss clock being wound - it wasn’t designed that way, it just happened.
1615816798466.jpeg

Senior Management carrying out a snap inspection. The parts of the reel can be seen amongst the mess on the bench behind him.

Handle -I thought about doing a complex exercise scaling the NJM’s pictures - for about a second – then thought sod it, I’ll just copy my Cascapedia, so I traced it onto paper, glued it to some stainless, & cut it out. Then it was filed, centres marked & the centre hole drilled & very carefully filed a square to fit the spindle, which was tapped and the 2 screwed together with a thin brass washer under for spacing. Interestingly the curvature of the Bogdan is a mirror image of the Cascapedia, so I went with the Bogdan design. For the counterweight I went with one slightly larger than the Cascapedia – Bogdan’s look a bit bigger, and for the handle I used a piece of Delrin, drilled through, and made a captive screw that would allow 20 thou of end play and loose enough for easy rotation. This is screwed to the handle with a countersunk screw through the bottom of the handle.
1615816824371.png

Pictures of the centre screw for the handle being made & fitted, showing the blank in the mandrel, cleaned up, in the rotary table with the slitting saw set to height, and finally cut.

Now that I know the ratchet in the centre works OK, I decided to case harden it - the pawl is hard stainless, but the ratchet itself mild steel, and in the “Old Days” there used to be a product called “Kasenit” that you dipped red hot metal into a few times, and it gave a reasonably thick case hardening coat to mild steel - perfect for these purposes. However, this has been withdrawn from sale on the grounds it gave off a bit of cyanide when hot (a search on the model engineering forums will find grown men prepared to sell their wives into slavery for just a few ounces of the stuff). There are alternatives, (and I didn’t opt to go with the “home cure” recipe of molasses, charcoal & borax mixed together) and given that my tin of the stuff disappeared years ago, one was procured, and the ratchet heated to red hot, dipped in it, quenched, and the process repeated 4x. The result was pretty good, it’s now certainly harder than a file can get through. Pictured below:
1615816859407.jpeg

That just leaves the spool to complete the construction side of this reel, after which I’m going to try anodising and blackening the faceplates and brake adjusting knob.

What it looks like now:
1615816872792.jpeg


1615816901246.jpeg

For the spool, there is a central tubular spindle that reaches between the top of the gear cover on the front plate (where it is fixed) to the middle of the screw on the backplate, and the spool itself revolves around this this with a slot to interface with the pins on the ratchet on the brake drum and a gear at the other end to mesh with the third gear on the faceplate. I can easily get either end machined OK, but the critical distance between the 2 is really difficult to establish by inside measurement when the whole lot is together. My solution is that I’m going to make up a “sliding” jig with a short piece of the spindle tubing at either end, a dummy spool end with the ratchet interface at one end and dummy spool end fitted with the gear at the other that will slide along a bar in the middle to interface with each end so I can get a dead-on measurement between the ends for the spool. Once this critical measurement is established, the rest of the spool is straightforward. I think.
 

SnapT14

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Part 8
Small parts & tidying up

Just after I finished the last episode of this, the forward/reverse switch for the lathe - which was a mere 50 years old - decided to atomise itself - on inspection, the inside was a real mess and there was no alternative other than to order a new one. The new one took over a week to arrive and was successfully - finally - wired in once I’d worked out which set of leads were forward & which reverse!

View attachment 58515
Completely atomised!

There were a number of things that needed finishing before I pushed on with the spool- The 2 ratchets on the backplate, the catches for the front plate & the handle.

On the front plate, there are 3 large diameter “fillister” type screws with large heads that slide along slots to lock down small latches into the retaining groove at the back of the plate recess. Needless to say, this being an old American reel, that no such thing now exists, and I couldn’t find a suitable alternative, so was a matter of making the three myself. Easy enough, make 3 stubs using some scrap (saves time for the crosscut), tap them 6BA, then cut & tap 3 pieces of stainless, screw them into the stubs (by holding the cut ends in the lathe and screwing the stubs onto them), turn the heads to the desired shape and cross - cut them on the mill to make the slots using a slitting saw. Polish & Bob’s your uncle. The reason for the wide diameters on these screws is so that, when slid forward in the slots, the head still covers the ends of the holes nearest the centre.

View attachment 58516
The 3 Faceplate screws & their mandrels

I turned the 3 holes in the faceplate into slots for the screws on the mill and made 3 latches & fitted together. I used brass for these because it doesn’t rust, and I didn’t fancy the potential wear & corrosion issues if I had used stainless in an Aluminium groove.
View attachment 58517
Fitted with the latches just protruding

I copied NJM’s photos for the 2 ratchets & worked out where they’d go on the backplate & brake drum. 20 minutes cutting, filing & drilling produced the 2 ratchets. Because I was so bothered about the top one, where there was no apparent spring working properly, I fitted this one first, looping a spring from a pile of “old stock” around the spindle and back onto a bolt under the ratchet pawl, and my assumption about how this worked proved correct – Halleluiah! That had been bothering me for a couple of weeks & I just had to know.
View attachment 58518
Here’s the main anti-reverse ratchet being test fitted to the brake drum – using a drill as a temporary “will it work?” pivot.
View attachment 58519
And this is the inside of the brake drum showing the spring wrapped around the spindle and secured to the ratchet at each end. It worked really well, the “click” is consistent and quite distinctive.

The “Poachers” click ratchet was offered up to the wheel, and centre marked for the on-off knob after I worked out how much movement the knob needed to produce – It’s an eccentric that lifts the ratchet from the wheel to make it silent when the Enormous Salmon runs. A small, fiddly spring was made to keep the ratchet engaged when permitted by the on/off knob. The knob on the outside for it is just a piece of hex ally that was turned to size, drilled, cross drilled & knurled – Knurling is pretty & shiny, so here’s some picture of it happening-
View attachment 58520
The Ally knob with the knurling wheels either side of it.
View attachment 58521
Knurled knob cross drilled & tapped 8BA for a securing grub screw, still attached to its parent piece of hex bar. This was fitted to the eccentric with a small “O” ring underneath to give some resistance & stop it turning freely.
View attachment 58522
All fitted, showing the 2 ratchets in place. The click on the centre ratchet is quite loud, but the one on the bottom of the brake drum, which has 36 teeth around it is as discreet as the sound of a nice Swiss clock being wound - it wasn’t designed that way, it just happened.
View attachment 58523
Senior Management carrying out a snap inspection. The parts of the reel can be seen amongst the mess on the bench behind him.

Handle -I thought about doing a complex exercise scaling the NJM’s pictures - for about a second – then thought sod it, I’ll just copy my Cascapedia, so I traced it onto paper, glued it to some stainless, & cut it out. Then it was filed, centres marked & the centre hole drilled & very carefully filed a square to fit the spindle, which was tapped and the 2 screwed together with a thin brass washer under for spacing. Interestingly the curvature of the Bogdan is a mirror image of the Cascapedia, so I went with the Bogdan design. For the counterweight I went with one slightly larger than the Cascapedia – Bogdan’s look a bit bigger, and for the handle I used a piece of Delrin, drilled through, and made a captive screw that would allow 20 thou of end play and loose enough for easy rotation. This is screwed to the handle with a countersunk screw through the bottom of the handle.
View attachment 58524
Pictures of the centre screw for the handle being made & fitted, showing the blank in the mandrel, cleaned up, in the rotary table with the slitting saw set to height, and finally cut.

Now that I know the ratchet in the centre works OK, I decided to case harden it - the pawl is hard stainless, but the ratchet itself mild steel, and in the “Old Days” there used to be a product called “Kasenit” that you dipped red hot metal into a few times, and it gave a reasonably thick case hardening coat to mild steel - perfect for these purposes. However, this has been withdrawn from sale on the grounds it gave off a bit of cyanide when hot (a search on the model engineering forums will find grown men prepared to sell their wives into slavery for just a few ounces of the stuff). There are alternatives, (and I didn’t opt to go with the “home cure” recipe of molasses, charcoal & borax mixed together) and given that my tin of the stuff disappeared years ago, one was procured, and the ratchet heated to red hot, dipped in it, quenched, and the process repeated 4x. The result was pretty good, it’s now certainly harder than a file can get through. Pictured below:
View attachment 58525
That just leaves the spool to complete the construction side of this reel, after which I’m going to try anodising and blackening the faceplates and brake adjusting knob.

What it looks like now:
View attachment 58526

View attachment 58527
For the spool, there is a central tubular spindle that reaches between the top of the gear cover on the front plate (where it is fixed) to the middle of the screw on the backplate, and the spool itself revolves around this this with a slot to interface with the pins on the ratchet on the brake drum and a gear at the other end to mesh with the third gear on the faceplate. I can easily get either end machined OK, but the critical distance between the 2 is really difficult to establish by inside measurement when the whole lot is together. My solution is that I’m going to make up a “sliding” jig with a short piece of the spindle tubing at either end, a dummy spool end with the ratchet interface at one end and dummy spool end fitted with the gear at the other that will slide along a bar in the middle to interface with each end so I can get a dead-on measurement between the ends for the spool. Once this critical measurement is established, the rest of the spool is straightforward. I think.
This thread is class. Fair play 👏
 

Clydebuilt

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I know I've said it before but thanks for sharing.
I love engineering, even better when its small, bespoke ,and dare I say it, DIY projects. Outstanding
 

hawtal

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In awe absolutely brilliant thread I know I am not the brightest but when you started on about Z - Axis I thought God almighty he's going to make a rod now !! thanks for sharing both text and photos are great
 

Lamson v10

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Stunning craftsmanship sir 👌 roll on the next instalment 👍 let me know when your taking orders 😉
 

tcorfey

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Jimmcl, you are truly a talented individual and a master at your craft. My hat is off to you sir.
By the way your senior management looks quite intent on their inspection duties...:)
 

DrPatrickT

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I can’t begin to understand how you’ve done this - even though I’ve I’ve seen all the pictures and drawings. This is precision engineering and a depth of skill there that i can only appreciate in awe. Cant wait to see it finished - maybe a little video of it being wound and the line being pulled off the spool - or would that have us all fainting like Victorian ladies 🤣
 

Jimmcl

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I can’t begin to understand how you’ve done this - even though I’ve I’ve seen all the pictures and drawings. This is precision engineering and a depth of skill there that i can only appreciate in awe. Cant wait to see it finished - maybe a little video of it being wound and the line being pulled off the spool - or would that have us all fainting like Victorian ladies 🤣
Dr Patrick - This isn't really a next part, but I made the ends for the 2 sides this morning & thought it was a good opportunity to show the gearing actually working, (I marked the dummy spool to show it does rotate at about 2:1) & record the 2 click sounds you wanted to swoon over. I stuck it on you tube, you can find it here: https://youtu.be/5VDsO5w0Ozs

Now I have the measurements for the distance between the 2 ends I can crack in with the spool properly.
Jim
 

DrPatrickT

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Dr Patrick - This isn't really a next part, but I made the ends for the 2 sides this morning & thought it was a good opportunity to show the gearing actually working, (I marked the dummy spool to show it does rotate at about 2:1) & record the 2 click sounds you wanted to swoon over. I stuck it on you tube, you can find it here: https://youtu.be/5VDsO5w0Ozs

Now I have the measurements for the distance between the 2 ends I can crack in with the spool properly.
Jim
That's great Jim- I'm so impressed with your skill. I see Senior Management was in the background checking that you were doing a good job :)
 

SalmoNewf

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Wonderful work! Not being niggly, but as an aside, the three large screws on the front plate that hold the reel together do not have straight, “square section“ slots. In the early days almost all Bogdan reels were used only in Canada so Stan Bogdan cut the slots so that a Canadian dime fit precisely in place for dismantling and reassembling the reels. He retained this feature throughout production.
 

Jimmcl

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That's great Jim- I'm so impressed with your skill. I see Senior Management was in the background checking that you were doing a good job :)
He's rarely more than a few feet from me - I hadn't realised he was there, but it was no surprise when you pointed it out.
 

mows

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Wonderful work! Not being niggly, but as an aside, the three large screws on the front plate that hold the reel together do not have straight, “square section“ slots. In the early days almost all Bogdan reels were used only in Canada so Stan Bogdan cut the slots so that a Canadian dime fit precisely in place for dismantling and reassembling the reels. He retained this feature throughout production.
I think Stewart reel screws are designed for a 20p piece
 

Hardyreels

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Nothing I can say that has not already been voiced, I'm stunned. Thank you for taking us through this process, it's been amazing.
 
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