Lordy appears to have given up

Hemmy

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Tweedbeats........Lordy reckons he’s doing no more weekly rants against spinning,killingfish,drop in standards etc etc
He’s concluded that no one is taking any notice or something to that effect
 

Loxie

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I think he was always on to a bit of a hiding to nothing with his rather inflexible desire to impose his choices on everyone else. He can and does impose these choices on his beat but not everyone agrees with him and wants to follow suit. I firmly believe he was entirely wrong in his assumption that Springers breed Springers, autumn fish breed autumn fish etc etc. I believe he is also wrong in his assumption that returning salmon will have any positive impact on future stocks. Indeed his hatred of the Gardo net seems to be based on incorrect assumptions too.

However I think his weekly musings make for good and entertaining reading and it's a shame he's giving up.
 

Loxie

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And of course The Lees never spin!

It reminds me of "Lemon Grey's" Torridge Fishery, where he rants for a few pages on the evils of spinning, before embarking on a chapter about how to do it! Good book incidentally, I would like to have met him.
 

marty31

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And of course The Lees never spin!
Perhaps we should have an editorial from a lesser non-champagne Tweed beat. Now where's Marty31 when you need him!
??
good word on river has it, that when ADH is away and not about! the spinning rods come out! also the same good word says the lees is the biggest "chapping" beat on the whole river
 

ozzyian

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And of course The Lees never spin!
Perhaps we should have an editorial from a lesser non-champagne Tweed beat. Now where's Marty31 when you need him!
??

TBH he'd probably meet with more general approval if he had a bit more empathy for those poor sods having to pay up to catch a fish :) I don't disagree especially with his position on hurling the cutlery but really, he's not in the best position to be taking a high handed stance as I imagine it's a bit easier to exercise sporting purity when you don't have so much riding on your few expensive days of the year.
 

Loxie

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Isn't the main target of his criticism the Junction?

And, I think West Learmouth. I don't know about now but I'm told after 5 Bob and co used be out cranking Johnnies till dark. His lordship did not appreciate fishing opposite that.
 

Elibank

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Well, I like him - never met him but have exchanged emails over the years. Some of his editorials were excellent, the one featuring B*****ks the dog being a favourite. A friend fished The Lees recently, the boatmen were away, and he said that he was great company and spent a lot of time and effort trying to overcome an extremely low river.
 

Handel

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And, I think West Learmouth. I don't know about now but I'm told after 5 Bob and co used be out cranking Johnnies till dark. His lordship did not appreciate fishing opposite that.

The Lees has a rotation with West Learmouth. The real angst is with Cornhill but they don't publish any catch figures.
 

Horsbrugh

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While I am sure A.D.H’s intentions are entirely honourable, with regard to preserving Tweed salmon. I think, that he has failed to take account of the fact that there is absolutely no evidence to back up his claim. He is assuming that Autumn run salmon will produce Autumn running offspring. At present, around 95% of fish are returned voluntarily on Tweed and it is estimated that only 5% of Autumn running fish are caught by anglers. Of the fish that are killed, the vast majority are male. So the conservation benefits of his proposal would be so infinity small they would be totally irrelevant to Tweed stocks.

Unfortunately, I think that a lot of anglers who adopt a total catch and release policy, often feel the need to try and “convert” everyone else to their way of thinking. In the same way that some vegans feel it is their duty to try and persuade everyone else to give up animal products. While I respect everyone’s decision to eat what they want and to return fish as they please, I also expect others, to respect my decision, to eat meat or to take a fish.
One thing I think A.D.H. has failed to understand, is that if the RTC adopted his latest proposals, it would have an adverse effect on a lot of anglers who like to have the choice. Leaving things as they are will not effect anyone and will also make no measurable difference to fish stocks on Tweed.

Spinning in low water, especially upstream on single bank beats, is more an etiquette issue and not something the RTC should be called to legislate on. At the end of the day, individual proprietors are free to adopt any C&R or spinning policy’s they like, on their own beats.
 

charlieH

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At present, around 95% of fish are returned voluntarily on Tweed

Without wishing to get into yet another rehash of the C&R debate, I feel I must correct your figures. According to the RTC annual reports, the C&R rate is running in the mid-80% range - the figures for the last five years 2015-19 have been 80%, 85%, 83%, 87% and 86%. Of the 'Big 4' I think the Tay may be worse (at a quick glance I couldn't find their figures), but the Spey's figures for the same period are 94%, 94%, 96%, 98% and 98% - and bear in mind that the Spey has considerably more association water (where traditionally return rates are lower than on private beats) than Tweed. The Dee claims a 99% return rate for the past few years. In both these cases, I imagine the great majority of the 1 or 2% that are killed are probably 'bleeders'.

As I say, I really don't want to go over the rights and wrongs of C&R, but it cannot be denied that, to those who believe in it, Tweed is clearly lagging behind. Out of every 100 fish caught last year, Tweed fishers killed seven times as many as their Speyside brethren.
 

Horsbrugh

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Without wishing to get into yet another rehash of the C&R debate, I feel I must correct your figures. According to the RTC annual reports, the C&R rate is running in the mid-80% range - the figures for the last five years 2015-19 have been 80%, 85%, 83%, 87% and 86%. Of the 'Big 4' I think the Tay may be worse (at a quick glance I couldn't find their figures), but the Spey's figures for the same period are 94%, 94%, 96%, 98% and 98% - and bear in mind that the Spey has considerably more association water (where traditionally return rates are lower than on private beats) than Tweed. The Dee claims a 99% return rate for the past few years. In both these cases, I imagine the great majority of the 1 or 2% that are killed are probably 'bleeders'.

As I say, I really don't want to go over the rights and wrongs of C&R, but it cannot be denied that, to those who believe in it, Tweed is clearly lagging behind. Out of every 100 fish caught last year, Tweed fishers killed seven times as many as their Speyside brethren.

Sorry, just to clarify, my original post should have said, 95% of fish caught in the Autumn are returned. So we are talking about 5% killed out of the 5% of fish that are caught, a totally insignificant number, from a purely conservation point of view.
It does not surprise me that the percentage of fish killed on the Spey is lower, as I was under the impression that most of the Spey was now C&R only. Maybe I am wrong? The Dee has been for a number of years, so obviously the reported numbers killed are going to be tiny.
 
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lefthandup

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Without wishing to get into yet another rehash of the C&R debate, I feel I must correct your figures. According to the RTC annual reports, the C&R rate is running in the mid-80% range - the figures for the last five years 2015-19 have been 80%, 85%, 83%, 87% and 86%. Of the 'Big 4' I think the Tay may be worse (at a quick glance I couldn't find their figures), but the Spey's figures for the same period are 94%, 94%, 96%, 98% and 98% - and bear in mind that the Spey has considerably more association water (where traditionally return rates are lower than on private beats) than Tweed. The Dee claims a 99% return rate for the past few years. In both these cases, I imagine the great majority of the 1 or 2% that are killed are probably 'bleeders'.



As I say, I really don't want to go over the rights and wrongs of C&R, but it cannot be denied that, to those who believe in it, Tweed is clearly lagging behind. Out of every 100 fish caught last year, Tweed fishers killed seven times as many as their Speyside brethren.
Slightly off topic but along the same theme...
No Spey report last week !
 

007

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While I am sure A.D.H’s intentions are entirely honourable, with regard to preserving Tweed salmon. I think, that he has failed to take account of the fact that there is absolutely no evidence to back up his claim. He is assuming that Autumn run salmon will produce Autumn running offspring. At present, around 95% of fish are returned voluntarily on Tweed and it is estimated that only 5% of Autumn running fish are caught by anglers. Of the fish that are killed, the vast majority are male. So the conservation benefits of his proposal would be so infinity small they would be totally irrelevant to Tweed stocks.

Unfortunately, I think that a lot of anglers who adopt a total catch and release policy, often feel the need to try and “convert” everyone else to their way of thinking. In the same way that some vegans feel it is their duty to try and persuade everyone else to give up animal products. While I respect everyone’s decision to eat what they want and to return fish as they please, I also expect others, to respect my decision, to eat meat or to take a fish.
One thing I think A.D.H. has failed to understand, is that if the RTC adopted his latest proposals, it would have an adverse effect on a lot of anglers who like to have the choice. Leaving things as they are will not effect anyone and will also make no measurable difference to fish stocks on Tweed.

Spinning in low water, especially upstream on single bank beats, is more an etiquette issue and not something the RTC should be called to legislate on. At the end of the day, individual proprietors are free to adopt any C&R or spinning policy’s they like, on their own beats.
You make a lot of sense but upstream spinning, in my opinion, is a disaster, for juveniles or small fish particularly. I think the Fed is wise therefore ( referring to Conehead’s post ). He may not be aware of Fed’s historical problems in Coquet’s tideway when it was closed. On that river in the 50’s/ 60’s, a device called a “ Border Queen “ was devised for snatching: small Mepp blade, barrel-lead body with a type of Bowden cable lashed-up to a large treble ( the inside cable ) - remind anyone of anything ?

The BQ was cast just upstream of a shoal of sea-trout, allowed to sink to bottom, slacken-off line and wait 5 mins then rip through the shoal using a 12’ strong rod.

Once the BQ had sunk, some of the shoal in the tideway would return and lie on top of the slack line. I have one I found so I’ll photograph it and place upon here ASAP. This is what the Feb is up against - losing water down to this abuse.

I hope there is a trend to move to double hooks max in future even with flies.

Have you any back up science upon salmon not breeding like-for-like ?

It seems well-accepted that there is a genetic component for this to occur but modified by environmental factors though I’m happy to defer to your better proof.


007
 
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marty31

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You make a lot of sense but upstream spinning, in my opinion, is a disaster, for juveniles or small fish particularly. I think the Fed is wise therefore ( referring to Conehead’s post ). He may not be aware of Fed’s historical problems in Coquet’s tideway when it was closed. On that river in the 50’s/ 60’s, a device called a “ Border Queen “ was devised for snatching: small Mepp blade, barrel-lead body with a type of Bowden cable lashed-up to a large treble - remind anyone of anything ?

The BQ was cast just upstream of a shoal of sea-trout, allowed to sink to bottom, slacken-off line and wait 5 mins then rip through the shoal using a 12’ strong rod.

Once the BQ had sunk, some of the shoal in the tideway would return and lie on top of the slack line. I have one I found so I’ll photograph it and place upon here ASAP. This is what the Feb is up against - losing water down to this abuse.

I hope there is a trend to move to double hooks max in future even with flies.

Have you any back up science upon salmon not breeding like-for-like ?

It seems well-accepted that there is a genetic component for this to occur but modified by environmental factors though I’m happy to defer to your better proof.


007
Mmm i suppose your never to old to learn! I have lived beside the coquet, fished it! My granda used to fish it all his life! And never heard of either the lure or method before! I know coquet had its problems and the pit bus used to stop at the wheel pool and drop some of the workers off after a hard days work! They used to have trouble with the natural minnow, up at the "grandstand" cast in anchored then left till a fish picked up the line in its mouth! But i suppose every day is a school day! You seem to be very familiar with coneheads posts for a new member?? Welcome to the forum! What rivers and beats do you normally fish? Sorry i shouldn't ask as many questions! Its one of my many faults unfortunately 🤣
 

007

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Mmm i suppose your never to old to learn! I have lived beside the coquet, fished it! My granda used to fish it all his life! And never heard of either the lure or method before! I know coquet had its problems and the pit bus used to stop at the wheel pool and drop some of the workers off after a hard days work! They used to have trouble with the natural minnow, up at the "grandstand" cast in anchored then left till a fish picked up the line in its mouth! But i suppose every day is a school day! You seem to be very familiar with coneheads posts for a new member?? Welcome to the forum! What rivers and beats do you normally fish? Sorry i shouldn't ask as many questions! Its one of my many faults unfortunately 🤣
 

007

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Fortunately Marty, youth is probably on your side.

I have no knowledge of Conehead save the one post and is there some sort of pointless argument about a salmon weight ? Does it matter ?

I fish only for sea-trout these days but I like Alta, Tana and some Kola rivers if I was to return to salmon. I see Tweed as a waste of time and money. Oh, I fish the Conon and Beauly too if I can get a good HEP release pattern.

Many thanks 007
 

marty31

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Fortunately Marty, youth is probably on your side.

I have no knowledge of Conehead save the one post and is there some sort of pointless argument about a salmon weight ? Does it matter ?

I fish only for sea-trout these days but I like Alta, Tana and some Kola rivers if I was to return to salmon. I see Tweed as a waste of time and money. Oh, I fish the Conon and Beauly too if I can get a good HEP release pattern.

Many thanks
Na the tweed is thankfully improving, or at least last season was encouraging as the coquet, and i only wish "youth was on my side" you seem to have access to some good fishing! Lets hope this forthcoming season improves even more! Tight lines for 2021
Regards martin
 

007

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Na the tweed is thankfully improving, or at least last season was encouraging as the coquet, and i only wish "youth was on my side" you seem to have access to some good fishing! Lets hope this forthcoming season improves even more! Tight lines for 2021
Regards martin
Thanks Marty. I can fish good waters alright but only sea-trout on 9’ rods have ever floated my boat. But include small grilse in with sea-trout. I’ve had 5 salmon to 25lbs from: Iceland, Alta, Tyne, Tweed and sea-trout of 13 and 171/2 on Tweed. Three fish well above 25 all lost after long battles mainly: Tweed and Tyne. So I won’t get a 30 now - pity.

Oddly a netsman called me X‘ mas Eve to say that Coquet tideway was full of salmon from Amble to Warkworth Dam. August I think he said: 70odd to Matt Ridley‘s beat. We‘ll not hear the last of this from the EA.

2021 can’t be worse than this year for me. So thanks for your wishes - I’ll be trying.
 
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