Is junglecock important?

Lee95

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Hi everyone, I'm getting back into fly tying and wondering weather or not to buy some junglecock , what do 0eople think is it essential in salmon flies? I know all flies that have worked for me this year didn't have junglecock, Willie gun , octopus, arctic shrimp.
 

Timmins

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It must be !!! Anything that’s costs that much money should be important……….but no 🤣🤣🤣 don’t think the fish know any different it just looks nice
 

iainmortimer

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Jungle cock is only ‘essential’ if you are trying to accurately copy a pattern that uses it.

My own opinion is that on a lot of flies it will never be seen by the fish and so attracts the angler rather than the fish. I also suspect that modern day UV reactive and fluorescent colours are more effective than JC for creating hot spots.

Finally, using substitute faux jungle eyes is akin to eating a wax apple. It doesn’t quite look right and is not something you’ll want to try more than once so just don’t!
 

Craigk670

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Hi everyone, I'm getting back into fly tying and wondering weather or not to buy some junglecock , what do 0eople think is it essential in salmon flies? I know all flies that have worked for me this year didn't have junglecock, Willie gun , octopus, arctic shrimp.
No really some flees it's for show .dress a flea in primary colours it will work most of the time ie Wullie gunn ,cascades etc
 

rotenone

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Hi everyone, I'm getting back into fly tying and wondering weather or not to buy some junglecock , what do 0eople think is it essential in salmon flies? I know all flies that have worked for me this year didn't have junglecock, Willie gun , octopus, arctic shrimp.
No in reality most flies have the junglecock situated in a place that is physically impossible for a salmon to see. But for example on an Irish shrimp it does create a stronger silhouette in the water, but in no way represents an eye from below or behind

From my understanding the field of vision of vision of most salmonoids is an inverted cone of 180 degrees, out side of that there is a mirror reflection of the river bed, in no possible way in that short window can a material high up the sides or on top be seen.

It would need to be placed on the underside, do i use yes but its completely unnecessary. I hope the synthetics improve soon as I only put it on to make my flies look appealing to me.
 

Scierra

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Jungle cock is only ‘essential’ if you are trying to accurately copy a pattern that uses it.

My own opinion is that on a lot of flies it will never be seen by the fish and so attracts the angler rather than the fish. I also suspect that modern day UV reactive and fluorescent colours are more effective than JC for creating hot spots.

Finally, using substitute faux jungle eyes is akin to eating a wax apple. It doesn’t quite look right and is not something you’ll want to try more than once so just don’t!
Exactly Iain.
Many anglers think it is a must to have JC in all the flies , imop the most overrated feather , overpriced capes available, so much so it can make flies similar when you change flies that have jJC to try and lure a salmon
Original patterns , Cascade, Allys, General Practitioner, Wullie Gunns, Stoats Tail, Francis, Munroe Killer etc to name but a few never donned JC, And have all proved effective over the years
I haven't got one fly with JC , just have the confidence to fish without JC on them, your catches will not be no lesser, most prbably resident fish have seen flies dressed with JC previous days to you fishing a beat, give them something different .
If I had to fish with Faux/plastic immitation JC eyes I would pack in fishing ,chronic they are, more so when crease

A salmon will view a fly maybe 50% from the rear, or slightly above its window, no way JC will be seen from these positions . Anglers view their flies in the river from above which the fish will seldom see the JC .

Rear view
My dressings the fish will see some look alike eyes from the rear , look alive, if there were JC dressed they be way out of sight from this angle

Rear orange.jpeg
 

luney

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Hi everyone, I'm getting back into fly tying and wondering weather or not to buy some junglecock , what do 0eople think is it essential in salmon flies? I know all flies that have worked for me this year didn't have junglecock, Willie gun , octopus, arctic shrimp.
No,
 

Fruin

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In a word - No. At least not to catch fish. That said, i think it becomes more important on a relatively bland and slim fly where it adds a "pattern". We know that circles and bars are both patterns that attract fish. Hence, the use of ribs, hotspots etc.
I do not think that a particular pattern is important for catching salmon, more a particular style (profile/weight/colour) on any given day/pool/season. So, you can always catch salmon on a fly without JC and I don't think the JC itself is a particular trigger for a salmon to take.
 

SnapT14

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I've caught more fish on flies without than I have with, by far.

I dont think it is however people may question why I use it as much as I do.

But........I do think flies look better with 🤦
 

Henke

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Some flies I would NOT fish without JC. Others I do not care...Some put JC on Sunrays ! I personally prefer them without...but a tube ala Pathagorva or Green Highlander - I would never use without !!

Does it matter ?...yes to me...but not to the fish.... :)
 
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Jockiescott

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The only 'important' bit of a fly is the hook. Everything else, and I mean EVERYTHING else, is only important to the person tying the material on.

Hackles, wings, tails, ribs, butts, flash... Nothing is important. I still go back to the guy on my river who pulled some sheep's wool off a barbed wire fence and tying it onto a worm hook with maxima and hooking fish.

When I see some of the gin clear rivers that people get the chance to fish in Scotland, I'd probably not use half of the materials that I use on our dirty rivers here. Flash would be completely unnecessary for a start.

So, is there any reason why I would use JC, other than vanity?

I've said before on the forum of tying a dozen Irish Shrimps and had them sticking on a block of polystyrene on the desk.

I went into the shed one evening as it was getting dark and something took my eye on the desk. I couldn't figure out what it was. It was only when I turned on the light, it was the jungle cock eyes on the flies. Out of all the different colours of threads, flosses, seals furs, tinsels and hackles, the only part of the flies that stood out in the dull light was the JC. In our dirty waters here, I have absolutely no hesitation in using JC. I did wonder at the time if colour was important.

On the other side of things, I'm a stickler for following patterns. If a pattern uses JC, I will put JC on it or I just won't tie it. Simple as!
 

Loxie

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I like it but only because I like it, not because I think the fish like it. I catch 90% of my fish on 4 flies and only one has JC. I'm pretty sure it would make no difference if I tied that pattern without it but it looks good to me and I've got some so I might as well use it. I probably wouldn't buy a cape now though as there is no certified source any more and they are stupid money.
 

Rennie

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I don't think it's important at all, I do feel it can enhance certain ( I'll enhance certain! ) flee's. One thing I do know is that its completely over the top expensive! and that by definition excludes its use especially to any one from Yorkshire!
Seriously, I think using it as eye's on tube fly patterns can help, fixed in at the head on either side of the tube seems logical and could be of benefit.
That aside, I agree with whats been said so far, largely superfluous and probably there to merely enhance the tyers ego that they can tie a good neat attractive flee ( he said very jealously! ).
Any one want to buy some Jungle Cock?
Pedro.
 

Sawyer

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I dont use it any more, I found that all the flies my lads "borrowed" from my boxes all had JC in, no JC no more borrowing;) There was a discussion a couple of weeks ago as to why I was no longer tying with it, I did offer to use it if they stumped up the current cost of a cape!
 

Ratman

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Some patterns look best with JC and some better without. I think it's all about maximising confidence. If your 100% confident in what your using you fish better.
 

Sewinboy

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The emperor's new clothes....If your naive enough to believe jungle cock provides an edge, then you probably believe in elfs, unicorns and pixies. Sorry, I don't mean to offend anybody, I really don't, but it's true. I'll get my coat..........
 

Slaneybs

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The first fish I caught was on a Watson's Fancy - the JC showed up really well in the peaty waters of the small brook in flood and ever since then I have been a sucker for flies with JC on them. m
My standard go-to summer/autumn flies are either shrimps or silver bodied flies and pretty much all of them have JC in them. I might not insist on including it in a spring fly but then I probably would if I had a choice - dee sheep look very strange without. I mostly tie on size 6 to 10 or 12 singles so I have built up a fair supply of large unused JC eyes over the years. I probably need to start tying some of Rotenone's big scandi type flies or some mega mixed wing jobs.
 
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