Is jungle cock now scarcer than ever?

Rainclouds

Active member
Messages
213
Reaction score
36
My missing 4 month labrador puppy found her way home last night to the great relief of all family. She was doing great with her introduction to water when she took off after a mountain biker before being scared into the the forest undergrowth by a scrambler coming in the opposite direction. Eight hours later at 11.30pm there was a familiar rattle of the letterbox. Jumped up, opened the door and there she was, still a little nervous but very excited.

Today to prove how much she missed me Daisy managed to get hold of my almost new JC cape. After tidying up the pieces into a Ziploc bag, it seems I haven't lost too many feathers.

I don't need to buy too soon but I had a quick look online after assessing my stock and it seems there is almost nothing available. Are we in for a major shortage then? As much as I like the real thing, I have paid about as much lately as I am happy to pay. I have noticed poorer quality nails look much better when dyed so using dyed nails a bit more would give the option of buying lower grade but there are no bargains.

If prices go up, I think it is time to look at synthetic subs. Maybe paint your own on badger hackles but this sounds fiddly and time consuming. Certain feathers such as short wide grizzly cock hackles look nothing like JC but serve the purpose well as a nice replacement where the fly would otherwise look bare.

I have some gen 3 Prosportfisher which is very good visually but too stiff to win me over. It is way better than any other subs I have seen. You would certainly need to look twice in smaller sizes which is where this sub shines best.

Mr. Frodin mentions a new offering in prospect in his latest video. I look forward to tring it out.

Are any of you looking to subs?
 

rotenone

Well-known member
Messages
1,097
Reaction score
172
My missing 4 month labrador puppy found her way home last night to the great relief of all family. She was doing great with her introduction to water when she took off after a mountain biker before being scared into the the forest undergrowth by a scrambler coming in the opposite direction. Eight hours later at 11.30pm there was a familiar rattle of the letterbox. Jumped up, opened the door and there she was, still a little nervous but very excited.

Today to prove how much she missed me Daisy managed to get hold of my almost new JC cape. After tidying up the pieces into a Ziploc bag, it seems I haven't lost too many feathers.

I don't need to buy too soon but I had a quick look online after assessing my stock and it seems there is almost nothing available. Are we in for a major shortage then? As much as I like the real thing, I have paid about as much lately as I am happy to pay. I have noticed poorer quality nails look much better when dyed so using dyed nails a bit more would give the option of buying lower grade but there are no bargains.

If prices go up, I think it is time to look at synthetic subs. Maybe paint your own on badger hackles but this sounds fiddly and time consuming. Certain feathers such as short wide grizzly cock hackles look nothing like JC but serve the purpose well as a nice replacement where the fly would otherwise look bare.

I have some gen 3 Prosportfisher which is very good visually but too stiff to win me over. It is way better than any other subs I have seen. You would certainly need to look twice in smaller sizes which is where this sub shines best.

Mr. Frodin mentions a new offering in prospect in his latest video. I look forward to tring it out.

Are any of you looking to subs?
Constantly, but I honestly think they are on a losing battle trying to replicate junglecock they way they are doing it, however a super impressionistic version, with a fl. Paint finish would interest me instead of trying to make a realistic copy.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 

Rainclouds

Active member
Messages
213
Reaction score
36
Constantly, but I honestly think they are on a losing battle trying to replicate junglecock they way they are doing it, however a super impressionistic version, with a fl. Paint finish would interest me instead of trying to make a realistic copy.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
I remember seeing painted feathers on another board which looked great but the link to the thread detailing the process didn't work. It can be done better than anything commercially it seems. I am thinking of a Flooglue base with enamel paints with enough flexibility. Whether we like to acknowledge it or not, a lot of what we buy comes from wild birds, legally mostly I hope.
 

Hardyreels

Administrator
Messages
1,607
Reaction score
161
Location
Alaska
I have used the genuine feathers since the 1970's when I started tying fancy streamers and I have a good supply of the stuff but ............ I also have taken to using the Gen 3 artificial eyes from Pro Sportfisher of Denmark. I like to trim the die cuts a bit before using them and think they look beter trimmed. They are fairly soft and very durable.



I still use mostly real stuff but find myself turning to these more and more, no splits and they are all perfect ......

 
Last edited:

sgellert

Member
Messages
84
Reaction score
56
Location
Denmark
Really pleased your puppy found its way home 👍
Can we see a picture of Daisy ?

And good looking fake JC's :)
Is there a reason for not using Pro Gen3, or is it just because you have a big stock of the Gen2's ?
I think they look more "acceptable" on very colorful flies than the classic flies
Real JC has been pretty much impossible to get in Scandinavia for a very long time.
 

Rainclouds

Active member
Messages
213
Reaction score
36
Lovely labs !
Thanks, Jess is well retired as a working dog and daisy is looking really promising. She is probably the most high energy puppy I have had but she is heeling on and off lead and retrieving to hand.

I have used the genuine feathers since the 1970's when I started tying fancy streamers and I have a good supply of the stuff but ............ I also have taken to using the Gen 2 artificial eyes from Pro Sportfisher of Denmark. I like to trim the die cuts a bit before using them and think they look beter trimmed. They are fairly soft and very durable.

I could be wrong Hardyreels but that looks like G3. Whichever it is it looks perfect on those lovely flies.
 

wormo

Well-known member
Messages
3,917
Reaction score
588
Location
stirling
glad the pup is back safely.
as for JC my eyes are still bleeding from buying two yesterday , both from friends on FB and to be honest I paid less than I could have , its a love hate with it as there's only a limited size that I use like most folk thn its mostly big nails that don't suit the flies i tie
not a fan of the fake stuff may look OK but behaves nothing like it in texture or real colour effect
 

Hardyreels

Administrator
Messages
1,607
Reaction score
161
Location
Alaska
Can we see a picture of Daisy ?

And good looking fake JC's :)
Is there a reason for not using Pro Gen3, or is it just because you have a big stock of the Gen2's ?
I think they look more "acceptable" on very colorful flies than the classic flies
Real JC has been pretty much impossible to get in Scandinavia for a very long time.
Sorry bout that. I corrected the post as it seems I do have the G3 type fakes. I did the post late last night and was too lazy to go have a look at the stuff I have. The flies displayed are for Silver Salmon and I don't think they'll mind the difference. I'm not suggesting that everyone try them or everyone like them. What I'm doing is getting acclimated to the day when I may find a decent cape priced at $285.00 USD which I have seen on the US eBay site. Granted it was thick with good nails and good color but with the postage it would have cost me $290 USD which is £ 235.02 for you.

I like my traditional stuff mind you but I can get by with fakes if need be.
 

sgellert

Member
Messages
84
Reaction score
56
Location
Denmark
I pretty much never tie with JC of any sort, but all this chat about it made me tie a couple with the Pro Gen3, so thanks for inspiration ;)
 

Sewinboy

Active member
Messages
253
Reaction score
28
I’ve never used jungle cock, but I still catch my share of fish. Its there to catch the fly dresser/ angler, not the fish. However, if you feel you “want“ (remember you don’t need) the jungle cock, carry on, but you shouldn’t complain how expensive it is.

I think it would be good if people stopped using it altogether, as the birds are threatened with extinction in the wild. We should also stop using Monkey hair. We as anglers are saying save the salmon, but f@£k the jungle cock and monkeys, they don’t matter. It’s hypocritical.

Anyway, don’t mean to rub anybody up the wrong way....🤭🤭🤭😂 I’m now expecting abuse.
 

Hardyreels

Administrator
Messages
1,607
Reaction score
161
Location
Alaska
I’ve never used jungle cock, but I still catch my share of fish. Its there to catch the fly dresser/ angler, not the fish. However, if you feel you “want“ (remember you don’t need) the jungle cock, carry on, but you shouldn’t complain how expensive it is.

I think it would be good if people stopped using it altogether, as the birds are threatened with extinction in the wild. We should also stop using Monkey hair. We as anglers are saying save the salmon, but f@£k the jungle cock and monkeys, they don’t matter. It’s hypocritical.

Anyway, don’t mean to rub anybody up the wrong way....🤭🤭🤭😂 I’m now expecting abuse.
Ay, once you start talking about rubbing then I have to move the thread to the Lounge :oops:
 

Rainclouds

Active member
Messages
213
Reaction score
36
I could get used to it if the real thing became too expensive. It should be noted wild Jungle Cock are not endangered, they are listed as least concern. I still wouldn't like to fund the shady side of the market. I hate poachers of all hues.
 

Attachments

Hardyreels

Administrator
Messages
1,607
Reaction score
161
Location
Alaska
Those look fine to me, like I said take the fly tying trimmers to them and they can be even better. Agreed they will not be like real but I still like them.

By the way the Gen 3 Pro Sportfisher stuff isn't cheap ....................
 

Jockiescott

Well-known member
Messages
8,516
Reaction score
1,000
I’ve never used jungle cock, but I still catch my share of fish. Its there to catch the fly dresser/ angler, not the fish. However, if you feel you “want“ (remember you don’t need) the jungle cock, carry on, but you shouldn’t complain how expensive it is.

I think it would be good if people stopped using it altogether, as the birds are threatened with extinction in the wild. We should also stop using Monkey hair. We as anglers are saying save the salmon, but f@£k the jungle cock and monkeys, they don’t matter. It’s hypocritical.

Anyway, don’t mean to rub anybody up the wrong way....🤭🤭🤭😂 I’m now expecting abuse.
Again, it comes back to the difference between fishing and tying.

In my weird, introverted mind, these are two completely different things.

I honestly believe that what is put in front of a fish is completely irrelevant and anyone who ties flies and still Catches fish, while scoffing at those that use jungle cock, are just as guilty of being led by fly tying equipment retailers as anyone else.

The guy catching salmon with sheep's wool from a barbed wire fence, tied onto a worm hook with Maxima springs to mind.

Does jungle cock catch more fish? Does lite Brite, or Glo Brite, or krystal hair, or fluoro fibre? Who knows.

I'll definitely be sorry if I can't buy jungle cock in the future as there are patterns I wouldn't even attempt without it. I'll still get my fish too though.
 

Rainclouds

Active member
Messages
213
Reaction score
36
Possibly if my flies came from Ali Baba (have s look for a laugh) I wouldnt exactly be fishless but I like to have full control of what I am fishing with particularly what is on the end of the line. From last season, II have come to the conclusion that long winged flies are a lot more effective than standard in provoking a strike from a fish. I have found double hook flies tied on hook with long wings were a disaster when you compare fish risen to fish hooked.

If you don't think the fly is important though you would have to dismiss all features such as size, profile, colour, contrast, mobility, hook position, sparkle etc etc.

Tying my own flies allows me to tailor the fly to the hook and general tube setup. Im still experimenting and my focus is in tying flies to be rigged with a discrete hook point located at what I believe to be the strike point of the fish. My guess along with general consensus is the mid point of the wing or slightly forward of mid point on a tapered wing is the best place to have the hook point or points. This approach leads to challenges with the risk of the hook fouling and tangling the wing which would put any fish off.

For the above reasons, I tie my own flies and I like to think there is an advantage to be gained. I was speaking to a friend who had been to Norway last year and he told me that standard flies such as cascades wouldn't get a response from fish but their sunray shadows were destroyed by fish they felt pull but didn't land. I saw a picture of the flies and could see problems straight away. Their local contact tied a fly on the bank with a hook and doghair and caught fish, for that reason he suggested the fly was not important.

He could be right but I can't wait for this lockdown to finish to prove him wrong. Nice looking cheeks would add to my confidence in a fly though.
 
Top