Is it a Snap T or Double Spey ?

offshore

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I seem to have the idea that for a double spey you lift up along one wall of a room, trace the rod tip along the ceiling , then drop down along the opposite wall of the room - or you can use a goal post for a similar concept.

But in this clip the caster is sweeping under like a snap T, on his upstream move - but he is stood on the wrong bank for a snap T.

Or have I lost the plot and should stick to spinning.

In any event his line goes out better than mine . My double spey is an inconsistent life-less thing.
 

offshore

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Parts 2 and 3 of the cast is a double Spey. Part 1 looks similar to the 1st part of a snap t ?

Pleased I am not losing my marbles - it looks different somehow, but wasnt sure if it was the camera angle or something. Works well, but may be you cant cast square enough for some places ?

In effect I am sort of dragging my line upstream, whilst this caster is flexing the rod and allowing the rod to do the work as it unloads upstream.
 
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Handel

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The caster is Eoin Fairgrieve and that is not how he teaches the double spey so I suspect that is some sort of "post graduate" addition to the normal cast. For fishing purposes the cast looks very splashy.
 

Rrrr

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Showy offy twitsy twirly double spey. Unless hes trying to keep a heavy sink tip or tungsten tube high in the water that is.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 

Tangled

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Looks like the way Paul Arden teaches a double spey on a single handed rod

 
D

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Sorry T7 , I have to disagree. Your man here is forming his D loop upstream; Eoin is forming his loop downstream in the manner of a double spey.

i don’t think he is - in your vid, river running right to left he snaps/circles the line downstream (right hand up, right hand comes to the downstream shoulder) then sweeps the right hand to the ‘key position’ at his right shoulder (upstream side). He’s facing quite well downstream so looks a bit odd but the line is clearly behind him as we view the picture prior to the forward stroke. It’s a cast I use a fair bit as it’s better that the snap T at lining up the backcast with the forward cast. You need a bit of room behind though - snap t better in a tight spot

PS I should say in my video everything is the same but in reverse i.e. left hand up
 
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offshore

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i don’t think he is - in your vid, river running right to left he snaps/circles the line downstream (right hand up, right hand comes to the downstream shoulder) then sweeps the right hand to the ‘key position’ at his right shoulder (upstream side). He’s facing quite well downstream so looks a bit odd but the line is clearly behind him as we view the picture prior to the forward stroke. It’s a cast I use a fair bit as it’s better that the snap T at lining up the backcast with the forward cast. You need a bit of room behind though - snap t better in a tight spot

PS I should say in my video everything is the same but in reverse i.e. left hand up

Still disagreeing with you T7 - he is sweeping his right hand to the key position and forming a D loop on the downstream side.
 

offshore

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Looks like the way Paul Arden teaches a double spey on a single handed rod


I am going to have to disagree with you too Tangled.

Paul Arden is 'dragging' the line upstream - in the way I do.

Eoin is getting a loop of line to go upstream using the rod manouvre used in a snap-T - whatever the technical term is for that.

It looks more dynamic and appears to keep everything underload - unlike my sad attemts at a double spey.
 
D

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The line is viewed as being behind him/ on the far side of him in other words off his right shoulder. Pause your video at 15 seconds, that could be a still from a single Spey, right hand up. Doesn’t matter where the line is as he’s facing basically straight downstream. But we’ll agree to disagree and you can call it what you like. ?
 

Loxie

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If that's how people are taught to cast these days it's no surprise catches are dropping!!
 

offshore

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Down stream snap t? Possibly

Googled downstream Snap T and came up with 'Reverse Snap - T' ; I think you may have got it.

Didn't know such a thing existed. Maybe Spey lines need a Double Spey action, but this cast is possible with shorter shooting heads.

I will give it a go next time; I never seen to get much distance with my attempt at a DS.
 
D

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Googled downstream Snap T and came up with 'Reverse Snap - T' ; I think you may have got it.

Didn't know such a thing existed. Maybe Spey lines need a Double Spey action, but this cast is possible with shorter shooting heads.

I will give it a go next time; I never seen to get much distance with my attempt at a DS.

it can’t be a reverse snap t or any other downstream cast as he is river right to left with his right hand up. I showed the video to a casting instructor who confirmed I am correct. Not that I’m pedantic or anything;-)
 

offshore

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it can’t be a reverse snap t or any other downstream cast as he is river right to left with his right hand up. I showed the video to a casting instructor who confirmed I am correct. Not that I’m pedantic or anything;-)

Are we agreeing that his D loop is formed downstream of him, on his right shoulder?
 

Hardyreels

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I do it in some situations but couldn't tell you what it is called, I have pled for many years that although I am proficient at casting I do not speak Spey. I've considered various ways to correct this shortcoming; The Rosetta Stone or Babble language learning programs come to mind but a quick search of the websites yielded zero audio programs for Spey so I'll just blither on in my current state :peep:

Ever since I first discovered that the internet hosted websites where Spey casting was discussed I thought there way too much hair splitting going on. I learned to do the casts during the previous century out of need while fishing and then discovered it was way easier using longer rods. Once I crossed that length threshold I found it easier to reach distances I had never before dreamed of when fishing big waters.

When I have real face to face discussions with fellows about casting I advise that they find casts that work for their environmental conditions and not concern over nomenclature. Sounds curt I know but it's how I learned.
 
D

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His D loop is on his right. The river is running from right to left, therefore the line is upstream of him when he delivers the forward cast. A double Spey for example in the same conditions would be performed with the left hand up, rod swept up to the right shoulder and then back to the key position with left hand at left shoulder, d loop downstream to deliver the forward cast.

River Right to left, right hand up has to be d loop upstream of you and vice versa (unless you are casting ‘cack handed’)
 

offshore

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His D loop is on his right. The river is running from right to left, therefore the line is upstream of him when he delivers the forward cast. A double Spey for example in the same conditions would be performed with the left hand up, rod swept up to the right shoulder and then back to the key position with left hand at left shoulder, d loop downstream to deliver the forward cast.

River Right to left, right hand up has to be d loop upstream of you and vice versa (unless you are casting ‘cack handed’)

If you dont mind me saying so, I think you are visualizing these casts with the river running from your right to your left - with you stood on the left bank.

But in the video clip , the caster is facing us, looking at the camera - on the true right bank of the river.

For the caster, the river is running from his left shoulder to his right shoulder. He sweeps the line upstream and then back circling up over his right shoulder, forming his D loop on his right shoulder downstream of him.

I am happy to agree to disagree at this point (if that is necessary), for the greater good.

Casting is better demonstrated, as opposed to described in (many) words.
 
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D

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As I said he’s casting almost directly downstream and standing in the middle of the river so makes things look a bit odd (probably for demonstration purposes) But that cast should be used right hand up from the left bank looking downstream. It’s a modified snap T.

If the cast/positioning was as you described he’d actually be casting somewhere towards the camera. Picture him on the left bank (you can actually see it’s deeper water on the far side than the water close to camera, which may help visualisation) and casting a long line downstream and it hopefully will make more sense

EDIT: in fairness there is a similar downstream version of the cast which is the downstream or reverse snap T mentioned above but that cast is much more of a T shape to line up the downstream anchor with the forward cast and looks quite different when compared to the C shape seen here. If it’s a downstream anchor cast you want then that is a good option as is a circle Spey, although I’m not great at the latter. Must speak to that casting instructor again...
 
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wetwader

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A very dynamic variation of a Double Spey cast. Or however one wants to call it.
I use it quite often river right side in winter fishing for Danube salmon. Just for clarification what it means:
There are heavy and oversized streamers up to 25 cm used on short Skagit Belly’s and sinktips. Those flies can be lifted up this way with a reversed snake much better and placed for anchor more precise compared to a “normal” Double Spey or a PerryPoke for example. Those “flies” play a much bigger part in anchor and resistance compared to salmon flies. If those flies are not placed correctly, the forward delivery is impossible. At least with the rods and Skagit weights I still feel casting fun with...
It’s a river right side situation where a “normal” Double Spey or a quick Snake right hand up is enough for a usual sized fly for salmon fishing.

But hey, Eion Fairgrieve knows what he is doing. He simply likes dynamic casts and casting ! And I am sure, he adapts his casting when fishing.
But if we analyse his cast, it’s possible to put rod and line far upstreams for a very good rod load because all the line is in the air before placing the anchor. Nevertheless he takes care for full water contact of the whole line.
Additional, the snake movement, no matter if reversed or not, adds a lot of dynamic into each cast. In this case not by speed of line, because of the waterborne DS, which takes linespeed away, compared to the airborne Snake as a touch and go cast, but because of the dynamic and rhythm of the casters movements. To say it that way, it’s easier to form a dynamic D-Loop for a good rod load after a dynamic begin of a cast.
 
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