Is Boris our most open corrupt PM ever.

scotsmac1

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With the recent, fiasco of 1 of your teams top members, being linked with receiving massive backhanders from the sale of our Public Land to property developers. Most of us would consider that a crime, and any group involved in it, as organised crime. Also on small bits of info revealed, this was no where near the first time for this Chappy , and nor was this fellow, the only member of the gang to benefit from similar activities.
I think when we look at our recent new peers, who received their seat in the House of Lords, shortly after half a million or upwards was donated to our Borris gang as slightly warped.
For me personally the icing on the cake was the reaction to our man being caught red handed. The Sack, no. We look after our own. Yup , lets change parliamentary law, and make the incident legal. Oooof. Thats good for democracy. Thankfully, some of Borris own gang saw just how wrong this was and voted accordingly.
The outcome of the resigned now politician, on only resigning as his family urged him to leave politics. MMMM. Sorry not having that one. Could be more to do with having to face an enquiry should he remain.
Then our man Borris, on the day Parliament discusses this, dont even bother to turn up. ( above the law comes to mind )
I dont think in my lifetime we ever had such and Openly Corrupt leader and party.
Are they Totally above the law ?
 

ibm59

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Are they Totally above the law ?
No , but they think they are.

Their day in the full glare of the public spotlight is coming.
I suspect it won’t be a comfortable experience for them.
 

Loxie

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I'm not sure he is corrupt per se but he appears to be running a corrupt government. I don't think the problem is limited to his party but there is no doubt his party seems to have far more than its share of wrong uns. He certainly seems either unwilling or unable to challenge the powerful self serving element of MP's in his party and whether corrupt or incompetent he should resign.

The system needs a radical overhaul and there needs to be a far tighter control on second jobs. Working shifts in A&E or as a locum GP is a very good thing but being a full time tax avoidance lawyer in the Caribbean seems close to criminal. I'm beginning to think is better to assume that no second job should be the default unless part of a small number of public interest exceptions specified by Parliament. As said in another thread I would like to reduce the number of MP's dramatically, change the way they are elected and pay them far more as well. There seems to be a rotten core of entitled MPs who just use their job as a cash cow and disregard their employers best interest. Persuading people to vote for the best candidates rather than vote tribally for whichever party they have been indoctrinated to support would make it much harder for parties to reward supporters with safe seats and improve the general quality of candidates but that might be a pipe dream.
 

chriswjx

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Thankfully, some of Borris own gang saw just how wrong this was and voted accordingly.

In their own way... they abstained rather than voting to sack the bugger...

I'm still fuming about the whole Matt Hancock affair... Man's caught cheating on his wife, in a government office, with a woman who is a close school friend, who somehow works in the same department as a low hour per year "consultant" earning 15k of taxpayer money (nothing compared to what these clowns usually earn, but that's OUR money at a salary that's equivalent to an annual salary at minimum wage). He rips apart 2 family (I was told he received an early heads up about the story, woke his family up at 10pm and told them he was leaving them...) and then all his tory chums are saying we should respect his private life and that the real focus is on how those images were leaked! Cap it all off, when he finally goes, it's because he was guilted into it for "breaking covid rules"...

The system needs a radical overhaul and there needs to be a far tighter control on second jobs. Working shifts in A&E or as a locum GP is a very good thing but being a full time tax avoidance lawyer in the Caribbean seems close to criminal.

He was, as a experienced lawyer and former Attorney General, helping advise the VI government on answering the investigation started by the British Government. Would have thought that's a clear conflict of interest... and the only reason why that blatantly illegal is because lawyers - and former AGs - should bloody well know better!

Was saying to the missus about all this last night. Easy fix. MPs should not be allowed to earn more than their parliamentary salary! Your MP working as a doctor a couple of shifts is covered, but concerns over "who an MP is really beholden to" is solved. Not like getting a job at Westminster isn't cushy anyway! 80k per year, not including any ministerial roles. Ridiculous expenses, housing allowance for your 2nd home...
 

Occasional salmon fisher

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Perhaps the day is coming when we need to be governed by computer/artificial intelligence.

Decisions made logically and for the benefit of the country with no scope for self interest or corruption.
 

Hoddom

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Lloyd George openly and publically sold peerages and gongs. He even invented the OBE to sell.
From memory a peerage was 50k
This lot trade honours but don’t have the dignity nor integrity of Lloyd George even. At least he had a price list. BoJo just trades in wallpapers and holiday villas

Certainly the worst bunch ive experienced.
not punishing ministers who bully (Patel)
lying to the Queen
Illegally puerouging parliament
the flat decoration fiddle
bungs for questions
Lying
standing behind Cummings during Barnyard castle
standing behind Handy Handcock

Last weeks disgrace - trying to subvert the system to protect a mate who was shown to have broken the rules - is terrible. A serious attempt at undermining a central pillar of our democracy. It’s even worse in its context though. BoJo is loooking world leaders in the eye at COP saying trust me, come with me, take a huge step To protect humanity. whilst at the same time trying to re write the rules for mates. If that isn’t political incompetence I don’t know what is.
 

Handel

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With the recent, fiasco of 1 of your teams top members, being linked with receiving massive backhanders from the sale of our Public Land to property developers. Most of us would consider that a crime, and any group involved in it, as organised crime. Also on small bits of info revealed, this was no where near the first time for this Chappy , and nor was this fellow, the only member of the gang to benefit from similar activities.
I think when we look at our recent new peers, who received their seat in the House of Lords, shortly after half a million or upwards was donated to our Borris gang as slightly warped.
For me personally the icing on the cake was the reaction to our man being caught red handed. The Sack, no. We look after our own. Yup , lets change parliamentary law, and make the incident legal. Oooof. Thats good for democracy. Thankfully, some of Borris own gang saw just how wrong this was and voted accordingly.
The outcome of the resigned now politician, on only resigning as his family urged him to leave politics. MMMM. Sorry not having that one. Could be more to do with having to face an enquiry should he remain.
Then our man Borris, on the day Parliament discusses this, dont even bother to turn up. ( above the law comes to mind )
I dont think in my lifetime we ever had such and Openly Corrupt leader and party.
Are they Totally above the law ?
The answer to your heading is undoubtedly "no". But if you add the qualifier from your penultimate line and you are a bit younger than me so never coincided with Churchill then the answer to your question is undoubtedly "yes".
 

Rrrr

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I cant bide the bloke but i rekon that alot of them from any party would be at it given the chance. They know they can get away with it and not be brought to task so have their heads in the trough.


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chriswjx

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Last weeks disgrace - trying to subvert the system to protect a mate who was shown to have broken the rules - is terrible. A serious attempt at undermining a central pillar of our democracy. It’s even worse in its context though. BoJo is loooking world leaders in the eye at COP saying trust me, come with me, take a huge step To protect humanity. whilst at the same time trying to re write the rules for mates. If that isn’t political incompetence I don’t know what is.

Equally as well, this is the man who is guiding us to a Post-Brexit future... Regardless of what your view is on the EU as a whole and/or with the various negotiated agreements...

People are willing to take certain shite from their own politicians in their own country, but the idea of them dealing with scummy politicians from other countries? Guess it's a case of better the devil you know...

I cant bide the bloke but i rekon that alot of them from any party would be at it given the chance. They know they can get away with it and not be brought to task so have their heads in the trough.


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100% agree... Unless there's public accountability, scrutiny and oversight, they'll keep doing it!

The whole farce with the suspension anyway! He was found to have broken the rules... His punishment? 30 days suspension and possibly face a recall election?

Think Switzerland has a neat system of referring any big decisions to referendums...
 

peterchilton

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Rrrr

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My main question is..... is it having these traits that allows them to make it to the top in politics or do they start off with the publics intentions at heart and are the traits picked up on the way to the top ?

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happy days

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Find it ironic that he was made Middle East Peace Envoy of all things....
Turned the Middle East into an ashtray tipped it upside down, got a five million quid a year job as peace envoy to the area and is still rolled out by msm to push whatever agenda they have on the table

And is still leader of the Labour Party
 
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Loxie

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My main question is..... is it having these traits that allows them to make it to the top in politics or do they start off with the publics intentions at heart and are the traits picked up on the way to the top ?

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The first question is why do they get in to politics? There are likely to be a few but I'd bet for most it's a power thing. Some intend to use their power for the public good, some for their own good. Some are probably borderline insane honestly believing they are the key to making the world a better place. The job is becoming quite high risk for the reward and that might change things. I wouldn't consider it even if I thought I was qualified!
 

MCXFisher

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My main question is..... is it having these traits that allows them to make it to the top in politics or do they start off with the publics intentions at heart and are the traits picked up on the way to the top ?

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Jeremy Paxman wrote a very good book called "The Political Animal" which looked at the psychology and behaviour of those who went into politics, sought, and in some cases achieved high office. When you look across the span of history you will observe all sorts: there's no one characteristic that is common to all.
 

mows

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He's certainly made the most money out of it!
And Blairs been responsible for the most deaths. And still no weapons of mass destruction found.
Elected on a promise of reform of the house of lords.
With as big a majority as to ensure he could change it.
Yet we still have inbred hereditary peers whos ancestors committed attrocittes on behalf of what ever government of the past, still determining our political future.

Though Gordon Browns pension theft of £120billion so far takes some beating.

It all makes St Nickys missing £600k show her for the small time politician she is.

I think power breeds corruption and it doesnt matter what party you claim to represent.
 

Safranfoer

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Ever...? Probably not. In modern times? I'd say yes. Worse than Blair, even taking Iraq into account. Corruption seems to be habitual for Boris Johnson. He's incapable of operating within the rules, as per the observation of his former house master at Eton, and he tells stupid little lies all the time, like a child. He's been indulged his whole life and career and now we're dealing with the results. But taking into account the fact that people attracted to such positions will tend to have a self-interested streak and so you could point the corruption finger at members of any and all political parties, it isn't just a corruption problem. When paired with his political incompetence and sheer lack of nous - the way he handled the Owen Paterson affair, ordering a 3-line whip then turning about face 24 hours later, all the screeching u-turns we've seen over the last few years - it makes for a pretty shabby leader.

Hopefully the party will realise, there'll be a leadership challenge and someone better at concealing their corruption ends up in charge. It's almost better if we don't know. Can we get some talented deceivers in power, at least...?
 

Safranfoer

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Also, comforting ourselves with 'at least it's not Blair/Corbyn/whoever' is infuriating.

Dear god we should be demanding better.
 

Rrrr

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Also, comforting ourselves with 'at least it's not Blair/Corbyn/whoever' is infuriating.

Dear god we should be demanding better.
I agree. The problem is, how do we demand better ? We have a choice between whos lies we beleive more and in a world of gullable people things wont change.

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mows

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Also, comforting ourselves with 'at least it's not Blair/Corbyn/whoever' is infuriating.

Dear god we should be demanding better.
I think the difference is that Bojo stood as a bumbling, inept, serial adulterer, liar cheat and all round untrustworthy person. And the public voted for him with that knowledge.
And he has delivered as described.
Bliar stood as a hollier than though, modern day saint, who was going to stop all the corruption and make politics a better environment.
And delivered as per Bojo, but also was responsible for the deaths of millions.
 

Hoddom

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And Blairs been responsible for the most deaths. And still no weapons of mass destruction found.

Though Gordon Browns pension theft of £120billion so far takes some beating.
There is an important difference here though. These things, the war and the removal of dividend tax credits from pension schemes were done in open view and were about how they best thought the country should proceed. Both wrong decisions of course (although the SUBSEQUENT failure of funds to invest and funds taking pension holidays really compounded he effects of GB pension raid) but the measures were about how they thought the country should proceed. They were not about trouser pocket lining, rule snapping cons and lies for personal and mates gain and benefit.
 

MCXFisher

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Also, comforting ourselves with 'at least it's not Blair/Corbyn/whoever' is infuriating.

Dear god we should be demanding better.
Corruption is one thing, the stultifying degree of mediocrity is a far bigger threat. Unfortunately that's not new. I well remember briefing ministers in 1997 when Labour swept to power with a huge majority. We assumed that from within that huge pool they would have no problem finding talent: we were wrong and massively disappointed in our hope for energy, ability and the capacity to envision and deliver real change. Beyond a small circle of Brown, Mandelson, Straw and Field etc there were people who thought they were bright and most certainly weren't. As a result all we got was fiddling around the edges and the biggest missed opportunity in 50 years.
 
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