How I Get My Flies Down;

sneakypeter

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Fishing on the Hampshire Avon seldom requires really deep "dredging", even in early season high flow rates, most of the fish get caught in 4-6ft, often fairly steady, slow water, this setup will certainly work there, its only now in the warming water that some fish go deeper, but the reduced flow rates make it easier, plus the water clarity means they will rise a good distance to take a fly.
peter
 

Hardyreels

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In moderate conditions when you still need some depth this has been the easiest way for me to fish. I'm able to leave the same leader rig on each rod throughout the whole season only having to add a new tip when it gets short from changing flies. If using an un-weighted fly for salmon tied traditional fashion I do use a heavier section in the leader like T-14 but when using a weighted fly you can cut back on the leader sections weight. Once you find what is working for you it's a happy thing. I don't run into too many Spey casters where I fish but if & when I do they always ask 'what is that' if they notice the strange looking leader.

I'm amazed by how many folks who use only what is commonly marketed for sinking a fly. As said earlier, they work but for me they took away some of the enjoyment of my fishing. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy having a fish on the line as much as anyone else but there are limits to what I'll use to get there. First and foremost I want the casting side of this to be fun and easy ;)
 

Hardyreels

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Yep, I use perfection loop knots on the mono sections both butt and tippet. The T material I put a braided sleeve on and nail knot some 8 pound mono to hold them fast.

The only complaint I have with perfection loops is that they are not as strong as my knot to the fly and if I have a break it's the whole tippet that is gone. I keep to 15 pound for the tip when fishing salmon and that eliminates all but the break that occurs when snagged to something nasty.
 

sneakypeter

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Hi Ard, just an update, been using your leader setup on the Avon , still with the braid connection , and its working just fine, really good turnover etc. Shown it too some very experienced anglers, and all have been very interested, definitely a big step up on the presentation front, especially in the fast/heavy water scenario.
The braid I,am using is Fireline, relatively stiff, which helps, going to get some in 50lb, just to improve the stiffness factor a tad. The loop knots are far more inobtrusive than those in even 30lb mono, a bit of fine silicon tubing /shrink tubing stops any tag end catching.
Great, innovative setup,
thankyou
peter
 

Hardyreels

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Hi Peter,

I am so happy to hear that you find this method helpful. I've offered the idea to people and have had mixed feedback. A few fellows report that they love the way it works and are knocking the spots off the fish. Others have said little or nothing and a couple were negative. I have secretly thought that most never gave the system a fair trial leastwise I couldn't understand no or negative feedback. Heck, I've been doing this for years with pleasurable results both in my casting and fish catching so having someone tell me it doesn't work either makes me an anomaly or worse.

Keep at it, try different components and find what will work the very best for you in your home waters. :cool::cool:
 

noeyedeer

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Like many on here I've found heavy sink tips and full sinkers a bit of a handful. Just got a new rod and after struggling with an extra super fast 10 foot tip in recent high water, I decided to give this method a go!

The rod is 14ft and casts well with the recommended 9/10 lines. i've been using shooting heads with a Mackenzie float/int 42g, Airflo Rage 39g hover/int plus a Mackenzie Spey 42g.

So I dugout a Vision Ace floating head of 29g normally used with my 12ft #9 3Zone . I'm not experienced but with just 12 foot of mono leader this head did not load the rod and consequently didn't go out so well .

Using Ards system I rigged up 8 foot of 0.4mm mono ( 24 Lb) with 3 foot of T Tip weighing 2.2g then 4ft 20Lb tippet.
This transformed the set up and flew out like a dream, it turned over well and felt like it would be better in wind! Lifting off was easy with no reluctance from the heavy end and it all turned over well.
I played about with upstream and downstream mends which are also easy with the floater being on top. This was in a reasonably strong flow so I have yet to try it in a slow pool with some depth.
Also don't know how it will go on a heavier line more matched to the rod but I'm going to try that on an older/cheaper set up!
 
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derwentboy

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What an interesting thread, asa newbie and virgin salmon fisher this has given me plenty of food for thought for tackling the rivers I fish in Lancashire UK.
I'm going to cut up some sinking leader sections I have and have ago but I've had one further thought...shoot me down if you think it wouldn't work/ is nonsense...
Like you mentioned Ard I'm sick to death of getting snagged...using this system to get your fly close down to the river bed how about using a fly with enough buoyancy built in to it to rise just above the sinking material enough ( abit like stillwater trout anglers use foam boobies with fast sinking lines to present a fly consistently near the bottom and not get snagged) Has anyone tried this? I can think of a particular pool on my river where this could possibly get a sustained length of drift near the bottom ..it was just a thought I had.
 

Wee-Eck

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I fish Boobies on a Wet Cel 2 line with a 3' leader for sea trout on slow pools. Cast 45 degrees downstream. Let the line sink to the bottom and do a slow figure of 8 retrieve. Can be deadly at times.
 

Hardyreels

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Bringing this back from the Thread Graveyard.

I was actually ask to dig this up and breath some life into it. The methods and techniques aren't for everyone but then what is? I linked the video to the bottom of the original post :cool:
 

KILDONAN

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Ard,
I am fairly new to salmon fishing and first read this about 18months or two years ago (it's saved as a book mark now). It made a big impression and have used it as my setup ever since. And happy to say caught fish with it. What l would like to know is how do you adjust for fishing when you need to be just 2 or 3 inches below surface? Do you discard this method all together or do you lighten up the whole system? Just hope this is not a stupid question.
 

Loxie

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I think this is one of the most revolutionary ideas I've seen in salmon fishing. In effect what Ard has developed is a 3D version of greased line fishing. When I started sea fishing from boats we all used heavy mono on our reels. This meant to get down deep we needed enourmous sinkers to counteract the buoyancy and resistance of the line. The introduction of thin braid changed the game and allowed the use of much lighter gear, which lead to a far better success rate. I think this system is on a par with that.

When Arthur Wood developed greased line fishing at Cairnton it wasn't about just fishing the fly near the surface, as is now almost universally considered to be what greased line fishing is, but was about presenting the fly in a particular way. Donald Rudd explains in "Greased Line Fishing..." how Wood had noticed that on a sunk line or a spinning bait fish took at a particular point in the swing more often than at any other and wanted to replicate that angle and presentation accross the whole swing. To do this he realised that line control was key and that the only way to control the line was if it was on the surface and greased line fishing was born. I often wonder, given Wood's phenomenal success with it, why no one uses the technique today.

Ard's system allows the same control of presentation angle, that Wood deemed so crucial, but with the fly fishing at almost any depth. It allows the fly to be fished deeper more easily and efficiently and with full control of both speed and angle as well. If we ever get reasonable Spring and Autumn runs again this technique could revolutionise our cold water fishing experience.

It would also severely reduce the numbers of rods, reels and lines we need. This will make it easier and cheaper for newcomers to join in. I'm not sure the tackle companies would like it though!
 

munro

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Reminds me of how Joe Humphries made leadcore shooting heads for trout streamers, with leadcore of 6" to about 18", although line was straight nylon, without reading through, could you alter tungsten lengths for different depths, or bits of poly leader? Interesting stuff
Greased line is an interesting book.have to look it out have another read
 
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Handel

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I was actually ask to dig this up and breath some life into it. The methods and techniques aren't for everyone but then what is? I linked the video to the bottom of the original post :cool:

There is a separate section called Great Threads or something like that. Why isn't this in there so that it doesn't get lost?
 

Handel

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Ard

I have at last grasped what you are doing here namely solving two separate problems. The mini heads are a really great idea.

I do have a question about the braided double loop. Why did you go for this rather than cut the welded factory loop off the flyline and needleknot/glue on a braided loop just as you have done on the mini heads? My experience of these welded loops is that they unpeel, I have had it happen several times, Rio manufactured ones being the worst offenders.
 

Hardyreels

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Hi Tony,

I can't tell you where to source the materials there at home but your large fly shops should have bulk spools that they sell from.

You can also look for kits for making mini heads. The trick is to have braided loop connectors on the ends of the sinking sections because welded loops on T material will eventually become cut through by the mono sections.

If you use your google skills search up Streamer Fishing Techniques by Ard Stetts and in the beginning few minutes you'll see a whole rig set on a spey line.

I've been busy making mini heads and loops to fill 2 kit orders today so it was funny to see this thread bumped when I came on to have a look at the forum.

By the way everyone gets a congratulations from me because of the very low number of Reported Posts here. That's what usually gets me looking, but I also stop in to check the fly tying threads daily.

The system works or I wouldn't do it, I catch fish and I lose very few flies because I'm not dragging the bottom with 15 foot of T-14 and a weighted fly :)
 

Hardyreels

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Ard

I have at last grasped what you are doing here namely solving two separate problems. The mini heads are a really great idea.

I do have a question about the braided double loop. Why did you go for this rather than cut the welded factory loop off the flyline and needleknot/glue on a braided loop just as you have done on the mini heads? My experience of these welded loops is that they unpeel, I have had it happen several times, Rio manufactured ones being the worst offenders.

Just found this; I'll try to be thorough in answering.

First off I haven't had welded loops peel apart and if that happened I can think of several causes. One would be casts that had a short leader and a very tight loop resulting in nearly a crack the whip effect. The other I've heard of but not seen personally is related to people 'Practice Casting' on lawns.

Now getting to why I don't cut them off and go nail knot or braided sleeve...…… That welded loop is part of what I pay for when I buy lines and if they are properly made they are very strong. Secondly there are times (especially with Spey lines) that we buy a line only to find that after a few times out we don't really like it. If the line is whole, not cut and if the welded loop is undamaged we can often times sell the lines without a huge loss. Many of the lines I've bought run between 90 and 120 dollars retail so if I need to sell one I'd like it if I only lose 25% or so caused by my error.

Does that make sense?
 

Hardyreels

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There is a separate section called Great Threads or something like that. Why isn't this in there so that it doesn't get lost?

I'll move it since you mentioned this.

I don't spend a lot of time visiting my own topics and I guess I should. Sometimes I'd think that it would seem I was about the business of self promoting so I am quiet often. These type of things I post are done in the spirit of sharing, to help those who may see the logic in things I do to understand why I do things the way I do. It's never about talling anyone that I am correct and someone or some other method is wrong, just about presenting something that may be enjoyable for others to try out :)

On second thought, I went to move this thread and saw that it has nearly 11,000 views. I'd say it's being read enough as is but I appreciate you thinking it deserves Great Thread status :cool:
 
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