Horncliffe Pricing - Suck it and See

offshore

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I have no idea how a days fishing is priced these days - pick a figure and hope to find customers with endless optimism I assume; suck it and see I suppose.

I see Horncliffe has posted a fish caught today - the second for the month and a fantastic tenth for the whole season to date (7 months). The price in August is averaging £160 a day, increasing again in September a tad more.

I seem to remember paying £60 a day in July two years ago - and caught and saw nothing when conditions suited that beat (low water).

The problem is the price ratchets up, and rarely come down - setting new benchmarks for the other beats.

It doesn't inspire me to invest in new tackle or encourage other people to take - up the hobby; it all starts to seem a bit silly (for want of a better word).

That's my thoughts for today, if anybody is interested.
 
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D

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Plenty of bargain beats on 'lesser' and not so lesser rivers. I agree with your sentiment though and posted something similar in the spring about £85 a day beats who's monthly average for the last 5 years is the square root of f all. You get a ghillie though!!! (so add an extra twenty quid on top)
 

bros

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I think your bang on mate, this last few seasons I have stopped booking well in advance and when you look at the averages 5 catches how these guys can charge what they do beggars believe in my opinion.

Where to next I ask:confused:
 

Dryfly

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I'm sneaking a couple of extra days fishing in during September. Not a planned thing, just a fishing 'fix' between other things. My dates are flexible so there's a fair amount of availability and I've been looking at price v fish caught. OK, there is more to fishing than just catching, but. Catching, the chance of catching. That IS what fishing is mainly about right? If it wasn't, we'd all go casting down the canal/boat pond and save thousands, right? So, yes price will include a reflection of the location, its beauty, the history of the place (perhaps?) etc. But, it is for many of us I suggest the chance of a fish that is a key driver when picking a place to go.

Going through fishpal I find it almost impossible to correlate price with fish catch history. The Tweed for example. The prices there are crazy compared to other rivers. Over £400 a day for a beat that catches less than 10 fish per rod month? Perhaps you might fancy your chances on a cheaper Tweed beat. Say £90 a day for a beat with an average catch of 0.73 per rod month.... OK, fishing the Tweed. There is something about it. I mean, you know. Its the Tweed right?

Please.

Some of these 'big' rivers are just pushing their luck as far as they can before it breaks. They know it cant last. Five year averages in two years time will, I suggest, break the hearts and willingness to open wallets of many rods. When you can get a rod on a beat with an average of 0.5 fish per rod month on a less fashionable river as I did this spring for £300 (and that's for 4 day a week access for a 3 month spring season), these ludicrous rip off prices cannot last if catches carry on in line with current trajectories. Beat owners know this and are cashing in before their licences to print crisp £20 notes are revoked by catch realities.

You make your choices and pay what you want for sure. Maybe I'm a cheapskate but don't forget to look to clubs and associations for your fishing where there is great value for money to be had, good fishing and sensible prices. Where you can get a years fishing for less than half a day on some beats. Where, if you want to you can meet mates, get involved and became part of something.

We are being ripped off, taken for a ride and some beat owners must be laughing the heads off if it wasn't for the fears that their cash cows may be drying up and their capital investment value under serious threat.

There must be some economists out there who can help. If fish stocks do continue to decline, whats the supply and demand curve look like. Less fish, higher and higher prices or is there a marginal utility point when we say, 'How kin much?' and go stockie bashing.

Anyone know of any fish farms that are open to rods? Won't be long now. Louch Duart Salmon fishery.... Guaranteed a liced fresh'un every trip or your money back.......... Quality guaranteed by the Soil Association etc

I leave you with..... currently available on FishPal today........ a 9 rod beat with a five year average of 2.6 fish for the month, that's less than one third of a fish caught per rod for a whole months fishing while fishing day in day out (thank god for having Sunday off!) An absolute snip at £84 a day. Join an orderly queue? I think not.
 

Loxie

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There is good fishing to be had at a reasonable price if you know where to look. Not on Fishpal as a rule. I had Scottish trip recently where the total cost; travel, accomadation, fishing, food, booze, a cook and tips came to around £65 per salmon landed.

There is good value fishing in Wales and the West Country, as well as the North East. I'm a member of a club which costs £35 per year! I fully expect to get a few sea trout, some good brownies, the odd salmon and occasional bass. A friend of mine once had 16 good sea trout in April alone on it.

My advice is don't just look at Fishpal or any other electronic booking system but get some local knowledge by researching the old fashioned way. As long as people pay £400 for a rod day people will charge it.
 

charlieH

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A few observations.

First, it must be said that Tweed prices have for a long time been something of a law unto themselves. There are a number of reasons for this - accessibility is one, and the length of the season (particularly at the back end, when there are fewer other options) is another. Those factors still apply. But 10-40 years ago, Tweed back end fish were often big, strong 2SW fish which, with the benefit of a full summer's feeding, had packed on the weight and would typically be well into the teens of pounds. Sadly, in more recent times (and perhaps in anticipation of a cyclical revival of spring runs) those fish seem to be less common, and it seems that increasingly it is 1SW fish, usually less than 10lb, that form the bulk of the autumn run. Whether Tweed prices can be sustained on the back of what is really just a run of big grilse remains to be seen.

But Fishpal itself has undeniably been a factor in deliberately pushing up prices. In trying to persuade fishery owners to use their services, they made considerable play of increased rents. A commonly used line, I'm told, was 'If you've got a waiting list you're not charging enough'! Thankfully, some beats that had traditionally let by the week didn't succumb to this siren call. And I think that if you look at what has happened to the Dee's lettings, you can see the downside of going over to day lets. It's much easier for a rod to walk away from odd days here and there than it is to give up a prime week on a prime beat. I'm afraid that a policy of chasing quick-buck day lets, instead of building relationships with long-term tenants, will have come back to bite some fisheries on the bum. But "Those who live by the sword die by the sword" isn't a new expression!

Secondly, opening a fishery up to day rods inevitably widens the market. Not everyone likes, or is able, to take a full week's fishing as used to be the norm. So enabling people to take a day or two here and there means there are more potential buyers for the same number of days' fishing. And the market will do what markets always do.

Finally, I think it must be acknowledged that day lets place an additional burden on the fishery. There is more administration, not only in the office, but also for the gillie on the riverbank. And there is also a greater risk of odd days going unlet. It's no coincidence that some places charge a premium for Saturday rods; there are plenty of people who can fish at the weekend, but getting rid of a single midweek rod may be a different story. So I think that we must accept that some of the premium for day rods is justified.

The policy of day lets, particularly as promoted by Fishpal, does have its benefits. But it will almost inevitably mean that, on a per day basis, your fishing works out more expensive either than taking a full week (preferably for a full party), or joining a local syndicate or association. Rather than moaning about it, the option is simply not to take day lets at inflated prices, and to fish elsewhere (almost certainly not on Tweed!). In August and September there should be other options available. And being left with unlet fishing will be the quickest way to focus the owner or agent's mind on what is a realistic price for what they have to offer!
 

offshore

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Thanks for the replies on this. I agree with many of the comments made - probably all of them.

I just thought I would post this up before the new higher prices become accepted as the norm - the going rate.

I have already voted with my feet by not even considering booking. I suppose a few rods will catch it just right, and when those fish are reported others will get sucked in.

Never mind, its only a hobby and nobody is forced to go. Just do something else instead is the answer I suppose.
 

porteouz

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A few observations.

First, it must be said that Tweed prices have for a long time been something of a law unto themselves. There are a number of reasons for this - accessibility is one, and the length of the season (particularly at the back end, when there are fewer other options) is another. Those factors still apply. But 10-40 years ago, Tweed back end fish were often big, strong 2SW fish which, with the benefit of a full summer's feeding, had packed on the weight and would typically be well into the teens of pounds. Sadly, in more recent times (and perhaps in anticipation of a cyclical revival of spring runs) those fish seem to be less common, and it seems that increasingly it is 1SW fish, usually less than 10lb, that form the bulk of the autumn run. Whether Tweed prices can be sustained on the back of what is really just a run of big grilse remains to be seen.

But Fishpal itself has undeniably been a factor in deliberately pushing up prices. In trying to persuade fishery owners to use their services, they made considerable play of increased rents. A commonly used line, I'm told, was 'If you've got a waiting list you're not charging enough'! Thankfully, some beats that had traditionally let by the week didn't succumb to this siren call. And I think that if you look at what has happened to the Dee's lettings, you can see the downside of going over to day lets. It's much easier for a rod to walk away from odd days here and there than it is to give up a prime week on a prime beat. I'm afraid that a policy of chasing quick-buck day lets, instead of building relationships with long-term tenants, will have come back to bite some fisheries on the bum. But "Those who live by the sword die by the sword" isn't a new expression!

Secondly, opening a fishery up to day rods inevitably widens the market. Not everyone likes, or is able, to take a full week's fishing as used to be the norm. So enabling people to take a day or two here and there means there are more potential buyers for the same number of days' fishing. And the market will do what markets always do.

Finally, I think it must be acknowledged that day lets place an additional burden on the fishery. There is more administration, not only in the office, but also for the gillie on the riverbank. And there is also a greater risk of odd days going unlet. It's no coincidence that some places charge a premium for Saturday rods; there are plenty of people who can fish at the weekend, but getting rid of a single midweek rod may be a different story. So I think that we must accept that some of the premium for day rods is justified.

The policy of day lets, particularly as promoted by Fishpal, does have its benefits. But it will almost inevitably mean that, on a per day basis, your fishing works out more expensive either than taking a full week (preferably for a full party), or joining a local syndicate or association. Rather than moaning about it, the option is simply not to take day lets at inflated prices, and to fish elsewhere (almost certainly not on Tweed!). In August and September there should be other options available. And being left with unlet fishing will be the quickest way to focus the owner or agent's mind on what is a realistic price for what they have to offer!

Pretty much everything you've just said in relation to fishpal applies to any other river which is on fishpal and they don't seem to have the same rates for beats with poor catches.

I think its more to do with one of your first points, Location.
 
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chrishconnolly

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Suck it and see

Well dare I say it join an association or club and have the ability to be able to choose to fish when the water is right.
I fished the lower Tay last night and alas no fish were caught but so refreshing to find that even the osprey couldn't catch anything even though he must have dived more that 6 times in the time I was fishing.
Perth and District have some great fishing available at a very small outlay and one of our beats managed the largest fish in the river on Tuesday.
No we don't have a huge number of fish caught each year but enough to keep the members happy great value for money and The Tay is pretty much accessible from most areas in Scotland for a days fishing.
Right back to writing up my next angling course for youngsters.
Tightlines to all and I hope we get a good autumn run.
 
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