Henrik's New Range

jimmy 84

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Well i dont think its that easy .i use a rio afs 9/10 at 38g and a g2 9/10 at 42 g, they are both 9/10 but the weight is distributed differently in them, they both work very well on my 9# rod yet are 4g different

Ok, so if you were to do away with the labelling #9/10 on both lines so you have a 38g and a 42g line like you say they both work on your rod for you but I might not get on with them, I might like for example a 35gram line. My point is if I wanted to buy a line I could look for the weight in grams as a starting point to try a line instead of trying your luck with a line in the #9/10 window. I do agree its not that simple and nothing is better than spending time with a good casting instructor. But for me when I changed to weighing my shooting heads and then using the Zpey heads my casting improved. All my heads including my Skagit heads weigh in the window marked on the rods. Some have different taper profiles like yours do but I don't notice a big of difference in the way they work TBH.

Jimmy
 

jimmylong

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Ok, so if you were to do away with the labelling #9/10 on both lines so you have a 38g and a 42g line like you say they both work on your rod for you but I might not get on with them, I might like for example a 35gram line. My point is if I wanted to buy a line I could look for the weight in grams as a starting point to try a line instead of trying your luck with a line in the #9/10 window. I do agree its not that simple and nothing is better than spending time with a good casting instructor. But for me when I changed to weighing my shooting heads and then using the Zpey heads my casting improved. All my heads including my Skagit heads weigh in the window marked on the rods. Some have different taper profiles like yours do but I don't notice a big of difference in the way they work TBH.

Jimmy

AH ,But then you would have to wipe off the line recommendations on all the rods in the world and replace them with casting weights in grams !!
and who,s to say i would like my cross s1 14#9 with a 30g line that Zpey class as a #9, in fact i know i wouldnt like it.
i doubt i would like it with the zpey so called#10 at 36g either .
the debate could go on and on'
But rio have an excellent page on their spey central site that has most of the modern rods listed and what lines they recommend for both average and advanced casters ,It really is very good
 

jimmy 84

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AH ,But then you would have to wipe off the line recommendations on all the rods in the world and replace them with casting weights in grams !!
and who,s to say i would like my cross s1 14#9 with a 30g line that Zpey class as a #9, in fact i know i wouldnt like it.
i doubt i would like it with the zpey so called#10 at 36g either .
the debate could go on and on'
But rio have an excellent page on their spey central site that has most of the modern rods listed and what lines they recommend for both average and advanced casters ,It really is very good

Yes, but the manufacturer should be able to tell you that as they have already placed the rod into a window of recomended casting weights, the rest depends on your casting style and what line weight suits you etc.
If you brought a Zpey line in a #9 marked up like this, then like you say it would be too light and this is insactly my point! If the line was marked up as 30grams you wouldn't waste your money on it in the first place.

I agree the Rio web site is useful place to start and i see alot of there shooting heads are marked up in Grains as are their Skagit lines. But it is trial and error unless you get the help of a good casting instructor under the exsiting system. Grams or grains is better than what we have now.

Jimmy
 

Springer

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I do believe that Henrik's system of selling the lines in grams is far better than the AFTM system that not all manufacturers stick to. If all lines were sold with the weight in grams it would be a lot more use to someone whatever there skill level than a line marked up in the AFTM system way

Ive wrote more technically about gram weights and weight distribution on here already so I wont repeat it all again but bear this in mind, I can give you two different shooting heads but both for example will have a nominal 42' long head, both will be floaters

The first one will weigh 38g

The second one will weigh 46g

The first one will load your rod much deeper than the second for the same expended energy on your part

Now explain to me how gram weights on shooting heads alone make things any easier for the average punter?
 

jimmy 84

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Gram weight alone will not suddenly make things better for your average punter. I apologise if i was coming across that way. However it gave me a starting point and improved my casting and for that reason I believe it to be an improvement on the current system.
I'm sure after advise from an instructor anybody could use the information they gets in a more precise way when selecting a line to buy.

I'm not saying its the end of the problem, As i'm sure you will agree every caster is slightly different and prefers a different setup.

Out of interest Springer what would be your preferred way of labeling rods and lines? If you don't mind me asking.

Jimmy
 
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charlieH

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Ive wrote more technically about gram weights and weight distribution on here already so I wont repeat it all again but bear this in mind, I can give you two different shooting heads but both for example will have a nominal 42' long head, both will be floaters

The first one will weigh 38g

The second one will weigh 46g

The first one will load your rod much deeper than the second for the same expended energy on your part

Now explain to me how gram weights on shooting heads alone make things any easier for the average punter?

Would these two examples be real world, commercially available lines? I understand the significance of weight distribution as well as overall weight, but wonder how much variance there is in practice.

As a separate but related point, I also wonder how accurate one needs to be in terms of finding a comfortable weight. A few years ago everyone seemed to be heavily into finding exactly the right weight of shooting head for their rod and casting style, and the forum was full of advice about trimming shooting heads back, a few inches at a time, to fine tune them. All of that seems rather out of fashion now, and most people seem rather more relaxed about precise weights. I've always thought that most people can probably cope with a variance of, say, 10% without too much difficulty, and a good caster can happily handle rather more than that. But perhaps that's a subject for a separate thread.
 

Springer

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Out of interest Springer what would be your preferred way of labeling rods and lines? If you don't mind me asking.

Jimmy

I dont mind at all Jimmy.

I dont really have a preference as both the AFTM and gram weight options are at best only a rough guide. The point I was making is that grams are absolutely no better than AFTM, in theory its sounds easier but in practise its no better at all.

Im all for making things easy to understand, it would make my job teaching others easier but I dont see an easy answer or even an answer at all to this problem. The only way I could see any standardisation and accurate matching of rods and lines would be to send every rod and line to some sort of standard proof house where an independent assessor with casting and rod design experience rated everything. All manufacturers would then have to accept this and label their products accordingly. Of course this would never happen as confusion makes manufacturers more money in repeat rod and line sales.
 

Springer

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Would these two examples be real world, commercially available lines? I understand the significance of weight distribution as well as overall weight, but wonder how much variance there is in practice.

Yes, these are real world commercially available examples.

As a separate but related point, I also wonder how accurate one needs to be in terms of finding a comfortable weight. A few years ago everyone seemed to be heavily into finding exactly the right weight of shooting head for their rod and casting style, and the forum was full of advice about trimming shooting heads back, a few inches at a time, to fine tune them. All of that seems rather out of fashion now, and most people seem rather more relaxed about precise weights. I've always thought that most people can probably cope with a variance of, say, 10% without too much difficulty, and a good caster can happily handle rather more than that. But perhaps that's a subject for a separate thread.

I think there is an element of truth in this but the tolerable variance can often have a lot to do with rod action as well. Stiff/fast rods are less tolerant than rods with a deeper action. Again some casters are capable of fine tuning their own input to that of the line weight to achieve appropriate rod loading.

In my experience, shooting heads are far more forgiving to being under or over-weight, as lines get longer it becomes more important to get nearer the right place.
 

Springer

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I tried a 14'6 Instinct last week, hopelessly under-rated. They say 32-34g on the rod and the respective Zpey line wouldn't bend it, far too much effort to get a line out.

42g AFS sorted it out! :D
 

(Smolt)

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I tried a 14'6 Instinct last week, hopelessly under-rated. They say 32-34g on the rod and the respective Zpey line wouldn't bend it, far too much effort to get a line out.

42g AFS sorted it out! :D

I would love to see some of these Scandi lads casting in the flesh and see what they achieve with these light lines, I cannot fathom it myself sometimes. I know Henrik is all into using the momentum of his body to pre load the rod before he actually makes the forward stroke. I would love to see the distance he achieves and the ease of use with these light lines though.:confused:
 

Springer

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I would love to see some of these Scandi lads casting in the flesh and see what they achieve with these light lines, I cannot fathom it myself sometimes. I know Henrik is all into using the momentum of his body to pre load the rod before he actually makes the forward stroke. I would love to see the distance he achieves and the ease of use with these light lines though.:confused:

Ive seen them Liam and its not what you might think. If they need distance they often resort to an overhead cast where the lighter line loads the rod a bit more. There is plenty evidence in his films that Henrik does this, he also advocates fishing short lines wherever possible.

Not all scandi's advocate these light lines. I remember guiding Jan Erik Granbo on the Tyne about 5yrs ago and he was chucking 44g of power taper on his 15' LPXe. He could get all the distance he needed with a spey cast.
 

jimmylong

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I tried a 14'6 Instinct last week, hopelessly under-rated. They say 32-34g on the rod and the respective Zpey line wouldn't bend it, far too much effort to get a line out.

42g AFS sorted it out! :D

How did you rate the rod once you had lined it to your preference?
Is the handle to your liking?
 

Springer

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How did you rate the rod once you had lined it to your preference?
Is the handle to your liking?

The rod was OK, nothing special.

The second generation handles are certainly better than the first ones as they are getting nearer being straight but I see no advantages to them in any way at all.
 

rrw35

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"You guys are obviously a bit sheet if you cannot load zee rod. It's all in zee body rotation.":D:D

 

Eminem

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I tried a 14'6 Instinct last week, hopelessly under-rated. They say 32-34g on the rod and the respective Zpey line wouldn't bend it, far too much effort to get a line out.

I'm going to stick my neck out a wee bit and say try an Infinity or a new HM Signature both of which had much more "Henrik" input than the early Instinct. Hopefully you'll like them a bit better although a bit light for your manly preferences ;)

I wasn't keen on my Instinct and didn't hang on to it for too long. :eek:

Going to try out the new Zpey stuff on 21st April hopefully, demo day in Abdn and the "big man" himself may even show.....:cool:
 

(Smolt)

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Ive seen them Liam and its not what you might think. If they need distance they often resort to an overhead cast where the lighter line loads the rod a bit more. There is plenty evidence in his films that Henrik does this, he also advocates fishing short lines wherever possible.

Not all scandi's advocate these light lines. I remember guiding Jan Erik Granbo on the Tyne about 5yrs ago and he was chucking 44g of power taper on his 15' LPXe. He could get all the distance he needed with a spey cast.

Well that's put my mind at ease a bit! :)
 

kgm

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I'm going to stick my neck out a wee bit and say try an Infinity or a new HM Signature both of which had much more "Henrik" input than the early Instinct. Hopefully you'll like them a bit better although a bit light for your manly preferences ;)

I wasn't keen on my Instinct and didn't hang on to it for too long. :eek:

Going to try out the new Zpey stuff on 21st April hopefully, demo day in Abdn and the "big man" himself may even show.....:cool:


Just got an email from Somer tackle shop....

Henrik Mortensen from Zpey Tackle will be attending Our Casting Open Day on the 21st April at Riverside Drive, Aberdeen.

He will be joining, Scott MacKenzie, Hywel Morgan, John Henderson, Paul Richardson, and Mads Pedersen.
 

rrw35

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I can imagine it must be fun at some of these demonstrations for Henrik with some of the line nerds.....:D:D

"Mr Mortensen, I measured the head length on your 8.5m compact, it's actually only 8.3m, so your technical assertions on your website appear to be flawed assertions or possibly typographical error, but i'll allow slight deviation for the fact that the welded loop accounts for 27mm of it's length, but my conclusion, ultimately, is your recommendations are erroneous"..

 
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