Good to see Ian Gordon back in the saddle again !

wormo

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This man has plenty of knowledge and experience, will be interesting to see what he has come up with.
i know the cadence brand make very good coarse gear at realistic prices I follow their vids on utube
 

Scierra

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The Thurso ones a bit better, a bit too much waffling for my liking in the spey one :)

Thurso Video (y)
I couldn't fish with a Labrador strapped to me fishing ? just as well Gordon was there to net & release the fish . otherwise the lab would of ended up in his net :LOL:
Ian gave nothing away on the snake roll casting ?
 

offshore

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I am obviously misunderstanding, but Ian Gordon seems to finish his forward casting stroke with the rod horizontal after one continuous forward move.

I thought you were meant to accelerate to a stop in the forward stroke at around the 10.30 position, and then lower the rod as the line 'unfurls' (?) I must have misunderstood.

I enjoyed watching both the Spey and Thurso Videos, but Ian Gordon appears a bit semi-detached from it - as though he is unconvinced and has bigger fish to fry (no pun intended). The other chap seems to be genuinely enjoying himself. Just my take on it.
 

Lewis.Chessman

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I was fortunate enough to cast one of Cadence's prototypes when James was with us on the Thurso about a month ago and frankly I was blown away. The rod suited me to a tee; light, accurate at distance and a real pleasure to cast. So much so that I've promised myself one when the models are released onto the market. That'll be the first new rod I'll have bought in about 8 years, the last being the Vision GT4 Catapult 14 ft. I don't part with my money easily but was so impressed I put my name 'on the list'.

The 'other guy' with Ian is James Robbins who developed the Trion range for Shakespeare before redesigning the Oracle d-h range which so many of us admire. I also cast an Oracle that day and, respect them though I do, the Cadence was far, far superior. I've no vested interest in expressing my opinion and I get to cast a fair range of rods over a season - but this, I thought, was special.
 

Scierra

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I was fortunate enough to cast one of Cadence's prototypes when James was with us on the Thurso about a month ago and frankly I was blown away. The rod suited me to a tee; light, accurate at distance and a real pleasure to cast. So much so that I've promised myself one when the models are released onto the market. That'll be the first new rod I'll have bought in about 8 years, the last being the Vision GT4 Catapult 14 ft. I don't part with my money easily but was so impressed I put my name 'on the list'.

The 'other guy' with Ian is James Robbins who developed the Trion range for Shakespeare before redesigning the Oracle d-h range which so many of us admire. I also cast an Oracle that day and, respect them though I do, the Cadence was far, far superior. I've no vested interest in expressing my opinion and I get to cast a fair range of rods over a season - but this, I thought, was special.
Lewis . I have just done a search on Cadence salmon rods , just to see their range though , Nothing online at present ?
 

charlieH

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I am obviously misunderstanding, but Ian Gordon seems to finish his forward casting stroke with the rod horizontal after one continuous forward move.

I thought you were meant to accelerate to a stop in the forward stroke at around the 10.30 position, and then lower the rod as the line 'unfurls' (?) I must have misunderstood.

I can't claim to be an expert caster, but I think it's partly to do with the quantity of line that he's shooting.

Remember that Ian comes from a traditional speycasting background, and therefore tends to favour longer heads (he was, after all, involved with the very first iteration of Carron lines). In those videos I think he's not generally stripping in more than 4-5 arm-lengths of line between casts. At the risk of stating the obvious, if you want to achieve the same length of cast with a 40' head as with a 60' head, you need to shoot an additional 20' of line into each cast. In order to shoot all that extra line, you have to give it more flight time. And when you're shooting more line the laws of gravity also require you to throw it at a higher angle, so there's sufficient flight time for the cast to unroll before it hits the water. At the opposite extreme, think how low you can aim a cast if you shoot no line at all.

Some people will tell you that when you're casting with an adverse wind, it's advantageous to use a shooting head. IMO the reverse is the case - and I think that most instructors, even those who are strong advocates of shooting heads, would agree. The way to reduce the effect of wind on your cast is to minimise the exposure to it. That means A) reducing the flight time, and B) keeping everything close to the water where the wind will have less effect. Both of those are achieved by reducing the amount of line you shoot.

Ian's background as a gillie means that he's well versed in the art of delivering a fly effectively and economically in all conditions, not just throwing pretty loops on a pond for spectators to admire with little or no wind. As such, he will allow just enough flight time for the cast to unroll, but no more. He's not trying for maximum distance either. Ian can do the tournament casting thing, (he is a past winner of the CLA Game Fair competition, which used to be regarded as the premier speycasting competition), but I think these films show him in more of a 'real world' spring fishing mode, when you can't always expect conditions to be in your favour.
 

offshore

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I can't claim to be an expert caster, but I think it's partly to do with the quantity of line that he's shooting.

Remember that Ian comes from a traditional speycasting background, and therefore tends to favour longer heads (he was, after all, involved with the very first iteration of Carron lines). In those videos I think he's not generally stripping in more than 4-5 arm-lengths of line between casts. At the risk of stating the obvious, if you want to achieve the same length of cast with a 40' head as with a 60' head, you need to shoot an additional 20' of line into each cast. In order to shoot all that extra line, you have to give it more flight time. And when you're shooting more line the laws of gravity also require you to throw it at a higher angle, so there's sufficient flight time for the cast to unroll before it hits the water. At the opposite extreme, think how low you can aim a cast if you shoot no line at all.

Some people will tell you that when you're casting with an adverse wind, it's advantageous to use a shooting head. IMO the reverse is the case - and I think that most instructors, even those who are strong advocates of shooting heads, would agree. The way to reduce the effect of wind on your cast is to minimise the exposure to it. That means A) reducing the flight time, and B) keeping everything close to the water where the wind will have less effect. Both of those are achieved by reducing the amount of line you shoot.

Ian's background as a gillie means that he's well versed in the art of delivering a fly effectively and economically in all conditions, not just throwing pretty loops on a pond for spectators to admire with little or no wind. As such, he will allow just enough flight time for the cast to unroll, but no more. He's not trying for maximum distance either. Ian can do the tournament casting thing, (he is a past winner of the CLA Game Fair competition, which used to be regarded as the premier speycasting competition), but I think these films show him in more of a 'real world' spring fishing mode, when you can't always expect conditions to be in your favour.
Yes I see what you are saying and thanks for providing your explanation - I think you have probably hit the nail on the head.

I was very keen to improve my casting at one stage, but have just accepted in recent years that I will never spend enough time on the river to get good at it. My typical mistake is to come across the line on my forward stroke, pushing with the right hand and stopping with my rod too low and to the left - which is why I picked up on the horizontal rod position shown in the videos.

I have obtained two Carron jetstream spey lines in recent months, after using heads for probably the last decade. I still own a 15' Loop Classic Spey rod, so I am looking forward to seeing how that combination works.

Nb. Not quite a direct comparison, but Federer has one of the best tennis forehands in the world; but you would never try and teach an average player to use the same technique. I think there could be more money in tennis than casting.
 

offshore

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I still own two Ian Gordon Partridge Lines - but without the original tins.

Another popular line from about the same time was a Jock Monteith (I think) - I never owned one.

His website is now being updated regularly with interesting articles. That is somebody else who must have a lot of experience:

 

charlieH

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Nb. Not quite a direct comparison, but Federer has one of the best tennis forehands in the world; but you would never try and teach an average player to use the same technique. I think there could be more money in tennis than casting.

I don't know much about tennis, but one saying that's applicable to a great many things (and not just sport) is that you've got to learn the rules before you start exploring how and when to break them. It's probably fair to say that Ian G and Roger F both know the rules well enough to be able to break them with confidence!

I think that a common mistake that beginners make is to aim their cast too low - hence the 10.30 target you mention, or, as I remember being told, 'aim at the tops of the trees on the opposite bank'. But if you think about it, you don't actually want your cast to straighten out when the line's still pointing up at 45 degrees to the horizontal; if it were to do so, when gravity has done its thing it would land in a heap. In a perfect world, you want the cast to straighten out an instant before it hits the water, and only just above the surface - no more. That comes down to a combination of the angle of trajectory and also the power applied to the cast. I think that in these films Ian judges that to a T. You might think that his cast is going to crash before the fly turns over, but in fact it does turn over and lands in front of the line every time. I guess that is down to his knowledge of exactly how far he can dial down the angle of aim and the power - and that comes from long experience.
 
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