Giant beavers.

SteveG

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Clueless.
I have to say I disagree as I believe the intention is to influence/create an environment

The reality however is often very different when you try to influence a river it tends to not behave as you would expect, Often changing route totally or at best scouring out the apparently improved pool and dumping its contents in the next pool, I don’t think I’ve ever seen improvement actually work to plan yet 😳
 

pol_angler

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The Tay Board said in a recent report that staff were having to spend more and more time keeping spawning burns clear. I cannot for the life of me see how a beaver dam can help salmonids.
Beaver population grew in Poland from 2300 in 1992 to almost 140000 today. We're yet to see ANY positive effect of that. What we know for sure is that, year on year, there is increasing number of farmers claiming damages and losses.
 

SteveG

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Beaver population grew in Poland from 2300 in 1992 to almost 140000 today. We're yet to see ANY positive effect of that. What we know for sure is that, year on year, there is increasing number of farmers claiming damages and losses.
That’s incredible, is that because there is nothing higher up the food chain to prey on them as there may have been in the past ?

If they get up to that king of numbers round our way , someone better come up with a fly that they will take, I will get my sport from somewhere
 

greenlaner2009

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Beaver population grew in Poland from 2300 in 1992 to almost 140000 today. We're yet to see ANY positive effect of that. What we know for sure is that, year on year, there is increasing number of farmers claiming damages and losses.
Why do so many people feel concern for the farmers the majority of them are massive polluters, and throw all their rubbish in the rivers because they are to greedy to pay to get it disposed of properly. Bad farming practises in my opinion is the biggest problem salmonids face, as farming has intensified fish numbers have fallen. If farmers don't want beavers and wildlife in general remove all their subsidies or at least link subsidies to wildlife improvement.
 

greenlaner2009

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That’s incredible, is that because there is nothing higher up the food chain to prey on them as there may have been in the past ?

If they get up to that king of numbers round our way , someone better come up with a fly that they will take, I will get my sport from somewhere
The predators like wolf and bear are still present in Poland.
 

pol_angler

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That’s incredible, is that because there is nothing higher up the food chain to prey on them as there may have been in the past ?

If they get up to that king of numbers round our way , someone better come up with a fly that they will take, I will get my sport from somewhere

Sadly, there is nothing higher up the food chain to control this growth and hunting (quota permitted) for them is not very attractive due to lack of market for whatever a dead beaver can offer. Hunting itself can also be expensive and usually demands long waiting hours in awful (damp) conditions. Not many takers as you can imagine.

They are also very adaptive species and not that shy. There used to be trips organized to the heart of deep woods to spot them. Today, you can see them daily on the banks of Visula in capitol.
 

pol_angler

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Why do so many people feel concern for the farmers the majority of them are massive polluters, and throw all their rubbish in the rivers because they are to greedy to pay to get it disposed of properly. Bad farming practises in my opinion is the biggest problem salmonids face, as farming has intensified fish numbers have fallen. If farmers don't want beavers and wildlife in general remove all their subsidies or at least link subsidies to wildlife improvement.

Good point. In Poland farmers are paid not to farm. Many resist lol but where there is limited farming activity (land maintenance mainly) flora and fauna booms.
 

SteveG

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I seem to remember years ago they said that on a night out in Nottingham beaver outnumbered men on average of 4 to 1 🤪🤪 think they overcame the problem by overcrowding in the end and the numbers levelled back up 👍
 

goosander

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Why do so many people feel concern for the farmers the majority of them are massive polluters, and throw all their rubbish in the rivers because they are to greedy to pay to get it disposed of properly. Bad farming practises in my opinion is the biggest problem salmonids face, as farming has intensified fish numbers have fallen. If farmers don't want beavers and wildlife in general remove all their subsidies or at least link subsidies to wildlife improvement.
The biggest polluters are us humans. Does not matter were we do not bother with a few exceptions. Younger ones need to leave there partners alone.
What have you got against farmers. Much prefer them to your conservations who have been to uni and know everything.
Lets hope the fishing start and can get away from this toy.
Bob.
 

Roag Fisher

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I have to say I disagree as I believe the intention is to influence/create an environment

The reality however is often very different when you try to influence a river it tends to not behave as you would expect, Often changing route totally or at best scouring out the apparently improved pool and dumping its contents in the next pool, I don’t think I’ve ever seen improvement actually work to plan yet 😳


But rewilding twats know better.....
 
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The biggest polluters are us humans. Does not matter were we do not bother with a few exceptions. Younger ones need to leave there partners alone.
What have you got against farmers. Much prefer them to your conservations who have been to uni and know everything.
Lets hope the fishing start and can get away from this toy.
Bob.

Who are the second biggest?
 

Walleye

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But rewilding twats know better.....
And twats who believe the problems created by over zealous and misguided management of the land can be solved by even more overzealous and misguided management of the land know better do they?
 

Roag Fisher

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And twats who believe the problems created by over zealous and misguided management of the land can be solved by even more overzealous and misguided management of the land know better do they?
Ummmm. I was referring to the interaction of beavers and salmonids. In water, not on land.
On land, rewilders tend to ignore those living and working on the land where their daft introductions take place. So selfish twats would maybe be better?
 

Walleye

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Ummmm. I was referring to the interaction of beavers and salmonids. In water, not on land.
On land, rewilders tend to ignore those living and working on the land where their daft introductions take place. So selfish twats would maybe be better?
Rewilding is about all land management. Beavers are just a very small part of it.
Rewilding can be as basic as no till farming, which is becoming popular in the USA where they are a few decades ahead of us in understanding the long term damage and dependence on fertilisers simply through ploughing the land for monoculture every year.
 

Fons

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Beavers and salmon share our rivers for many centuries . For as far as I know, salmon were once cheap food for poor people; so many they were running up our rivers and that in times beavers were everywhere. Yes; déforestation is a problem today but mostly done for housing, agriculture, mining, heating, roads, railways etc..... So please, do not blame beavers for problems created by humans.
 

Safranfoer

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I struggle with arguments against beavers, because they are a keystone species and were hunted to extinction by man, for their fur. Everything about our landscape and within our landscape is there for a reason. Beavers have a job to do, the fact it doesn't please us is an 'us' problem, not a beaver problem.

I also struggle with arguments for introducing them without also introducing their natural predators, though. I think maybe we're too far gone now. But the problem is most definitely us, NOT them. Hearing people argue against them because it spoils their fishing is no worse than people tarmaccing over their gardens to save mowing it - the arguments are people-centric, not nature-centric. Salmon and beavers very happily co-exist elsewhere, the world over. Dams are negotiated; pools don't seem to struggle. We just prioritise other things, here. I can't think why we'd need to grow crops so close to rivers - I can think of lots of reasons not to, that would benefit the rivers. We are where we are, though.

The answer to it all is obviously to reintroduce wolves... ;-) Don't the Scots refer to the sheep as hill fleas, anyway...? Don't y'all HATE pet cats roaming in your gardens? WOLVES.
 

Safranfoer

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Are we back to "Works in America and Canada so it should work here" ? :)
No. It just DID work here. They weren’t exterminated because they were pests and destroyed our river habitats. We ate them and wore them and waterproofed with them.

It wouldn’t work here because we like to be the ones that determine our rivers’ flow and path. And because we like to grow and build on flood plains and choose where they are. But in a country where the vast majority of land has nothing at all built on it - in England, 2% of land has something on it, the UK as a whole, just over 1%, you could fit all the buildings in the country onto the beach revealed when the tide goes out - in a country like THAT... we could be a leeeetle less heavy handed. At least plan our developments around rivers going forwards, rather than keep trying to bend them to our will.

With wolves, of course. Giant ones, to deal with the giant beavers.
 

Hardyreels

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With wolves, of course. Giant ones, to deal with the giant beavers.

Dire Wolves then, so right back to the King in The North, have they considered a wall then?

I remember when I was young and had never seen a beaver, you just have to get out and about I guess. Here in Alaska there are quite a few but I think the cold keeps them from reaching giant size here.
 

goosander

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Rewilding is about all land management. Beavers are just a very small part of it.
Rewilding can be as basic as no till farming, which is becoming popular in the USA where they are a few decades ahead of us in understanding the long term damage and dependence on fertilisers simply through ploughing the land for monoculture every year.
Look at the damage the American farmers done to there land. Just look up about the dust bowl that happened to them.
Bob.
 

goosander

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Beavers and salmon share our rivers for many centuries . For as far as I know, salmon were once cheap food for poor people; so many they were running up our rivers and that in times beavers were everywhere. Yes; déforestation is a problem today but mostly done for housing, agriculture, mining, heating, roads, railways etc..... So please, do not blame beavers for problems created by humans.
Personally I am not blaming the beavers but the folk that let them out and think that they know everything. There are far more trees in this country now than there has been for many century's. Forestry commissions report. [2020]
Bob.
 
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