Extreme selfishness

Birkin

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Wages go up, prices go up, jobs in hospitality become low paid again in relation to everything else. Wasn’t just our membership of the EU that drove wages down in some sectors. It was our desire to pay less as consumers for the things we enjoy. Glad your granddaughter got a job though, Birkin.
Very much a I'm all right Jack attitude and now that we do not have access to cheap labour from the EU, which I think was the main reason for low wages in some sectors, it may encourage more people into better paid employment.
 

westie4566

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Piglets are getting killed. Brexit is now coming for Babe.
Nice bit of suckling pig for the barbie spit...tasty!

(I don't, nor ever will do the 'Disneyfication' of animals. That's a whole different set of 'problems' and deserves a thread of it's own.)
 

Safranfoer

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Nice bit of suckling pig for the barbie spit...tasty!

(I don't, nor ever will do the 'Disneyfication' of animals. That's a whole different set of 'problems' and deserves a thread of it's own.)
They’re not even dying to save the Christmas pigs in blankets… We can’t eat them - or export them - because they weren’t slaughtered in a way that meets food standards. Oh god what if the next bit of red tape they burn is food standards - we don’t need slaughterfolk, processors and packers if we just shoot animals in the field and stick them for sale on a trestle table by the farm gates… I can actually hear this be defended: we’ve become too bothered about germs and too sentimental about animal welfare. 500 yards from farm to fork and so fresh they’re still covered in their warm own faeces: it doesn’t get better than that.
 

salarchaser

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Wages go up, prices go up, jobs in hospitality become low paid again in relation to everything else. Wasn’t just our membership of the EU that drove wages down in some sectors. It was our desire to pay less as consumers for the things we enjoy. Glad your granddaughter got a job though, Birkin.
You're right.
I'm by no means an economist but inflation has always been an oddity to me.
Would we actually be any worse off if salaries didnt go up?
Its all relative.
 

peterchilton

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They’re not even dying to save the Christmas pigs in blankets… We can’t eat them - or export them - because they weren’t slaughtered in a way that meets food standards. Oh god what if the next bit of red tape they burn is food standards - we don’t need slaughterfolk, processors and packers if we just shoot animals in the field and stick them for sale on a trestle table by the farm gates… I can actually hear this be defended: we’ve become too bothered about germs and too sentimental about animal welfare. 500 yards from farm to fork and so fresh they’re still covered in their warm own faeces: it doesn’t get better than that.
Did you say that you work for the Guardian, if you don't i suggest that you send some of your posts to the editor I'm sure that will manufacture a crisis out of them ;)

You could have that extension built in no time. wasted....
 

Safranfoer

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Did you say that you work for the Guardian, if you don't i suggest that you send some of your posts to the editor I'm sure that will manufacture a crisis out of them ;)

You could have that extension built in no time. wasted....
Told you a million times. I read The Times. That editorially promoted Leave yet manages to see - unlike so so SO many tribal Leave voters - that what is happening is a) actually happening and b) not good enough. Today:

EE83BB7E-7162-4F62-BF89-D498DC0989BF.png
 

Safranfoer

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If you voted for something and it’s not being delivered, shouldn’t you be MORE angry? If I order something online and it turns up badly made and broken, I’m more disappointed than people that didn’t order it, right? Why aren’t the people that ordered a better future for themselves more frustrated that starting off this far off course means we’ll end up miles away from good? For example - we voted to end free movement. We didn’t vote to end anyone entering the country at all, ever. I don’t understand why you wouldn’t issue 100,000 visas for foreign drivers on a 2-year basis and use the time to train our own driver force and improve conditions. As it stands, Boris will be saving Christmas every year to appease ideologues that would rather accept a reduction in standard of living than issues work visas. Ridiculous.
 

Safranfoer

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I do, but as well as others .........
It’s a daft debate. I’m not annoyed because a newspaper has manufactured a problem. I’m annoyed because there are problems that could have been avoided. Food rotting in our fields and pigs being slaughtered that can’t be consumed, while there are gaps on the supermarket shelves, is absolutely ridiculous. I’m 100% behind becoming more resilient and self-sufficient but you don’t achieve that by removing access to skilled labour overnight. Our farmers, growers and producers have been hung out to dry, needlessly. I don’t get why being angry at that is remoaning and sour grapes.
 

ozzyian

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It’s a daft debate. I’m not annoyed because a newspaper has manufactured a problem. I’m annoyed because there are problems that could have been avoided. Food rotting in our fields and pigs being slaughtered that can’t be consumed, while there are gaps on the supermarket shelves, is absolutely ridiculous. I’m 100% behind becoming more resilient and self-sufficient but you don’t achieve that by removing access to skilled labour overnight. Our farmers, growers and producers have been hung out to dry, needlessly. I don’t get why being angry at that is remoaning and sour grapes.
you can make a start by turning your twitter off

:)
 

ozzyian

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Also, possibly find your local piggery and see if they would gift you some little piglets before............you know what.

Then your choice, fatten one up for xmas or just go ahead and bbq them as you see fit.
 

peterchilton

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It’s a daft debate. I’m not annoyed because a newspaper has manufactured a problem. I’m annoyed because there are problems that could have been avoided. Food rotting in our fields and pigs being slaughtered that can’t be consumed, while there are gaps on the supermarket shelves, is absolutely ridiculous. I’m 100% behind becoming more resilient and self-sufficient but you don’t achieve that by removing access to skilled labour overnight. Our farmers, growers and producers have been hung out to dry, needlessly. I don’t get why being angry at that is remoaning and sour grapes.
I thought that a staunch socialist such as yourself would be keen to get the proles out in the fields picking fruit and veg and killing pigs.
 

Birkin

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It’s a daft debate. I’m not annoyed because a newspaper has manufactured a problem. I’m annoyed because there are problems that could have been avoided. Food rotting in our fields and pigs being slaughtered that can’t be consumed, while there are gaps on the supermarket shelves, is absolutely ridiculous. I’m 100% behind becoming more resilient and self-sufficient but you don’t achieve that by removing access to skilled labour overnight. Our farmers, growers and producers have been hung out to dry, needlessly. I don’t get why being angry at that is remoaning and sour grapes.
I think you will find that we are paying far to little for our food compared with the rest of Europe (which I blame on the supermarkets screwing anyone who deals with them) and this has been achieved with the help of cheap labour from the EU.
This article is worth a read as when you get passed the rubbish there are lots of good point as to why we are were we are.
Maybe we can now get back to training and using our own workforce
 

salarchaser

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It’s a daft debate. I’m not annoyed because a newspaper has manufactured a problem. I’m annoyed because there are problems that could have been avoided. Food rotting in our fields and pigs being slaughtered that can’t be consumed, while there are gaps on the supermarket shelves, is absolutely ridiculous. I’m 100% behind becoming more resilient and self-sufficient but you don’t achieve that by removing access to skilled labour overnight. Our farmers, growers and producers have been hung out to dry, needlessly. I don’t get why being angry at that is remoaning and sour grapes.
In a previous life I managed business change.
A large focus was placed on Benefits Realisation.
Its why we change things isnt it? Make things better, add benefits.

There was a differentiation between enabling and realising a benefit.
Implement a new IT system that removes error and increases performance. Wonderful. So long as people know how to and actually use the new system.
Reap the harvest. If they carry on in their old ways, an expensive system with no actual benefits.

Ok, so Brexit had this raft of benefits it was going to bring.
There were risks associated, with liklihoods and impacts. There were benefits enabled (allegedly) to be realised.
Unfortunately, many of the risks weren't managed with no mitigation / avoidance / reduction plans in place and there were few plans for realising the benefits.

So, here we are, brexit (however that was defined, or not) was "got done" (Boris' aim).
We live with the consequences. It might have been a glorious thing. It might have delivered on all its rhetoric.
That would have taken a body capable of implementing a plan (producing a plan to start with would have been nice.

Current government, and opposition parties, are fantasists. Blue sky thinkers. No one with a view on delivery.

Never mind, to quote Birkin, I'm alright Jack.
 

Safranfoer

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I think you will find that we are paying far to little for our food compared with the rest of Europe (which I blame on the supermarkets screwing anyone who deals with them) and this has been achieved with the help of cheap labour from the EU.
This article is worth a read as when you get passed the rubbish there are lots of good point as to why we are were we are.
Maybe we can now get back to training and using our own workforce
It’s not like I disagree with you on the principles of any of that. Just the timing and execution of it all. I’d have trained our domestic workforce before removing the labour, so our domestic food production continued unhindered, especially important during a global pandemic when supply chains are additionally frustrated by labour issues elsewhere. And not because i have the luxury of hindsight - it’s just basic planning, a numbers game. I genuinely don’t think this is radical leftist socialist thinking. It’s just… common sense? Isn’t it?

Problem: we rely too heavily on cheap foreign labour, but don’t have a trained workforce ready to replace them.

Solution: rip out the labour.

I cannot be the only person that sees the issue with that - and I’m the one that gets accused of being tribal. Some of y’all are blind.
 

peterchilton

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Problem, the young workforce is sitting watching large screen tv's and playing x box or having babies to up their benefits and the size of house that they can afford.
 

ozzyian

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Thought this was all about the bog roll hoarders and the same fannies* putting £3.82 worth of fuel in the car?

Brexit was voted for by p!ssed off people, mostly because they saw cheap labour eroding their wants and needs and others who didn't want a bunch of foreigners demanding sovereign primacy.

Conflating these 2 issues is tenuous (but has a little merit) but Remoaners always overdo things. Twitter is the domain of jumpy told you so remoaners - as far as I know that is. Which isn't much when it comes to social media I'll concede because long ago I worked out it was basically shyte and started ignoring it.





* if you are American that's funnier than you think
 

Safranfoer

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I see Sunak says that the shortages, which aren’t happening, will go on for months if not years. Someone should tell our Chancellor to get off Twitter and stop reading The Guardian. The government has fallen into the trap of believing the MSM’s lies. Maybe if we cut his WiFi off, it’ll all go away? He also acknowledged that inflation will leave millions in hardship this winter - but he said this to the Daily Mail, so we probably shouldn’t believe it.
 

Safranfoer

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Thought this was all about the bog roll hoarders and the same fannies* putting £3.82 worth of fuel in the car?

Brexit was voted for by p!ssed off people, mostly because they saw cheap labour eroding their wants and needs and others who didn't want a bunch of foreigners demanding sovereign primacy.

Conflating these 2 issues is tenuous (but has a little merit) but Remoaners always overdo things. Twitter is the domain of jumpy told you so remoaners - as far as I know that is. Which isn't much when it comes to social media I'll concede because long ago I worked out it was basically shyte and started ignoring it.





* if you are American that's funnier than you think
All the issues are linked. It’s almost like the government knew that we had a pre-existing shortage of HGV drivers but then implemented Brexit along an ideological line to make that worse, not better.
 

peterchilton

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Depends if the Mail exercised selective quoting as most if not all Newspapers (and their online presence) do.

The problem with twitter is that is uses algorithms to see what you are most interested in and serves up variations on the information that you are looking at. Not helpful really. To be truly schizophrenic you need two accounts with different stances.
 
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