Electric cars not as great as we are lead to believe

williegunn2

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A motor that can make its own power ? I think that's still within the realms of science fiction at present.

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The laws of physics must have changed then ? You can only get out what you put in minus any losses from friction, heat etc.

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It’s not a new idea. Just found this quickly as im on my way out: https://www.homemade-circuits.com/making-a-self-powered-generator/ The motion of the vehicle itself counts as what is put in.
Anything on changing lead into gold?
 

rawson

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And how are we going to generate all this extra electricity? I like the idea of mini nuclear power stations, based on subsea technology.
 

Andrew B

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It’s REALLY not true re the efficiencies of motors. Batteries are maxed out. Motors are not. The new motors offer 4 times the power and range of Tesla - which means you can reduce the battery down to 25% and still have a very very good car. And then next stage, when you put those motors on the wheel, the efficiencies are even greater as no power is lost in the drivetrain at all, and the need for big batteries reduced further. Next stage after that, the battery will be no bigger than batteries are now, just required for the initial motion. The motors can then create power as they go . Read up on it. My sources are the creator of the motor and the manufacturer that bought the IP. I have one of the motors - it’s tiny and very light. I’ve seen it at work. It’s very very brilliant.
Lol I know this sounds so sexist San, but how on Earth do you know all about cars?
You’re the first person I’ve spoken to that’s heard of a Polestar😂 seriously.
I know he and his boss, both had the choice between a Tesla and the Polestar?

I’m wondering if he’s gonna take it up to Keswick in November as he and his wife have kindly paid for a holiday to celebrate my parents Anniversary.
 

Ricky Salmon

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The UK as a whole contributes 0.5% that's half of one percent of the worlds total pollution. Completely stopping all ICE vehicles and heating appliances will make absolutely NO difference.
There is no "Climate emergency" the world is merely going along as happy as a June bee and the British government are lining up the tax payer to milk them dry for the biggest lie since religion came along, BUT there is a way out of it and that comes from Afghanistan, they hold the richest seams of EV dependant minerals in the world and stand to become one of the wealthiest countries on earth in tem years. THINK ABOUT THAT!!!!!!!! They will get rich and buy a nuclear arsenal. then settle the score with the USA and UK for invading their country, so the banning of petrol and diesel cars will be the least of our worries when we are about to be vaporized, You really have to applaud the ineptitude of the western government's yet again for failing to see what WILL come to pass. Round of applause for our Worzel!!!
Perhaps NOW is the time to make duteronamide legal and get zero polluting hydrogen powered vehicles on the roads.
 

Andrew B

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The UK as a whole contributes 0.5% that's half of one percent of the worlds total pollution. Completely stopping all ICE vehicles and heating appliances will make absolutely NO difference.
There is no "Climate emergency" the world is merely going along as happy as a June bee and the British government are lining up the tax payer to milk them dry for the biggest lie since religion came along, BUT there is a way out of it and that comes from Afghanistan, they hold the richest seams of EV dependant minerals in the world and stand to become one of the wealthiest countries on earth in tem years. THINK ABOUT THAT!!!!!!!! They will get rich and buy a nuclear arsenal. then settle the score with the USA and UK for invading their country, so the banning of petrol and diesel cars will be the least of our worries when we are about to be vaporized, You really have to applaud the ineptitude of the western government's yet again for failing to see what WILL come to pass. Round of applause for our Worzel!!!
Perhaps NOW is the time to make duteronamide legal and get zero polluting hydrogen powered vehicles on the roads.
I’ve been miss understood on here at times over Climate change but dang I think I’ve been miss understanding this whole climate change/Global warming thing myself for years?
I dunno but I’ve always been of the opinion that man has had the capacity to pollute and destroy on a level never previously seen since the industrial revolution started.
So in my simple mind it was a case of we can’t even stop untreated sewage going into our rivers and so all of the super green talk actually means nothing?
I mean what am I doing on here when the sun is gonna burn out in a million years?
 

Andrew B

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Life short, have a beer. Go fishing tomorrow!
Lol that’s the one pal. That quote about “Don’t you know the suns gonna burn out” was from a really great singer, songwriter called Townes Van Zandt. Suffered from Bi polar and deep depression even as a child of a wealthy Oil family. His IQ was supposed to be off the charts and yet when he heard the teacher say “ the sun is gonna burn out in so many millions of years” it was like lightbulb moment for him and so in his head with the sun burning out he just intended to live his life as a continual party “ because the sun was burning out” 😂😂😂
He even shunned his life of wealth and lived on the road with even Bob Dylan seeking him out to find out how he wrote such beautiful but sad songs?
Desperately sad story involving drugs n drink but he obviously decided he wasn’t gonna go along with the psy op.
 

budge

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The UK as a whole contributes 0.5% that's half of one percent of the worlds total pollution. Completely stopping all ICE vehicles and heating appliances will make absolutely NO difference.
There is no "Climate emergency" the world is merely going along as happy as a June bee and the British government are lining up the tax payer to milk them dry for the biggest lie since religion came along, BUT there is a way out of it and that comes from Afghanistan, they hold the richest seams of EV dependant minerals in the world and stand to become one of the wealthiest countries on earth in tem years. THINK ABOUT THAT!!!!!!!! They will get rich and buy a nuclear arsenal. then settle the score with the USA and UK for invading their country, so the banning of petrol and diesel cars will be the least of our worries when we are about to be vaporized, You really have to applaud the ineptitude of the western government's yet again for failing to see what WILL come to pass. Round of applause for our Worzel!!!
Perhaps NOW is the time to make duteronamide legal and get zero polluting hydrogen powered vehicles on the roads.
Well you've certainly sorted that lot out.

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Safranfoer

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Lol I know this sounds so sexist San, but how on Earth do you know all about cars?
You’re the first person I’ve spoken to that’s heard of a Polestar😂 seriously.
I know he and his boss, both had the choice between a Tesla and the Polestar?

I’m wondering if he’s gonna take it up to Keswick in November as he and his wife have kindly paid for a holiday to celebrate my parents Anniversary.
I have clients in automotive… to be clear I don’t know all about cars though. I know a lot about EVs via one client, electric motors via another, and ICE engines and coolant systems via yet another. Anything I’ve had to write in depth about, I have to understand. Ask me about braking systems and I’ve got nothing.
 
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Safranfoer

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The UK is responsible for 1.1% of emissions. Germany, 2%. I don’t know any other stats, but point I’ll make is that if lots of countries reduce them, it will have a big impact. Assuming there is no point in doing anything because it would achieve nothing given our own relatively small contribution misses the point that it’s a global effort. Or should be. But even if China and Russia don’t play ball - everyone else doing something is better than nothing. We can’t rely on fossil fuels forever, regardless of anyone’s thoughts on climate change. They’ll run out.
 

Hoddom

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The UK is responsible for 1.1% of emissions. Germany, 2%. I don’t know any other stats, but point I’ll make is that if lots of countries reduce them, it will have a big impact. Assuming there is no point in doing anything because it would achieve nothing given our own relatively small contribution misses the point that it’s a global effort. Or should be. But even if China and Russia don’t play ball - everyone else doing something is better than nothing. We can’t rely on fossil fuels forever, regardless of anyone’s thoughts on climate change. They’ll run out.
A better way to think about this is proportionate responsibility. the UK is responsible for around 6% of total ghg in the atmosphere, China around 1.2%, of which approx 0.3% is from embedded CO2 ie China producing products that we demand and import.
Also, proportionate to population China and Russia emit vastly less than uk, rest of Europe, US, Canada
so, if we all do our bit, our fair share we should be doing way more than China.
oh, proportionatly, China’s NDC‘s way way out pace the UK’s
 

Safranfoer

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A better way to think about this is proportionate responsibility. the UK is responsible for around 6% of total ghg in the atmosphere, China around 1.2%, of which approx 0.3% is from embedded CO2 ie China producing products that we demand and import.
Also, proportionate to population China and Russia emit vastly less than uk, rest of Europe, US, Canada
so, if we all do our bit, our fair share we should be doing way more than China.
oh, proportionatly, China’s NDC‘s way way out pace the UK’s
I didn’t realise that. How horrifying. It’s good to know though because we can’t control what China do so it’s good that they have a plan. We can control what we do.
 

Hoddom

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I didn’t realise that. How horrifying. It’s good to know though because we can’t control what China do so it’s good that they have a plan. We can control what we do.
To be clear 0.3% relates to ‘our’ as in EU not uk alone. My bas!
 

Hoddom

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Re EV batteries many of the stats re battery life and replacement issues suffer from an exceptionally important error. Whole batteries don’t fail all at once. They are modular. in a cell failure only the failed cell needs replacement - not the whole batt. - as used in much of the sloppy studies modellong
aftersales demand for batteries care is fledgling only, it will of course grow - its a big money maker by 2035
replacing modules, will cut the replacement problems by a factor of hundreds.
 

ozzyian

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A factor of hundreds? All cells fail eventually and randomly, even brand new battery packs have failed or underperforming (failing) cells. How many times does the battery pack need to come out/be serviced and be reinstalled to give that factor :) If the industry is to start treating battery packs like Triggers broom a lot of things are going to have to change.

As it stands batteries are not recycleable and failed cells cannot (at scale) be split from non failed cells to be reused or repurposed. Of course industry will be set up to dismantle and patch up old battery packs but the technology or infrastructure for all this is nowhere to be seen as it stands. It would require for example easy (cost effective) battery removal and re-install to make it viable together with changes to battery architecture to allow reusing part failed packs, that technology is not to be seen at the moment either. The reading I have done on the subject makes me think that modifying battery architecture and cell design will in the interim make them bulkier, less efficient, heavier, more expensive and more environmentally damaging. No manufacturers are showing signs of enabling this change at the moment, though of course that can change given cause. But it's a long term process.

This is not to say of course that recycling/repurposing/servicing of battery packs will not occur of course It will - that's pretty well accepted but its another of the 'futures' not yet accounted for
 

budge

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I'm just wondering if the batteries used in EVs are the same as power tools, phones etc ? Most of these get a memory if they are continually charged without fully discharging them which gradually reduces capacity over time. Will we see cars that are a couple of years old only having half the range they had when new ?

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Safranfoer

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Battery power does drop, yes.

I feel like people should have a little think about all the things that go wrong with ICE vehicles too. Rrrr has already mentioned that he’s not keen because EVs don’t need as much maintenance. They do not. And also remember that this is the start of a new technology. It will ALL get more efficient/more recyclable/cheaper/lighter. It’s about setting us up for a cleaner future. It will power up green energy creation and clean up the air. Starting when we all switch then getting better and better as the years roll on. But there has to be a cut off point where we switch. For me, they’ve accelerated this too much as the infrastructural issues haven’t been solved and the cost hasn’t come down enough yet. But other than that - electric cars are all good. Y’all should be hopping up and down about air sourced heat pumps.
 
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Birkin

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Battery power does drop, yes.

I feel like people should have a little think about all the things that go wrong with ICE vehicles too. Rrrr has already mentioned that he’s not keen because EVs don’t need as much maintenance. They do not. And also remember that this is the start of a new technology. It will ALL get more efficient/more recyclable/cheaper/lighter. It’s about setting us up for a cleaner future. It will power up green energy creation and clean up the air. Starting when we all switch then getting better and better as the years roll on. But there has to be a cut off point where we switch. For me, they’ve accelerated this too much as the infrastructural issues haven’t been solved and the cost hasn’t come down enough yet. But other than that - electric cars are all good. Y’all should be hopping up and down about air sourced heat pumps.
Air source heat pumps will not be enough on their own to give you what you get from a gas boiler. Fact. Ground source heat pumps have a more constant temperature to draw from but would still not produce enough heat for the hot water system.
They would need to be incorporated into a system using solar panels and electric heaters. This would also mean the need for a water storage system which in most new house and older house using a modern condensate gas boiler. Has the property the room to install one?.
So with the extra need for electricity we need a guarenteed sourse of power which would also need a combination of different sources.
Some of the supposed less developed countries are still using and building coal fired power station as we decommission ours.
Before the mines were closed it was estimated that we had about 300 years of supply left. I'm sure that science can come up with a way of burning fossil fuels and filtering out the nasties. This was achieved with the toxic oil by putting it through cleaning plants before it was pumped down to the ports.
 

ozzyian

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Tesla will be hoping so. Their drivetrain warranty replacements had them replacing 1 in 5 cars motors :) :) :) The technology is statistically unreliable at present.
Ice engines probably won't be surpassed in terms of reliability, maybe they will one day be equalled but it's wrong to think evs should inherently be more reliable then combustion cars. There's no logical reason for thinking so. Add in battery problems and........
 

Safranfoer

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7 years ago. There was an issue with Tesla 7 years ago. Most of the replacements were because of a grinding noise, not a failure, and they were replaced without any fuss, multiple times in many cases. Hugely embarrassing, dealt with brilliantly. Just don’t go back in time and buy one of those, because they’ve fixed it now. Also, EVs are not statistically unreliable. The latest figures show they are as reliable. Have you read anything about this since 2015 Ozzy cos things have really moved on, in everything from reliability to manufacturing emissions. Your stats are all v old.

Anyway. It’s a good job no ICE manufacturer using time tested technology has ever had a major recall. No one mention all those Navaras that snap in half and that Nissan ia just refusing to mend. Or the 13 million toyotas recalled last year alone for safety issues.
 

Rennie

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Do you honestly think the Oil and Petrol companies are going to let their cash cow be led to the slaughter house!, with all the power and influence they undoubtably possess?
Pedro.
 

salarchaser

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Still waiting to hear what will replace my 6.6 litre block and 57 gallon tank. Especially given theres no mains electricity on our small holding.
Going to be burning red diesel until I curl my toes up.
 
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